Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 1 FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION 1 - - -2 3 CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING 4 5 6 7 Room TW-C305 8 Federal Communications 9 Commission Building 10 445 12th Street, S.W. 11 Washington, D.C. 12 Friday, January 30, 2009 13 14 The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 15 9:08 a.m., Debra Berlyn, Chair, presiding. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 2 P R O C E E D I N G S 1 WELCOME AND CALL TO ORDER 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: If our CAC members 3 could take your seats, please, we're going to start. 4 Welcome, everyone. Good morning. 5 This is the first meeting of our new old 6 CAC, the old new CAC. The new adventures -- what do 7 we call this, the new adventures of the old CAC? 8 I'd like to welcome all of you. Many of 9 you have sat around this table before just a few 10 short months ago. But we do have a few new folks to 11 welcome. First, Lise Hamlin, welcome. She is our 12 new representative for the Hearing Loss Association 13 of America. Lousy, you want to raise your hand. 14 Thank you for joining us. 15 Jamie Hedlund, I saw you before, Jamie. 16 Jamie is the new representative for Consumer 17 Electronics Association. 18 Irene Leech. Irene, welcome -- is the 19 new representative for Consumer Federation of 20 America. 21 So welcome to all of you, and welcome 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 3 back, everyone else. We have a very full program 1 today, as you can see from the agenda. 2 I also want to thank the National 3 Association of Broadcasters for kicking off our 4 refreshments today, our breakfast and our lunch. We 5 very much appreciate that. 6 Again, we have a full agenda, of course, 7 because the digital transition is foremost in almost 8 all of our minds. We may potentially be just two 9 short weeks away from the transition, a little over 10 two weeks away from the transition, or we may not be 11 just a little over two weeks away from the 12 transition. 13 I just want to let you all know that we 14 know we've seen sort of a ping-pong game going on in 15 the past week in Congress with delaying the 16 transition, and I have asked Scott to check and see 17 if we could have someone here at the FCC update us on 18 what's been happening in Congress, because there has 19 been a lot going on. And some of us have been 20 following that. I know some of us around here have 21 been following that as well, and we might be able to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 4 offer a little tidbit about what we know that has 1 been going on on the Hill. But I thought that might 2 be helpful if we get that updated this morning, so we 3 will be seeing if we can get someone to come and tell 4 us the very latest about what is happening, so that 5 we will get a sense of how likely it is that the 6 transition will be delayed. So we will be talking a 7 little bit more about that. 8 I'm going to turn things over now to 9 Scott Marshall to tell us a little bit about the 10 logistics this morning. 11 MEETING LOGISTICS 12 MR. MARSHALL: Good morning, everyone. 13 Welcome back. This is really a new time for us here 14 at the FCC, as you know. It's also a new time for 15 CAC. This is the fifth meeting of a new term. CAC 16 started in late 2000 and early 2001. Some of you 17 around this table have been with us since day one. 18 Thank you very much, and I also welcome those of you 19 that are new and returning. If we can help with 20 anything, Betty Lewis, my assistant Betty -- if she's 21 in the room, maybe she can identify herself. She's 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 5 not, okay. Well then, just grab me and I'll do 1 whatever it takes. 2 Further, if you're looking for rest rooms 3 and so forth, just out this door to my right, down 4 the short corridor, and then to your left. 5 Again, welcome. If we can do anything to 6 make the meeting more conducive, let us know. 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you, Scott. 8 This is usually the time when we have 9 remarks from our Commissioners. We do know that 10 Chairman Copps is going to be coming down and 11 speaking to us. I just heard from his staff and he 12 will be down at 9:30. And I do believe that 13 Commissioner Adelstein is also going to be coming 14 down and speaking to us today. He may be here before 15 9:30. So this is a time when we kind of juggle. 16 Tony Wilhelm is also supposed to be 17 joining us and he will also be here around 9:30. So 18 as we all know, those of you who have been around the 19 table before, we always do a little bit of a juggle. 20 At one point in the day we are early and on our 21 agenda. Then all of a sudden we are running very 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 6 late on our agenda. 1 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: We could introduce 2 ourselves. 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: That would be a 4 wonderful idea. Thank you, Karen, excellent. We 5 should introduce ourselves. 6 VOICE: We could do it very slowly. 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Or we could do it 8 very quickly, suddenly. 9 So let's introduce ourselves, and I will 10 start. I'm Debra Berlyn and I am chairing the CAC, 11 and I'm representing the DTV Transition Coalition. 12 MS. ROOKER: I'm Shirley Rooker. I'm the 13 President of Call for Action and I'm the Director of 14 the WTOP Radio's Call for Action. 15 MR. ELLIS: I'm Rich Ellis from Verizon. 16 MR. McELDOWNEY: Ken McEldowney from 17 Consumer Action. 18 MR. ISETT: I'm Dan Isett with the 19 Parents Television Council. 20 MR. STEPHENS: I'm Brandon Stephens with 21 the Eastern Band of Cherokee. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 7 MR. BENTON: I'm Charles Benton of the 1 Benton Foundation. 2 MR. ROESCH: I'm Harry Roesch with the 3 Appalachian Regional Commission. 4 MS. DONEGHY: Marti Doneghy, AARP. 5 MR. WILEY: Doug Wiley, National 6 Association of Broadcasters. 7 MS. BOBECK: Ann Bobeck from the National 8 Association of Broadcasters. 9 MR. HEDLUND: Jamie Hedlund, Consumer 10 Electronics Association. 11 MR. RECHENBACH: Jeff Rechenbach of 12 Communications Workers of America. 13 MR. GILLUM: Brad Gillum, Dish Network. 14 MR. CRAIG: Lew Craig, Office of Attorney 15 General, Alaska. 16 MS. PENNINGTON: Brenda Pennington, 17 National Association of State Utility Consumer 18 Advocates. 19 MS. LEECH: Irene Leech, Consumer 20 Federation of America. 21 MS. HEPPNER: Cheryl Heppner, Northern 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 8 Virginia Resource Center for Deaf and Hard of Hearing 1 Persons. 2 MR. STOUT (through interpreter): Hello. 3 I am Claude Stout and I'm with the Deaf and Hard of 4 Hearing Consumer Advocacy Network. 5 MS. HAMLIN: I'm Lousy Hamlin. I'm from 6 the Hearing Loss Association of America. And I would 7 ask that people speak directly into the mike, because8 when you're far away I can't hear you very well. 9 Thank you. 10 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Karen Peltz Strauss, 11 Communications Service for the Deaf. 12 MS. TRISTANI: Good morning. Buenos 13 dias. Happy New Year. I thought I would slow this 14 down. Happy Inaugural. 15 I'm Gloria Tristani. I'm here for the 16 Alliance for Community Media. 17 MS. SANTINI: Good morning, everyone. 18 I'm Nixyvette Santini representing the National 19 Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners. 20 MR. COLE: Good morning. John Cole with 21 the Hawaii Public Utilities Commission. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 9 MR. BRIDGES: Good morning. Eric Bridges 1 with the American Council of the Blind. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you all. I 3 also have a sign-in sheet which I'm going to start 4 passing around as well. 5 I just noticed that Tony Wilhelm walked 6 in and, seeing he is first up on our agenda after the 7 Commissioners' time, as soon as you get coffee, Tony, 8 would you mind starting because Chairman Copps, who 9 is going to talk to us, is running late on his 10 schedule. So if that's possible, it would be great 11 if you could stop. We may have to interrupt you 12 halfway through and then continue after the Chairman. 13 Is there a spot where there's a mike? 14 This would be great, right here, Tony. 15 Thank you. Welcome, Tony. We're 16 thrilled to have you here from NTIA to talk about how 17 the converter box coupon program is going. 18 DISCUSSION REGARDING THE COUPON PROGRAM 19 MR. WILHELM: Well, let me start by 20 saying welcome. Thank you again for the opportunity 21 to come before you. It's been an ongoing 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 10 conversation we've been having for a couple of years 1 about this program. It continues to evolve. 2 One thing I think is important to note is 3 obviously I'm still here. You've seen me before. 4 You'll probably see me again. That's a good thing. 5 I'm one of the two career directors on this program, 6 so myself along with Anita Wahlgren are the two day 7 to day directors. So we know the ins and outs of the 8 program. We know how to get things done. 9 We both report to a senior career person, 10 Dr. Bernadette McGuire Rivera. So there is 11 continuity and commitment to get this thing done. 12 We don't have a political appointee yet 13 in the agency. That's forthcoming. That'll happen 14 very soon. I'm not a spokesperson for the 15 administration, but we are having daily meetings with 16 the White House and with the Chairman and his staff. 17 So there is obviously direction and a commitment to 18 reenergize this program. Frankly, we do need the 19 extension. We do need more money for this program. 20 Those are good things, and we really appreciate the 21 renewed interest of the Chairman and his strong 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 11 involvement in moving this process forward. So 1 that's a very positive development. 2 So again just to repeat that. We have 3 day to day continuity of the program. We have people 4 on the ground that know how to get things done. From 5 the political perspective in terms of getting 6 direction, that direction is we need to extend this 7 program, we need more time to take care of the 8 millions of households that aren't ready for this 9 transition, those folks that haven't gotten their 10 coupons, those folks that are going to have a lot of 11 questions, technical and otherwise, about how to 12 navigate this complex process. Those folks are going 13 to be who we're going to be focusing on in the coming 14 weeks and months. So these are all very good 15 developments. 16 Again, we appreciate the Chairman and his 17 leadership. Day to day we're having very good 18 conversations, coordination, consultation, and I'll 19 talk in a minute about some more detail there, but 20 there's some very strong energy and synergy between 21 NTIA and the FCC in terms of getting this stuff done. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 12 Obviously, our number one priority at 1 NTIA is to get this waiting list liquidated, to get 2 it cleared. As of yesterday we had 3.3 million --3 1.8 million households on this waiting list with 4 requests for about 3.3 million coupons. That's a big 5 list. The good news is about 1.8 million households 6 have actually come off the waiting list since January 7 4th. 8 So you're hearing in the media that the 9 program has run out of money and that's not quite 10 correct. What's happening actually is that we're 11 getting funds back from expiring coupons and those 12 funds are being used to fill new requests. 13 Unfortunately, the demand is outstripping the supply 14 of those recycled coupons and therefore the waiting 15 list is growing even though we are managing to get 16 coupons out on a daily basis. Unfortunately, the 17 waiting list is growing. 18 So obviously we need additional resources 19 to be able to liquidate that waiting list. We can't 20 do it with the existing resources and in fact we're 21 actually beginning to bump up against the funding for 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 13 the program in terms of the potential funds we get 1 back from any and all recycled coupons between now 2 and the end of the program. So we are at a point now 3 where we definitely need assistance. So we're 4 looking very closely at what's going on on the Hill 5 and we need those resources to take care of that 6 waiting list. 7 Let me just give you a brief overview of 8 our consumer education efforts, because again we're 9 stepping up those efforts. The funding is critical, 10 but let me just mention three things that we've been 11 doing. 12 Number one is in November we made two 13 awards to two very capable organizations that have 14 developed very strong partnerships around the 15 country. One is the Leadership Conference on Civil 16 Rights and Education Fund. They have, as of 17 yesterday, they've established 13 technical 18 assistance centers in 7 markets around the country. 19 This is a very good development. These centers will 20 actually assist -- this is the boots on the ground. 21 This is the hands-on assistance that I think we all 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 14 know is necessary to help vulnerable Americans get 1 through this transition by providing help on the 2 ground in terms of not just coupons, but also 3 technical assistance. 4 This is a very positive development. 5 These centers are in communities we need to reach. 6 They're in -- I actually was in Minneapolis a couple 7 weeks ago and visited the Lao center, so it's in the 8 Laotian community, helping Southeast Asian Americans 9 navigate this transition in the languages in which 10 they're comfortable. So they're doing a fantastic 11 job. 12 There's also a group focusing on the 13 Hispanic community in Minneapolis. But again, they 14 have these centers in seven major markets and we can 15 all discuss whether seven is enough. Obviously, 16 there are many markets. We were able to fund seven 17 of those. 18 Then the National Association of Area 19 Agencies on Aging, NAAAA, we provided resources to 20 that organization in November. They're actually 21 operational in 41 states plus the District of 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 15 Columbia, around 111 cities and communities across 1 the country. They're assisting seniors, elderly 2 Americans, with the transition, again providing 3 hands-on assistance through folks like Meals on 4 Wheels as they deliver meals, doing an intake process 5 with consumers to kind of assess their needs and help 6 them kind of end to end in getting this transition 7 taken care of. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Tony, I just wanted 9 to mention to everyone that representatives from LCCR 10 and NAAAA are going to be here later this morning and 11 they're going to tell us a little bit more about 12 their project. 13 MR. WILHELM: Oh, good. I didn't know 14 that. I could have just made a more abbreviated 15 presentation on that. That's fantastic. So you know 16 about those awards. We're very excited to have them 17 be a part of our partnership. 18 Number two, we are having very good 19 conversations with the FCC and the private sector in 20 terms of coordinated call center activities. You 21 know, we have three or more numbers that are out 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 16 there. I think the real thrust is to make sure that 1 those are coordinated. One number is probably better 2 than three, but we're really trying to focus on how 3 to make the process as seamless as possible for 4 consumers, so they're not shuffled across many 5 different organizations trying to get service. So 6 again, we're working very hard on that. 7 We appreciate the private sector coming 8 forward with a very robust call center that they will 9 have in place in early February. You'll probably 10 hear more about that I imagine today, if not from the 11 Chairman, then others, from the representatives. So 12 that's a great development. 13 The FCC has just made an award to IBM, 14 which is great, to beef up their call center, and 15 then our call center is also active. Obviously, in 16 terms of the coupons the goal again is to synchronize 17 those call centers to make that as harmonious an 18 experience as possible for consumers. 19 So that's number two. Number three is we 20 are mapping out all of our consumer education 21 activities with the FCC. They're very active in 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 17 communities across the country, as are we, 1 particularly with our grantees. So we're trying to 2 get the best map possible of where those hands-on, on 3 the ground activities are taking place, and then 4 looking at where the gaps are, so again hopefully 5 there's additional funding and we'll be able to fill 6 those gaps in a timely basis with additional grants 7 to organizations that could make sure every community 8 across this country and household has the opportunity 9 to make this transition effectively. 10 Let me just end there. I know you have a 11 busy agenda and I don't want to get us behind from 12 the get-go. So I'll stop there, Debby, and take 13 questions. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you, Tony. 15 Let me just hold for one minute and 16 consult with Scott on our schedule. Just one second, 17 Tony. We may want to wait and hold for questions. 18 So give me one second. 19 Is that Lauri in the back there? Okay. 20 If you can hold, we may do questions. Do 21 you have some folks who can --22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 18 MR. WILHELM: I'll be here as long as you 1 need me. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I'm sorry to do that 3 to you. If you could wait --4 MR. WILHELM: Sure. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: We have Lauri. I'm 6 sorry, Lauri. Would you mind coming up just for a 7 moment? I know that you can't join us later. Lauri, 8 you're with the office here at the FCC. Why don't 9 you come on here if you don't mind. We'll make this 10 as informal as possible. 11 Lauri is with the FCC's Office of 12 Legislative Affairs. Lauri can't come and join us 13 later, so I wanted to take advantage of her ability 14 to join us right now so that she could give us an 15 update on what's happening with the DTV delay 16 legislation that's on the Hill. 17 So Lauri, if you could give us the 18 latest, because I know there was action last night 19 and even this morning from the President and we want 20 to get the very latest on what's going on. Thank 21 you, Lauri. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 19 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: Sure. First, as you 1 all know, this has been a big back and forth over the 2 last couple weeks. It looks like things are winding 3 down. The Senate did pass by unanimous consent last 4 night the revised version. 5 As you know, the Senate had passed a bill 6 last week and then the House version was different 7 and so there was going to be the need to have the 8 Senate re-pass whatever the House intended to pass. 9 But this week when the revised bill in the House 10 failed to gain a two-thirds majority under the 11 suspension of the rules, that changed things a little 12 bit. So it looks as though the strategy is now that 13 the Senate passed the House amended version last 14 night and then it's my understanding that the House 15 intends to go to the Rules Committee on Tuesday and 16 get a rule for floor debate and have that debate on 17 Wednesday, and most likely try to pass the bill on 18 Wednesday. 19 They will only need a simple majority 20 under the rules that they're going to try to bring it 21 to the floor this time. So that means that they only 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 20 need 218 votes, which they had 258. So it looks as 1 though that, depending upon how the debate goes and 2 how the rule is structured, they likely would have 3 the votes to pass the bill this time around. 4 So the bills are -- I don't know how much 5 you have been following the language of the bills. 6 They didn't change that much from the House -- from 7 the original Senate version to the House amended 8 version. There were some minor modifications to the 9 public safety section and they added a provision for 10 the House to basically deal with a budgetary issue, 11 and so that's why there were differences. 12 But the language pretty well is that the 13 transition will be delayed until June 12th and that 14 the broadcasters would continue to have the 15 flexibility under the third periodic review to 16 terminate the analog as they're able to. Then 17 there's language specific to public safety that would 18 allow public safety entities to utilize their 19 spectrum if it's available to them if the broadcaster 20 terminates early. That's the general gist of it. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you so much, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 21 Lauri. I really appreciate it because that is the 1 latest. Apparently there was also a statement from 2 the President this morning. Doug, you had mentioned 3 that you saw something that the President came out 4 with in support of the delay moving forward; is that 5 right? Thank you. 6 So this now again looks like it's going -7 - we've gone in this peak and valley sort of thing. 8 MS. TRISTANI: If we have time. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: It looks like, 10 from my perspective, I think the next thing I'd like 11 to happen is that the Chairman will walk in. So 12 until the Chairman does, yes, ask a question. 13 MS. TRISTANI: On some details about the 14 bill, if you could give us a few more details about 15 the Senate version, which now is the House version, 16 about this bill, it would be helpful. 17 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: Just go ahead, ask 18 whatever question. What specifics would you like? 19 MS. TRISTANI: Well, you said 20 broadcasters can terminate early if they want. 21 Whatever detail you can give. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 22 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: Again, the rules 1 under the third periodic review that were established 2 by the Media Bureau two years ago, I believe, allow -3 - had a process to allow for broadcasters to 4 terminate early. Generally, these fall into two 5 categories, my understanding. If the broadcaster is 6 operating, going to be operating, the same channel 7 post-transition that it's now operating pre-8 transition, there shouldn't be any interference issue 9 and they can go ahead and notify the Commission to 10 terminate early and do viewer notifications, and 11 that's the process for those stations. 12 In the other context, if a station is 13 moving channels or has other modifications to their 14 post-transition facilities, they would have to get 15 permission from the Commission to terminate early. 16 So an interference analysis would have to be done in 17 order to allow that. 18 Again, it's not the question -- the 19 question isn't that they can't terminate their 20 analog. They can terminate the analog. The question 21 is whether or not they can turn on their new digital. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 23 So that was one of the issues that the bill 1 addresses. 2 There's other provisions in the bill with 3 regards to the converter box program and Tony 4 probably could talk more about those specifically. 5 There's language in there to allow for re-issuance of 6 one coupon per household if the couple expired before 7 it was redeemed, at the request of the -- at the 8 request of the household to NTIA. There's other 9 language in there with regards to extension of the 10 converter box coupon program in light of the 11 extension of the delay bill. 12 The main issue that isn't in the bill, 13 that is on a separate track, is the economic stimulus 14 package, where there is money in there for additional 15 coupons and part of that money is designated to be 16 spent on consumer outreach and call centers. At this 17 point the language doesn't specifically give money to 18 the FCC. All the money -- the report language coming 19 out of the Senate Appropriations Committee provides 20 NTIA with the authority to distribute the funds, I 21 think it was $90 million in that report language, to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 24 distribute the funds to outside groups, including the 1 FCC, for specific outreach purposes and call center 2 purposes. 3 The track of that bill is a separate 4 track, obviously. They have -- the Senate has yet to 5 pass it. The House has passed a different version 6 and they'll have to go to conference. So it's my 7 understanding that the report language with regards 8 to the $650 million for the coupon program may be 9 revised as the process goes forward. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can I possibly 11 suggest that -- I know a number of us probably have 12 copies of this bill. Perhaps we can get a copy of 13 the bill before the day is out, so that everybody 14 could take a copy with them. It's only --15 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: Four pages. How 16 many copies do you need? 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: How many people? 18 Should we suggest 25 or 30? 30. If we could get 30 19 copies, that would be great. 20 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: Sure. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 25 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: Anything else? 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I think that's it. 2 Thank you so much. We really appreciate it, Lauri. 3 Is Tony still with us? Did we lose tony? 4 MR. MARSHALL: He stepped out. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: He stepped out. 6 MR. MARSHALL: I guess we might as well 7 get Tony back. The Chairman must be tied up. 8 Commissioner Adelstein is here, but we were going to 9 hold for the Chairman, or get Tony back. 10 We got Tony back. Sorry, Tony. The 11 Chairman still has not arrived, so we'll start with 12 some Q and A. 13 That was actually helpful to hear because 14 Lauri mentioned the 650 that's in the stimulus bill 15 and the fact that some of that money goes -- she 16 mentioned that $90 million of it goes for outreach, 17 which actually could give money to organizations, but 18 also to the FCC. 19 MR. WILHELM: Correct, correct. That's 20 on the Senate side. Again, we'll see how these 21 things come together, but on the Senate side they 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 26 have $650 million for the coupon program. Obviously, 1 most of that would need to go to get new coupons out 2 the door. $90 million of that would potentially go 3 for consumer education. There's a focus in the 4 Senate version on grants to community organizations, 5 like similar to the LCCI and NAAAA type grants, and 6 then obviously potentially funds going to the FCC, 7 and there will certainly be a need to, with the 8 delay, to have the call centers expanded. So that's 9 a natural place to look in terms of some of those 10 funds potentially going for that purpose. 11 Lauri is correct, there was a provision -12 - the Senate last night voted on the Waxman House 13 bill, which said consumers could, if their coupons 14 had expired, ask for one coupon. I can't remember if 15 it's one coupon for every one that was expired or one 16 per household. 17 MS. HOLY-MAARBJERG: One per household. 18 MR. WILHELM: One per household, okay, 19 which is an opportunity for consumers to come back in 20 and be made whole in terms of that process. 21 Also, first class mail is a provision. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 27 Rather than sending these out standard class mail, 1 they would be sent out first class mail. That would 2 only kick in again if the stimulus were passed and we 3 got the additional resources to do that. So just to 4 clarify, we are continuing to send these out, with 5 the exception of Hawaii, standard class mail. 6 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can I ask a question 7 about that? What happens if this extension passes 8 and there is no more money? 9 MR. WILHELM: Very problematic. We have 10 a situation where -- we have a document on our web 11 site where we basically are telling consumers, 12 obviously if the coupon program is no longer an 13 option, consumers still have options. They're just 14 not potentially as attractive, given the folks who 15 are left to serve have issues with being able to 16 afford this transition. But those options would be 17 to get your hands on a converter box, getting a new 18 digital television, or subscribing to a pay service. 19 Those are the three options consumers have. 20 Consumers can purchase a converter box 21 with or without a coupon, as we all know. I think 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 28 there's a sense from some that you have to have a 1 coupon to purchase a converter box. That's not the 2 case. So a consumer would need to weigh his or her 3 situation, to say if the coupon program is no longer 4 in play what's the most -- what's the best option for 5 my household. 6 Any three of those may be an attractive 7 option. We really can't suggest --8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can I ask a question 9 about the timing of dollars. If the delay bill 10 passes next week and the stimulus bill passes in the 11 Senate and then they have to conference, work out the 12 differences in those two stimulus packages, how long 13 will it take to get more money in the program and 14 what happens? Will you be able to still maintain a 15 waiting list for coupons, and what should all of us 16 who are messaging to consumers do? Should we 17 actually push consumers to make requests for coupons 18 to make sure that consumers get that benefit because 19 we know money will eventual be coming back in the 20 program? How long a delay will there be before you 21 can start shipping coupons out? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 29 MR. WILHELM: As of yesterday, we had 1 requests for 51 million coupons. Currently with our 2 contractor IBM we have a commitment to create a 3 waiting list up to 56.5 million coupons. So that 4 basically gives us 5.5 million more coupons, if you 5 will, that could be placed on that waiting list, 6 which you divide by roughly one and a half to get 7 households. Each household requests about one and a 8 half coupons. So at our current rate, that's 9 probably about another -- I guess it's hard to say 10 whether demand's going to go up, down, stay about the 11 same. 12 We're averaging about 1.5 million coupons 13 requested per week. So we're talking about another 14 month or so, give or take, in terms of maintaining 15 that waiting list. Then we're in constant 16 negotiations, obviously, with IBM. This delay would 17 take us beyond the period of performance with our 18 contractor, so we get into issues that are not 19 trivial just from a contracting perspective. This 20 gets a little tricky. 21 But our goal is to obviously have no 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 30 delay or disruption in the program. So our primary 1 thrust is to make sure we keep that waiting list 2 going and consumers aren't told they can't play any 3 more and then later on we'd have to re-start the 4 program. That's the least desirable of any of the 5 options. So our goal is to maintain that waiting 6 list. 7 We're looking for Presidents Day to have 8 those funds available through the stimulus. We are 9 working with IBM to get those coupons out as quickly 10 as possible. Right now our contract is two to three 11 business weeks to process and then to mail out. It 12 would be first class mail if the stimulus goes 13 through in the current iteration. So we're talking 14 about roughly two to three, four weeks where a 15 consumer actually gets their coupon, although it does 16 give us some flexibility in terms of how to mail them 17 out. First class is probably the most practical 18 option and that would be a several week process for 19 them to get those coupons. 20 Yes, sir? 21 MR. McELDOWNEY: I have two questions. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 31 One is have you done any studies to indicate what 1 portion of the expired coupons are the result of the 2 converter boxes not being available? Then two, do 3 you feel that there are enough low-cost converter 4 boxes currently available in retail outlets to meet 5 this increased demand? 6 MR. WILHELM: On the first question, we 7 did have an issue with spot shortages because of 8 inventory over the summer, which was corrected. Just 9 based on the call center issues that are coming in 10 from consumers, we have not heard most vis a vis lack 11 of availability of boxes. So I would say -- we have 12 not done a study on this, but my guess is that that's 13 not one of the major reasons why these coupons are 14 expiring. 15 Availability is a relative term. We've 16 been telling -- we've been giving folks a list of 17 eight retail locations that are nearby, plus you have 18 the online and phone options. So boxes are always 19 available. It's just a question of if they've gone 20 into a Walmart where they always shop and are they 21 basically saying those boxes aren't available, I'm 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 32 out of luck, or are consumers thinking about, well, 1 maybe those boxes are available at the Radio Shack 2 down the street or maybe I should call a toll-free 3 number and order. 4 So we've been trying to get that message 5 out to consumers. It may not be a natural sort of 6 thing, behavior, in terms of consumers thinking about 7 all the different options that are out there. 8 So we're going to continue to push that 9 message because, as to your second question, there is 10 a potential of a mismatch moving forward between 11 supply and demand in this program. I'd probably 12 defer to anyone here from CEA or the retailers or 13 manufacturers on that front. But with a program 14 that's now going through June, there are potential 15 issues with inventory that have been raised in that 16 match between the availability of boxes and the 17 potential demand from consumers, which continues to 18 be an unknown in terms of the demand that would occur 19 between now and say the end of June in this program. 20 But I think retailers or manufacturers 21 were gearing up for February, so that was the period 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 33 of time in which they were going to have a lot of 1 boxes, and then after that it would be a real 2 tapering off in this program. So really it requires 3 a serious readjustment. So I'd have to defer to 4 retailers on that front. 5 Is anyone here from CEA? 6 MR. HEDLUND: Jamie Hedlund with CEA. As 7 you suggested, the retailers and manufacturers did 8 plan on a February 17 transition. If there is in 9 fact a delay until June, it's hard to say what impact 10 that's going to have on consumer demand. There is a 11 tremendous inventory that retailers are currently 12 carrying, equivalent to about half the total amount 13 of boxes that have been sold to date. It's going to 14 take some time for retailers to work through that 15 inventory, and if and when they do then they'll order 16 again. 17 Our estimates are that from the placement 18 of additional orders or the initial placement of 19 additional orders by retailers, it's going to take 20 20 weeks or longer before new boxes arrive. But it's --21 with the delay, it does have an unknown impact on 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 34 what demand is going to be between now and through 1 June 12th. 2 MR. WILHELM: So to your initial 3 question, Debby, in terms of what should you be doing 4 in terms of the outreach, I think that number one --5 there's the Chairman -- given the goal is to have 6 continuity of program, I would say we still would 7 want people to get on the waiting list, but we'd hope 8 to liquidate that as quickly as possible. 9 Number two, we'd want to be telling 10 consumers in the same communications that they need 11 to check around for these converter boxes. Don't 12 waste gas and drive to a Walmart. Call ahead and 13 make sure they have availability. If not, they need 14 to call other nearby retailers, which they have on 15 the list that we send them, or use the phone or 16 online options. 17 So both of those messages are critical. 18 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Excellent. Thank 19 you, Tony. 20 Will anyone else have any questions for 21 Tony? Do you want him to wait? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 35 (A show of hands.) 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay. Tony, would 2 you mind just staying around? 3 MR. WILHELM: Absolutely. 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: While we wait for 5 the Chairman. Thank you. 6 It is now my great pleasure to introduce 7 Chairman Copps. That has such a nice ring to it. We 8 are so pleased that we're here for our first meeting 9 of our new Consumer Advisory Committee and our new 10 Chairman Copps. And I'm so thrilled that you have 11 taken the time out of your schedule today to come and 12 address us today. It's very important, for us to be 13 talking about the DTV transition, and we've been 14 hearing from Tony and he has told us about the coupon 15 program, and we've heard a little bit about what's 16 going on in Congress. 17 We're going to talk at lunchtime a little 18 bit more about what advice we have for moving forward 19 with the DTV transition and what we all need to do. 20 So we're very much looking forward to 21 your remarks today. So thank you so much for joining 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 36 us. 1 REMARKS OF HON. MICHAEL J. COPPS, ACTING CHAIRMAN, 2 FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION 3 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Great. Thank you very 4 much for having me down and welcome all. I 5 appreciate it. I would have been here sooner and I 6 wanted to be prompt, but I was working along on this 7 for the last couple hours and I thought I was working 8 in a Word document and I was working somewhere else 9 and it didn't save it. So I had to start all over 10 again. 11 I see a lot of old friends around the 12 table. It's always a pleasure for me to come down 13 and talk with this group that devotes so much time 14 and so much energy and so much talent to improving 15 the lot of consumers and improving the lot of all of 16 our citizens. I'm happy to be here in my role as 17 Acting Chairman so I can tell you that for so long as 18 I have anything to say about it the input and the 19 recommendations of our advisory committees are going 20 to get the kind of attention and serious 21 consideration that they deserve. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 37 You folks work long and hard in trying to 1 help us, and I'm sure that sometimes you have 2 wondered whether anyone was really listening. But I 3 want to assure you that we are listening now. It's 4 time to change. It's time for the CAC and for all of 5 the advisory committees of the FCC to be restored to 6 their position as valued and independent counsel on 7 important communications policy issues that we face. 8 We have such a diverse group with us 9 today and I'm pleased to welcome tribal and local 10 government organizations and consumer groups and 11 industry. In particular, I'm pleased to have with us 12 today representatives from LCCR and NAAAA, two 13 organizations that have played and will continue to 14 play prominent roles in providing community-based DTV 15 outreach and assistance to consumers across the16 country. Your efforts are much appreciated and in 17 the coming weeks will be even more vital. 18 I'm happy to see our FCC team here. I 19 hope you know Mike Chessin, who's our Acting Chief of 20 Staff, and we have the added benefit of having the 21 talents of Gary Epstein, who I know many people in 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 38 this room recognize -- he's over there -- who's doing 1 yeoman work on helping us get this effort 2 coordinated, too. 3 I have spoken to this group many times. 4 I have never sugar-coated any of the concerns that I 5 feel. The next week -- the next weeks are going to 6 be extremely difficult, as difficult as any that this 7 Commission or as difficult as millions of consumers 8 have ever faced. That's because we never really dug 9 deep enough to understand all of the consequences 10 that would attend the DTV transition, not just the 11 intended good results, but all the unintended 12 consequences, the ones that usually cause the big 13 problems. 14 It's because we didn't have a well 15 thought out and coordinated and coherent plan to ease 16 the transition, a plan to combine the resources we 17 needed to avoid disruption. I've been pushing for a 18 long time for this kind of coordinated public sector-19 private sector partnership wherein we leverage off of 20 the resources of one another to get a job done that 21 no one sector can do alone. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 39 It's also because we didn't have a sense 1 of real and sufficient urgency until it was too late. 2 I know that many of you around this table 3 shared these concerns. You knew that a patchwork of 4 disjointed efforts was not going to get the job done. 5 You knew that increasing general awareness wasn't 6 enough and that we needed to focus on the more 7 difficult challenges of educating consumers about how 8 the transition affects them personally and what they 9 needed to do to prepare. 10 Unfortunately, things don't look any 11 better now that I've had a chance to look under the 12 hood since becoming Acting Chairman. If anything, 13 they look worse. At this point we will not have, we 14 cannot have, a seamless DTV transition. There is no 15 way to do in 26 days what we should have been laser-16 focused on for 26 months. The time is lost and it's 17 lost at cost, and we cannot make it up. We need to 18 realize this. 19 There's going to be consumer disruption 20 down the road we're on. We need to plan for it. We 21 need to do whatever we can to minimize it, and this 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 40 has been the focus of my one week and one day running 1 this place. 2 I wish we had more time and additional 3 resources to prepare, and maybe we will get them yet. 4 But right now we've got a February 17th date and we 5 need to deploy the resources to deal with that. All 6 I can promise is that we will do everything we can in 7 the next 18 days to make things work at least a 8 little better for consumers and then to deploy what 9 resources are left to clean up after whatever 10 dislocation occurs. 11 Here are a few of the things we are 12 doing. First, we are coordinating much more closely 13 with within the FCC, with NTIA and other entities, 14 with the diverse levels of governments, and with the 15 private sector. Our teams are more tightly organized 16 and interwoven. We're coordinating nonstop and 17 acting with truly admirable dedication and really a 18 high sense of urgency. 19 Second, we've stepped up our efforts to 20 maximize the number of consumers nationwide who will 21 have access to an analog station. That program will 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 41 help consumers who aren't ready on the transition 1 date to understand what happened and how they can go 2 about restoring service. 3 Third, we are developing a plan to 4 improve consumer outreach, coordinating and focusing 5 our field operations, web site and outreach grants on 6 the how-to information that will help consumers 7 prepare for February 17th. I want to thank my friend 8 Commissioner Adelstein, who is here, and his staff 9 for the special efforts that they are making in this 10 regard. 11 Fourth, we've also focused on more 12 tangible consumer support, expanding our capacity to 13 handle consumer questions and identifying potential 14 sources of in-home assistance to those who need it. 15 That of course includes vulnerable populations like 16 seniors, folks with disabilities, and folks for whom 17 English is not their primary language. 18 Fifth, we're spending a lot of time 19 coordinating the multiple private and public sector 20 call centers that are in development into a more 21 unified system. We're trying to give consumers one 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 42 number to call for assistance from the combined 1 resources of the cable and broadcast and satellite 2 industries, as well as NTIA and FCC. In the absence 3 of so many of the things that should have been done, 4 call centers really become the consumer's lifeline. 5 They are just tremendously important getting us 6 through this transition. 7 Here I want to thank Commissioner 8 McDowell and his team for the help, the special help 9 they are giving this effort. 10 Sixth, we have been proactively examining 11 broadcast coverage issues to try to determine which 12 consumers are most at risk of losing reception 13 because of the transition. Let's make sure we all 14 understand this. Some consumers, through no fault of 15 their own, are going to lose one or more channels as 16 a result of the transition. They may pick up other 17 channels that they previously couldn't receive or the 18 current ones may come back as stations deploy 19 distributed transmission systems or make some other 20 arrangements. But on February 18th some homes will 21 not pick up all the stations they are receiving now, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 43 and it won't be just because they haven't got their 1 box hooked up right or the right antenna. 2 All the how-to advice in the world will 3 not help the consumer if the signal doesn't reach 4 them. We have a deep and serious obligation to get 5 this out proactively so that consumers know what's 6 happening and understand what options may be 7 available to them. That we did not understand this 8 better long ago through better analysis and through 9 tests and through trial runs is to me nothing short 10 of mind-boggling. 11 We can't expect people to prepare for 12 what's coming unless we tell them what's coming. 13 Trying to mobilize this kind of nationwide messaging 14 in the 26 days remaining requires everyone working 15 together to develop and produce and disseminate it. 16 We're working hard on this, but at this late date 17 we're going to need a lot of help at the community 18 level. I guess it was Tip O'Neil who said all 19 politics is local, and in many respects this DTV 20 transition is now preeminently local. So we need 21 help from folks like you, businesses, consumer 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 44 groups, service organizations of every stripe, 1 governments at all level, churches, and what an 2 important role churches can play both in getting the 3 word out -- no pun on "Word" -- and getting 4 assistance out to vulnerable populations. 5 One last thing. This committee has 6 repeatedly recommended that the FCC convene a 7 technical working group to address transition closed 8 captioning and video description issues. I believe 9 this is again on your agenda today. I have long 10 supported that proposal, but did not have the ability 11 to act. Now I do, so I am instructing Commission 12 staff to convene the technical working group as soon 13 as possible. 14 The FCC needs to take a leadership role 15 in addressing these problems. I don't believe we can 16 finish this important effort before the transition 17 date. Had we acted when you first made the 18 recommendation, we maybe we could have. But this 19 isn't the time to cast stones back over our shoulder. 20 It's time to look forward and commit ourselves to 21 working together, government, industry, and 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 45 consumers, to resolving these problems. 1 You know, at the end of the day, at the 2 end of the DTV transition, good things do await us: 3 better TV, more free, over the air broadcasting, more 4 channels, which if we have the good sense to utilize 5 them thusly can replenish some of the localism and 6 diversity that we have lost over the last couple of 7 decades, more spectrum for public safety, so that we 8 can hopefully build that nationwide interoperable 9 public safety network to help first providers help us 10 when disasters, natural or manmade, strike again; 11 more spectrum for wireless, more spectrum for 12 broadband so we can take our rightful place at the 13 head of the list of nations in getting this 14 opportunity in creating and getting technology out to 15 all of our citizens. 16 These are the reasons we started down the 17 digital road in the first place. Our shortfalls 18 were: one, so grievously underestimating the effort 19 it would take to make the switchover smoothly; and 20 two, failing to build the kind of truly coordinated 21 and synergistic private-public sector partnership 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 46 that would have allowed us to combine our resources 1 and deploy them toward a consumer-friendly outcome. 2 Many people have worked very, very hard 3 on this transition: industries, broadcasters, non-4 broadcasters too, local, state, and federal 5 government workers, community, religious, civil 6 rights, and many other organizations, our own FCC 7 team. They didn't fail us. We failed them in not 8 mobilizing the kind of effort wherein they could all 9 work together in a truly organized and directed 10 fashion to make for a better and less disruptive 11 transition. 12 But I want to thank them all for the hard 13 work they have already done and for the work that 14 they're going to be called on to do in the next 18 15 days and then in the very important weeks after that. 16 In closing, I would like to thank the 17 members of this outstanding committee for your great 18 efforts to help everyone understand long ago the 19 extent of the problems that we were going to 20 encounter here and for your recommendations, concrete 21 recommendations to do something about them. Now we 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 47 need you, we need this committee, more than ever, 1 first, to meet this clear and present challenge that 2 we face; and then once we get this behind us and 3 moving forward to make sure that every citizen in 4 this great land can partake fully of the wonderful 5 opportunities that 21st century communications are 6 creating. 7 So thank you for signing up to help us. 8 Each of you has busy lives. I know that and you come 9 here at great sacrifice to help us better understand 10 and serve the needs of consumers. I truly appreciate 11 that. I hope you know I'm going to be doing 12 everything I can here at the Commission to make your 13 assistance, your work and your contributions really 14 count in helping the lot of consumers and citizens 15 all. 16 So with that, I'll hush up for a while 17 and I'd like to hear any recommendations and 18 suggestions that you might have, entertain questions. 19 If I can't answer them, some of our folks here will. 20 With that, I'll just open the floor. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you very much, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 48 Chairman. 1 I know Karen has a question. I saw 2 Brandon also has a question. For those of you who 3 are new around the table, we like to raise our cards. 4 I'll start with Brandon because I did see his hand go 5 up first, and his card. Thank you. 6 MR. STEPHENS: Chairman Copps, first of 7 all, I appreciate your time in coming down to talk 8 with us, as always. In the past you have spent time 9 with us and I appreciate that. 10 The question I have is, coming from the 11 rural areas of western North Carolina and also most 12 of Indian country, coming up to this meeting I made a 13 couple of calls, one to several tribes around the 14 country and then also in the region to some of the 15 television stations, to what's happening, from WSB in 16 Atlanta to WATU in eastern Tennessee, WRAL in Raleigh 17 and WOLS in Ashville. 18 Several of them are ready to go with 19 their transition. As a matter of fact, most of them 20 are ready to go on the 17th. As a matter of fact, 21 they're predicating a lot of their work on switching 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 49 over. So that the way to them seems to, from what I 1 gather from them, we're heading down the path. All 2 the work is coming down. 3 But the problem that we have, I learned 4 in some of the rural areas that in the major cities 5 one broadcast center serves a city around the town 6 and most of them don't rely on translators, but in 7 western North Carolina and some of the rural Indian 8 communities we watch television off of translators. 9 The television stations are mostly focusing on, what 10 they're reporting back to me, is they are focusing on 11 -- for instance, WOLS now broadcasts on Channel 13. 12 They're only worried about that main signal. But in 13 my community we watch it off Channel, a translator. 14 On out in the western part of the state they watch it 15 on Channel 8. In the northwestern part of area --16 you get the picture. 17 They're not focusing on all these 18 translators. So we're going dark regardless of 19 whether we have boxes or not, and they don't have any 20 plans to convert those signals. 21 But in rural areas, like what we have, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 50 the only way -- if you don't get an over-the-air 1 broadcast, you're only going to be getting ABC, CBS, 2 NBC, PBS. It's not like the myriad of channels you 3 get in other metropolitan areas where you have the 4 other networks. 5 So my big question here is what can be 6 done to bring that out, because -- I got the 7 converter box coupon for my parents and set them up, 8 but there's no signal coming in. It doesn't matter. 9 These are primary broadcast stations and some of 10 them, we're going to be in the dark. 11 CHAIRMAN COPPS: At this late date, I 12 don't know what to emphasize other than really 13 tremendously stepped up consumer education. It's 14 just not right if people -- we expect people to jump 15 through all these hoops and go out and buy boxes and 16 antennas and everything else, and then there's no 17 signal to draw in. It's just tantamount to 18 dereliction in my mind. 19 So assuming that there's not going to be 20 a lot of fixes for this and work on those 21 translators, assuming that things like distributed 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 51 transmission systems, which we sat on for three years 1 around here before finally getting the darn thing out 2 the door in November, with like four months for 3 everybody to go out in a bad economy and invest money 4 to get all those new systems up -- not going to 5 happen. 6 So I think of course encourage people to 7 make whatever corrections are possible to make 8 between now and February 18th. If we have the luxury 9 of a little more time, maybe in some of these places 10 at least we can make progress. But there is that 11 obligation right now to make sure that consumers 12 understand. 13 That's not good news. I mean, it's kind 14 of hard to ask to ask broadcasters to go out and tell 15 people they're not going to receive your station any 16 more. But it's really essential. I mean, you talk 17 about public interest. If you can't tell the public 18 what's going to happen with their signal, then you're 19 not serving the public interest. So we've got to 20 find a way to do that. 21 I don't know if there's any technical 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 52 answers that Rick or Gary or somebody might want to 1 add to what I've said. 2 MR. CHESSEN: The translator issue is --3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Microphone, please. 4 MR. CHESSEN: I'm just trying to 5 understand the translator issue. The translator is 6 not required, of course, to go digital on February 7 17th. So either they could take the digital signal 8 if they still can receive it and just have that 9 digital to analog converter box there that could then 10 continue to send out the analog signal -- is that all 11 they need, is the digital converter? Or is the 12 signal not reaching the translator any more? 13 MR. STEPHENS: The difference here is 14 that living in -- most of the people here live in 15 flat terrain. We do not. And also, looking at the 16 urban areas, whether they're dealing with mountains 17 like we are or city buildings, that sort of thing. 18 We're not getting a signal and that's why the 19 translators are set up. 20 MR. CHESSEN: Right. 21 MR. STEPHENS: What our television 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 53 stations tell me is they're not -- they're not 1 expecting to cover the same area that they are with 2 their analog signal. So really, once the transition 3 hits, if they don't work on the translators we see 4 them no more if it's just over the air. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can I interrupt for 6 a moment? We have Julius Knapp coming from the OET 7 and maybe we can save our tech questions for him, 8 because we'll have a little more time to talk. 9 MR. STEPHENS: I think the issue has been 10 -- 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: But it is a very 12 good point, an important consumer point for consumers 13 to be aware of. So I appreciate it. 14 MR. STEPHENS: I just have one other 15 quick comment on then I'll hush. I want to say that 16 we did receive some information from Shana Bearhand 17 and from Consumer Affairs that helped us quite a bit. 18 We're getting information out to our communities on 19 the reservation. We've done a pretty good job of 20 getting information to our elderly, our people who 21 still have over-the-air broadcasts. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 54 Also, my other concern too, because I 1 chair it and I can't let this slide by without a 2 chance to talk to the Chairman, is that we do have to 3 -- once this clears, once the transition gets rolling 4 down the path, in rural areas, in tribal areas, we 5 still have to focus on the employment of broadband 6 and fiber optics to our areas. We can't let that go 7 by. 8 As a matter of fact, in my home area, not 9 necessarily on the reservation, but we are deploying 10 fiber optics, and now actually the words of, well, do 11 I get dish, direct, cable television, well, "IP-TV" 12 is beginning to come into our homes, too. So we need 13 to work on that. We've had a recommendation for 14 universal service funds, but two things: appreciate 15 the help from Consumer Affairs; and also, while I'm 16 driving back home, we need broadband in rural areas. 17 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Well, that's kind of 18 what I was talking about at the end of my remarks: 19 once we get beyond this transition, to get our sights 20 on getting the wonders of telecommunications out to 21 all of our people. I've been talking about this for 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 55 years, especially in the context of rural America and 1 Indian country, the inner cities. This is not just 2 feel-good social policy. It's competitive, hard-3 headed, economic, commercial, necessary on many 4 fronts if this country is going to be competitive, 5 and we can't compete unless all of the people have 6 access to those kinds of tools. 7 I am hopeful now, with a new crowd here 8 in town, that we will put a lot of effort into 9 developing a coordinated strategy for broadband and 10 bring the various people in this government with each 11 a little finger in this pie together, just like we 12 should have done with digital TV, get everybody with 13 a piece of the action around the table. 14 You know, there's not unlimited money to 15 solve a problem like this. Hopefully we will get 16 some help out of the stimulus package, but it's 17 really going to come down to public-private 18 partnering and again leveraging off the resources of 19 one another and using whatever mix of credits or tax 20 incentives to reform the universal service system or 21 whatever. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 56 This dialogue is beginning, I think, 1 right now or it should begin right now because we're 2 late to the game and we're still way behind. 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 4 Karen. 5 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Good morning, 6 Chairman Copps. I've waited so long to say that. 7 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Don't get too used to 8 it. 9 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I'm just going to 10 keep saying it for as long as I can. 11 My comments are short. I just want to 12 thank you. We know how long we've waited. It is 13 just a breath of fresh air to have you come here and 14 say the things that you do and to express a 15 commitment and to be able to work with Rick and Gary 16 and Scott and others on your staff. It's just really 17 extraordinary and we're just so looking forward to 18 it. We're already in the planning stages or making 19 suggestions on what the technical group should look 20 like. 21 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Good. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 57 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: In a few weeks 1 consumers will be able to file complaints directly 2 with the FCC for captioning issues, which was not 3 previously possible, thanks to CGB. One of the good 4 things to come out of the prior administration was a 5 revision to these complaint rules and we're hoping 6 that the Commission not only works on developing 7 solutions, but also steps up enforcement where there 8 are violations of existing rules that already require 9 digital captioning. 10 Equally important will be the 11 Commission's work on ensuring the pass-through of 12 video description. Even though it isn't required, it 13 is something that is available by certain stations. 14 We're hoping that in the future it will be required, 15 but that's something else we're looking to the 16 Commission for. 17 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Thank you. You're very 18 kind and generous in your remarks. I think we will 19 have a Commission that's a little bit more aggressive 20 in some of these things, or action-oriented, and the 21 kind of interchange that we've had over the years 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 58 already with you personally and a lot of people at 1 this table needs to be extended now, because when you 2 go into some of these uncharted paths you need to 3 understand that you're not only trying to accomplish 4 good intended consequences, but you want to be sure 5 you understand what the unintended ones are. So this 6 kind of interchange, that's why the advisory 7 committee system is so integral to the operations of 8 the Commission. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: We have several 10 cards still up. If you could -- I don't know how 11 much time you have, but if you could please make your 12 questions very quick questions, rather than long 13 remarks, I would appreciate it. 14 I have Harry and then I have Ken, and 15 then I have two cards over in the corner. And 16 Charles, you have your card up as well. So, Harry. 17 MR. ROESCH: Thank you for your remarks 18 this morning, Commissioner Copps. Great to hear that 19 you're really going to get on the issue of closed 20 captioning. As an adult that's losing hearing, 21 that's not necessarily correctable with hearing 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 59 devices, closed captioning is a great benefit for me. 1 I totally back up Brendon's comments here 2 about the responders that are essential in Appalachia 3 to receive signals. The maps that were just put out 4 by the FCC recently showing the deployment area of 5 both the analog signal and what can be the digital 6 signal in the Appalachian Mountain areas, we know 7 that we're going to lose an awful lot of connectivity 8 on this transition. 9 What can be done on trying to get as much 10 information out as possible? Are the maps that are 11 out right now, is this something that is being 12 promoted very extensively? Is it part of the 13 outreach? Because I think this pictorially puts the 14 issue up there much more directly. 15 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Well, I think so. We 16 try to do that. We've got it up on the web site and 17 all of that. But I think there's a real opportunity 18 here for broadcasters, local entities, to put up to 19 maps and emphasize the coverage of each area. The 20 maps are short of being 100 percent accurate and, you 21 know, I think folks are still working on them to try 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 60 to pinpoint with a little bit more accuracy what the 1 coverage might be. 2 But to the extent that we can get that 3 word out and to local stations and get numbers at 4 local stations that people can call and find out if 5 they're going to lose service ahead of time, I think 6 that's really essential. 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 8 Let's see. I have Ken and then I have 9 Irene and then Charles, and I think we'll have to cut 10 it at that. I thank you. Ken. 11 MR. McELDOWNEY: I certainly welcome the 12 fresh breath of air with your serving as Acting 13 Chair. If in fact the stimulus package does go14 through with additional money for consumer outreach 15 and education, I hope that the FCC staff will meet 16 with either the full CAC or members of the CAC that 17 have been pushing since the early days for sort of a 18 new approach to consumer education and outreach, 19 which we think would be much more effective than 20 certainly some of the things that were done in early 21 DTV transition period. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 61 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Thank you. We'll do 1 that. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Irene. 3 MS. LEECH: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: For those of you who 5 are new in our system here, keep your hand up until 6 you hear that the mike is on. 7 MS. LEECH: Is the mike on? Thank you. 8 This is my first meeting and one of the 9 things that I learned this morning -- I thought I was 10 paying attention to things -- was that some people 11 are not going to be able to get the signal, though 12 they've got the equipment and so forth. I live in 13 southwest Virginia. I guess I can kind of attest to 14 the fact that the message is not getting out as well 15 as it should, because I thought I was paying 16 attention. 17 But I wanted to ask whether you're aware 18 that there is legislation going to pass through 19 Virginia's legislature right now that will be clear 20 that wireless and landline are equivalent services 21 and will thus make it so that in Virginia the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 62 telephone companies will be able to declare that in a 1 competitive situation does exist and not even require 2 that they not be from the same company. So just -- I 3 don't know who needs to know or whatever, but that's 4 something that's just flying in Virginia. 5 CHAIRMAN COPPS: I did not know that and 6 I appreciate your bringing it to our attention. 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Brenda. 8 MS. PENNINGTON: Yes, good morning. 9 Thank you. I think that we've all been energized by 10 your comments and by your commitment to consumers. 11 With respect to the broadband issue, does the 12 Commission continue to move forward with the proposed 13 lifeline pilot program? 14 CHAIRMAN COPPS: For broadband? 15 MS. PENNINGTON: Yes. I think -- I don't 16 see how we have a broadband strategy unless we find a 17 way to use whatever tools are available to us. Right 18 now we have those kind of programs in place and 19 fitting broadband into them is essential, unless the 20 Congress or the administration in their wisdom come 21 up with a different kind of program to reach out and 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 63 achieve ubiquitous broadband deployment. 1 MS. PENNINGTON: Thank you. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Charles, you will 3 round it out this morning. 4 MR. BENTON: Commissioner Copps, we 5 certainly are thrilled with your being here and your 6 saying what you're saying. I was inspired by reading 7 your speech on Monday to the staff in which you 8 stressed the theme of, among many other wonderful 9 things you said, the theme of openness and 10 transparency. 11 I think my frustration certainly on this 12 body has been that we never could get from the FCC 13 what the plan was, what is the plan for the DTV 14 transition. And when you get $20 million from 15 Congress, how are you going to spend it? Who's 16 making those decision? 17 Now we've got the stimulus package 18 potentially for supporting further consumer 19 education. Again, how will these decisions be made? 20 I recognize that our advisory group is an advisory 21 group. We do not have decisionmaking authority of 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 64 any kind. But to get the most out of an advisory 1 group like the CAC, we need to know what the plan is 2 so that we can react, or what the plan might be, what 3 the options are, so that we can be used as a sounding 4 board for brainstorming those options and then give 5 you the best advice that collectively we can bring to 6 bear. 7 So I hope that in the new regime which 8 you are helping in a wonderful way to transition to 9 that these issues of openness and transparency and 10 processes within the FCC will be greatly improved 11 from the standpoint of your advisory group's knowing 12 what the plan is and what the options are before the 13 decisions are made and can give you -- they can 14 really be used as a sounding board for the advice 15 that you need. 16 CHAIRMAN COPPS: Well, that's exactly the 17 approach I would like to see. You shouldn't feel 18 like, the advisory committee shouldn't feel like the 19 Lone Ranger, and people didn't know what the plan was 20 nor how much money was left or how much was spent. 21 Commissioner Adelstein is here. He and 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 65 I, none of the other Commissioners, knew really 1 exactly where we were. We're still trying to get a 2 handle on exactly where we are resourcewise. The 3 more I learn, the weaker the picture becomes. So 4 resources moving ahead is going to be quite a 5 challenge. 6 But yes, that openness that I talked 7 about within the Commission, among Commissioners, 8 between bureaus and Commissioners, and within 9 offices, certainly that kind of openness and 10 transparency applies to our relationship with the 11 outside world. I've tried to work hard on developing 12 relationships during my almost eight years here with 13 nontraditional stakeholders, to get advice in. But 14 we can't expect them to give us the best advice if 15 they don't have some idea of what the resources are, 16 what the plan is, what the strategy is, what the 17 sense of priority is. And we'll endeavor to supply 18 more of that than we have in the past. 19 I thank you very much. I appreciate it. 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you very much, 21 Chairman. We appreciate it. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 66 (Applause.) 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Well, Commissioner 2 Adelstein, we appreciate your patience this morning 3 and thank you so much for coming and joining us. We 4 are fortunate this morning to have two-thirds of our 5 leadership from the FCC here this morning. Welcome 6 and thank you. 7 REMARKS OF HON. JONATHAN S. ADELSTEIN, 8 MEMBER, FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION 9 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Well, it's nice10 to be part of the third that's in the majority for a 11 change. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: That's right. 13 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: And it is a 14 pleasure to hear Commissioner Copps. Every bit as 15 much enthusiasm that you have, I have even more, 16 because I have to work every day here. To see the 17 change happen is profound in more ways than I can 18 say. 19 What he said this morning, I waited 20 because I wanted to hear him first. I think he laid 21 out a very comprehensive vision. I don't want to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 67 repeat. I agree with everything he said, which is an 1 unusual thing for me to say about a Chairman. Not 2 only do I agree with it, but I enthusiastically 3 support it, and I'm overwhelmed with a sense of 4 relief that we finally have somebody in charge who 5 understands the magnitude of the issue before us and 6 has the skills to deal with them and who is doing 7 everything he can in very difficult circumstances to 8 make sure that we tackle it. 9 I think so many things he said that I 10 agree with. I'm not going to repeat them all. But 11 obviously we take your work very seriously. You 12 know, we've been down here repeatedly. A lot of you 13 gave us recommendations on the DTV transition. 14 Again, now they're being implemented. If we had 15 listened to you earlier, if we had done what you 16 asked us to do, if we had worked with you, we 17 wouldn't be where we are today. We'd be a lot 18 further along. 19 I know, Charles, you had a lot to do with 20 this, and your chairmanship on this has been 21 wonderful. We really need now to take your work and 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 68 put it into practice immediately. You asked why 1 don't we ever see the plan, why don't we get more 2 information? Well, because there was no plan. I 3 think you saw the plan, which is a complete lack of 4 it, and now we're seeing the results of a lack of 5 strategic planning. We are sitting here with an 6 extremely short amount of time and an enormous amount 7 to do, an impossible task to do right, as 8 Commissioner Copps said, not because we don't have 9 the abilities or skills or commitment, but because 10 physically to do what needs to be done in the short 11 period of time that we have remaining is a very steep 12 climb indeed. This needed to be done far earlier. 13 Commissioner Copps -- Chairman Copps, as 14 he mentioned, indicated that I'm going to be focusing 15 some on the outreach and I wanted to talk to all of 16 you about that briefly and to focus on that, since he 17 laid out the broader issues. That is something that 18 can't be done overnight. What we need is a field 19 operation nationwide that looks something like a 20 campaign operation and we can't do that with the few 21 days left. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 69 As was clear from the legislative 1 briefing, there are going to be a lot of stations 2 that are transitioning on February 17th. So a lot of 3 places in the country are going and we have to plan 4 as if that's happening on February 17th. I've been 5 to states, I've been to places in West Virginia, I've 6 been to Nevada, other places, they're planning on 7 going if they can, and I understand why they want to 8 do that. We need to be able to support them in the 9 short period that we have to be able to respond. 10 On closed captioning, I just wanted to 11 add that, finally, we've been talking about this for 12 so long and here the Chairman immediately upon his 13 ascension is doing exactly the right thing on that 14 front, and I'll do whatever I can to help him in that 15 regard as well. 16 Just real quickly because I know you're 17 behind schedule and I want to try to get you back on. 18 I want to give you some of the key principles we're 19 thinking about in terms of our outreach approach and 20 get any feedback that you have before we move on. We 21 want to provide effective assistance to consumers 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 70 through the digital transition and for a reasonable 1 period post-transition as well. We want to 2 fundamentally disseminate accurate and timely 3 information and ensure that those in need of 4 information support beyond the services of the 5 integrated call centers are integrated to local 6 sources of assistance. Thus what we need is those 7 boots on the ground we talk about, so when the call 8 center isn't enough what do we have in place to help 9 people on the ground? 10 We need three things. We need assistance 11 centers in high over-the-air DMA states. We need 800 12 assistance where we need it and we need post-13 transition assistance for after the transition, 14 because certainly there's going to be two 15 transitions. There's going to be one on February 16 17th and we need to have some operations ready to go 17 in those states that are going to move; and there's 18 the one after June 12th, which appears to be the 19 likely final date. 20 In terms of assistance centers in the 21 high ATA states, I think we need FCC funding to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 71 grassroots organizations to manage and work with 1 assistance centers, to address concerns, to provide a 2 full range of services from completing coupon 3 applications, for those who need help in terms of a 4 central information distribution point, to recruiting 5 and training volunteers and scheduling in-home 6 support visits for callers that were turned over by 7 the national call center. 8 So we've got a lot of work to be done to 9 make that happen. The handoff has to happen from the 10 call center to the volunteer. We have to have a real 11 seamless operation. We've been calling for one call 12 center for years. I was at CEA two years ago talking 13 about all these things: the need for call centers, 14 the need for field operations. And here we are 18 15 days out and we don't have it in place. There's been 16 a totally inadequate effort to get this done. 17 In the last minutes of the last 18 chairmanship there was major decisions made that we 19 are either bound by or somewhat bound by that don't 20 fit into any plan, because there was no plan. So we 21 have a cleanup operation that's extraordinary to try 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 72 to deal with the mess that we were left, and I can't 1 overemphasize what a mess it is. I think Chairman 2 Copps made that fairly clear. 3 In terms of in-home assistance, we need 4 to work with local voluntary organizations, working 5 with FCC-funded or NTIA-funded grassroots 6 organizations. It looks like we do have the 7 resources now to actually help to fund those. I know 8 that a lot of you who are willing to do the help are 9 operating on a shoestring yourselves and people don't 10 have the extra resources to do this. But we're going 11 to hopefully get some federal funds to help finance 12 those who are willing to get out there and help 13 people that need it. 14 We need to have the goal of getting a 15 home visit within 48 hours of request if we can. I 16 think we need to set ambitious goals. People 17 shouldn't be left without urgently needed television 18 service for a long period of time. 19 We're going to work with local and state 20 broadcaster associations, if possible, to provide 21 state-level referral centers with contact information 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 73 for engineers and others from the local stations that 1 are willing to help out and to help train the people 2 that will do this. 3 And of course, we need to have post-4 transition assistance, as I mentioned, for at least a 5 few weeks after the transition date, to make sure we 6 continue to clean this up. I anticipate that we're 7 going to have a messy situation from the day after 8 each of the transition dates and they will eventually 9 clean themselves up or clear themselves out. The 10 question is how quickly can we clear out that mess, 11 and those who need help, how quickly can we get it to 12 them, how long of a dislocation and disruption are we 13 going to have? 14 I could say a lot more, but I know you're 15 short on time. I just wanted to tell you this is at 16 least how we're initially envisioning the provision 17 of outreach. I wish we had done it a little bit 18 earlier. I wish we had the planning in place now. 19 But we're going to do the best we can in the short 20 period we have. In order to be able to accomplish 21 this on the ground, we're going to need your help 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 74 urgently. This is something that -- we're a small 1 agency here. We've got volunteers working in almost 2 every state and people are out on the ground. But 3 it's you that provide the manpower, the intelligence, 4 the ability to reach people, and we're going to need 5 you and we're going to rely on you like you haven't 6 seen in recent years to actually make this transition 7 as smooth as possible under difficult circumstances. 8 So thanks for having me here. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you very much, 10 Commissioner. 11 I put my card up really fast. I beat you 12 all. I have a question because my head was spinning 13 when you started to talk about the outreach, because 14 I can just remember sitting in very early discussions 15 about the DTV transition and thinking about this and 16 hearing about what Great Britain was doing and some 17 of their early plans and hearing about how they were 18 going door to door to help older Americans with the 19 transition, going into the home and setting up the 20 boxes, and thinking, why aren't we doing that? 21 It sounds like now the thinking is that's 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 75 what we've got to do. Responding within 48 hours to 1 go into somebody's home and helping them, I'm 2 thinking, okay, we're talking about doing it; how are 3 we going to do this and how is this all going to 4 work, and who is actually going to be doing this? 5 Where is this all going to happen in this short 6 period of time? 7 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: That's why we 8 need the extension, for one thing. Certainly it's 9 going to be a real pathwork. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I think we all agree 11 with that. 12 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: On February 13 18th, for those states go it's going to be an 14 enormous patchwork. Some states will be better off. 15 I went to different places. I was in Puerto Rico 16 with Commissioner Santini and we talked about how 17 we're going to get infrastructure there and to help 18 set up an operation where we have a call center and 19 that would facilitate that kind of an operation. 20 To me, in 19 days it's virtually 21 impossible unless there's been major operations 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 76 already. There's a few last minute grants that went 1 out in a real patchwork fashion, which we're still 2 trying to understand why the grants went where they 3 did or how they did. Talk about lack of 4 transparency. I don't understand it. I don't think 5 that, looking at them, it's clear. But it's clear 6 that they're not everywhere. 7 We really appreciate those who stepped 8 up, the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights. Those 9 places that are served are going to be better off, 10 but there's a lot of places that are not going to be 11 served by that. Some states aren't going to have 12 that and some states will be able to have better 13 operations. 14 Everywhere that I went, I had to do it 15 seat of the pants, and in every community we went to 16 we tried to establish it, but it varied from 17 community to community what the local government is 18 willing to do, what local organizations were in 19 place. In Hawaii the ham radio operators were ready 20 to go. In other states they weren't as organized or 21 on top of it, but nobody had contacted them because 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 77 there's no national plan. 1 Now we're going to figure that out. We 2 have a little bit of time to do it with the 3 extension. That's where we need your help. We're 4 kind of building this up from the ground up because, 5 frankly, there was nothing in place except for 6 patchwork efforts. 7 I think broadcasters are very key in all 8 this as well, and the call centers are key to funnel 9 this, it has to be seamlessly, between the call 10 centers and the volunteer operations, so that when 11 the calls come in and they get triaged, when you get 12 to the point of a person who just can't be helped 13 over the phone -- either they have a disability, they 14 might be elderly, they might just be technologically 15 challenged, they can't do it, or they did everything 16 right and they can't figure out where the signal is 17 and for some reason it's not working, and the phone 18 bank doesn't help them -- they have to say if they 19 want help, they have to ask for it: I'm willing to 20 have a volunteer in my home. And we have to have 21 that call center be able to connect with a local 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 78 operation. 1 The question is how much of it can be 2 funded. You can see how much money we get from the 3 stimulus package, from NTIA, to figure out how to get 4 the funds to those in local communities that are 5 willing to do it. As I say, it will vary from 6 community to community on some basis. 7 As Commissioner -- as Chairman Copps 8 said, it's going to be locally based. It does vary 9 in terms of who's on the ground. Some fire 10 departments just aren't willing to do it; some are. 11 Some cities want the city staff to do it; some don't. 12 Some ham radio operators are ready to go; some 13 aren't. 14 We're going to need to work a lot with 15 you, your community base, to find out what works in 16 different communities. I don't think you're going to 17 be able to find a cookie-cutter nationwide approach 18 that works everywhere, but if there are funds it will 19 help everywhere in dealing with all the different 20 manifestations in the communities. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Just one quick 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 79 question. The FCC will be the coordinating agency in 1 all of this? 2 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: It's not clear. 3 I think it depends to some extent on where the 4 stimulus money goes and differences between the House 5 and the Senate bill. If all the money goes to the 6 NTIA and NTIA then can give out money to the other 7 agencies, which that's the way one of the bills is 8 structured, then to some extent it's NTIA's call to 9 decide how they want to do that. 10 I think it's something that, 11 unfortunately, we're going to start working on what 12 the different options are, starting writing them up 13 here at the FCC over the next week or two, and we're 14 going to have to see how the stimulus package goes. 15 We're going to have to coordinate like we never 16 coordinated before with NTIA daily. The distinction 17 between the two agencies is going to, we hope, 18 evaporate. There's been a lack of communication over 19 recent years that has been extraordinary. 20 Now the coordination is daily and hourly 21 to some extent with our staff. We're going to figure 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 80 out where it's most effective. The plan is going to 1 be completely agreed upon, I presume, by the NTIA and 2 the FCC, and how exactly it's going to be executed I 3 think has yet to be determined. 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 5 I have Ken and then Marti, Nixy, and then 6 Harry and Brandon, and -- I'm sorry. But I did see 7 Ken before you. I'll readjust. Ken, go ahead. 8 MR. McELDOWNEY: I am very excited about 9 the potential. I think that one of the things I 10 would really urge you to do, if appropriate I guess, 11 is to try to assume as the stimulus package is passed 12 that as you have some sense of what the FCC's role is 13 going to be, to sort of coin together maybe a small 14 group to brainstorm in terms of what can be done in 15 the next five or six months. 16 I think one of the real issues in the 17 past is, you said, that it was very unclear, not just 18 to us but to you as well, just in terms of what the 19 criteria was for the grants and things like that. 20 While certainly I think the work that's been done 21 with existing grants has been very good, it's not as 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 81 broad as it needs to be. 1 For example, Consumer Action alone works 2 with some 11,000 community groups around the country, 3 most of which serve recent immigrants, and I think 4 that's a very real area that needs a lot of focus. I 5 think that the only way of really working with those 6 groups is working with the agencies that serve them. 7 My concern is that, even with phone 8 numbers being flashed on the screen and things like 9 that, if in fact the consumer can't read what's on 10 the screen or is really unfamiliar even with making 11 toll-free calls, the calls aren't even going to go to 12 the call center. The only way to do that is to 13 educate the community groups in terms of being able 14 to help their clients, if nothing else, to call the 15 call center. 16 But it's a long-term process and I think 17 it's going to have to be done certainly on a crisis 18 stage right now. I think the sooner that everything 19 gets started the better, because the ramp-up period 20 is going to be considerable. 21 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: We need to work 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 82 on the training and the dissemination of this 1 information. The outreach is enormous that remains 2 to be done. There's no other aspect of the 3 transition that requires your help more than this. 4 So I think we should get together. I hope you give 5 us some advice today on cogitating on what it is that 6 we need to be doing. I'm happy to talk next week if 7 you want to get a subcommittee together, or anybody 8 that's interested, everybody if you want, we can do 9 it by phone and think about what needs to be done, I 10 think immediately, urgently, to put a plan in place. 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you, thank 12 you. 13 Karen, real quick. 14 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I just couldn't not 15 thank you as well because you've been so incredibly 16 supportive of us. But I think it's very important to 17 publicly say that you have been a friend to the 18 disability community for the longest time and we just 19 really appreciate everything that you've done and 20 look forward to seeing the FCC's actual plan of 21 attack. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 83 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thanks, Karen. 1 Marti. 2 MS. DONEGHY: Yes. Thank you, 3 Commissioner. I'm excited about your remarks, 4 especially the sound of boots on the ground in 5 getting to a plan of action. I'm curious, not 6 knowing all the details -- I guess nobody does --7 about how all this is going to happen. 8 Speaking for myself personally and not 9 AARP, but as a consumer and a concerned consumer, I 10 see this really as a national crisis, almost a 11 homeland security situation. I'm wondering, has 12 there already been some effort to -- you talked about 13 fire departments who may not be or want to be 14 involved as a participant. Has there been any effort 15 to talk to the administration about bringing in FEMA 16 or one of the homeland security agencies, not letting 17 them direct it, but training whatever auxiliaries 18 they have, whatever they would do in a natural 19 disaster or a national disaster, because I really see 20 this approaching this, quite frankly, if people can't 21 get basic communications, especially the vulnerable 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 84 populations that we're talking about that could be 1 indisposed. 2 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Well, there's 3 been a lot of creative thinking. A lot of different 4 options are being looked at. Generally speaking, the 5 hope is that we can mobilize resources that already 6 exist on the ground to do this, but the community 7 organizations, local governments. Some are already 8 stepping up to the plate. There are some good 9 examples of efforts that have been done. 10 In Wilmington, North Carolina, where we 11 had a small group, we had staff in the fire 12 department getting paid to pick people up. It was 13 all worked out. It happened for a city that was 14 maybe one-fifth of one percent of all that we need to 15 do. We could handle it on that scale. So the 16 question is how do you scale that nationwide, and do 17 you use fire departments everywhere, or what are the 18 emergency resources that we need? What are the 19 options around the table? So think about that. 20 One of the problems I talked about quite 21 a while ago is having an inter-agency task force 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 85 which would look at all of the different agencies of 1 government and how can they help. There were a 2 couple of meetings that took place, but that never 3 happened. That happened during Y2K and I was hoping 4 that that's going to be happening now on a formal or 5 informal basis and we're really going to look at all 6 of the government. 7 This is something that's of concern at 8 the very White House level, which is something you 9 didn't have before. So that ability to mobilize 10 agencies across the board is something that we now 11 have, which we should have had a couple years ago if 12 we had a plan in place. But that's something to 13 think about. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Nixy. 15 MS. SANTINI: Good morning, Commissioner. 16 It's great to see you again. 17 From Gloria that had to leave for a 18 moment, she wanted me to tell you thank you for all 19 the outreach efforts to the Latino community. And 20 for my part, I want to thank you for your outreach 21 efforts with Puerto Rico. Commissioner Adelstein 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 86 went to Puerto Rico and he not only went to Puerto 1 Rico, but he gave a speech in Spanish, which is quite 2 amazing, and he was very sensitive with the people 3 who understand English, but not entirely. Not 4 everyone understands English perfectly. So we're 5 very grateful for your sensitiveness with our 6 community. 7 Also on the technical issue, I wanted to 8 ask you if there's any chance that the call center 9 can be used to identify also those areas where 10 coverage is going to become an issue, the footprint, 11 the digital footprint becomes an issue; and also if 12 there is any way that FCC can start planning ahead in 13 those programmatic areas where topography just 14 doesn't help or buildings don't help, so that they 15 can start working with broadcasters to improve the 16 signal in those areas for the sake of public safety 17 in those communities? 18 Is there any way we can do that? I know 19 we have already some projected footprints for the 20 digital signal, but I think if we get the June 12th 21 date for sure then we have some time to plan ahead 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 87 and to start assessing those problems before they 1 become a real problem. 2 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: (Speaks in 3 Spanish.) Puerto Rico, I really did enjoy that trip 4 tremendously. We learned a lot of issues. It's 50 5 percent over the air. That's a place where the delay 6 is so urgently needed. I'm told that we're going to 7 get that for Puerto Rico and everywhere else that 8 needs it. 9 As far as the information, one of the 10 problems with getting localized information out is 11 that it's kind of difficult to do on a national 12 basis. I've thought about this. We've got those 13 maps and somebody calls in and says: I live in this 14 part of town, I live this side of the hill; why 15 aren't I getting Channel 4? It's very difficult, if 16 not impossible, to train somebody who's answering 17 calls nationwide, and maybe not cost effective, to 18 answer those kind of questions. 19 So one of the issues for the call centers 20 that they're thinking about is how do you hand off 21 that kind of call to somebody who's more localized. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 88 One of the reasons that we want local call centers 1 is, when I came down to Puerto Rico and begged 2 everybody and begged the commission down there to 3 have a local call center it was for just that reason. 4 First of all, I didn't know if we would have a 5 national one. I thought we were headed down over the 6 cliff all at once on February 17th and we had to 7 prepare for that, and we still are in a lot of 8 places. 9 But I said, if you don't have your own 10 call center don't count on us, which I think may have 11 been accurate. Now maybe we can get it in better 12 shape. But now we need to transform those local call 13 centers into those that will handle the localized 14 questions that otherwise can't be handled by the 15 national call center, so that if somebody has a 16 specific question about lack of coverage we have to 17 have a system in place in which we can hand those 18 calls off at least to those localities that have 19 them. Not every locality will have them, but I want 20 to work with NAB in particular to have those local 21 call centers up. And people are being very helpful 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 89 as well in setting up call centers so we can really1 get localized information out. 2 See, those maps are fairly useless to 3 most people. Nobody's going to go on the web and 4 look at the map and say, well, I live here, and I 5 look at this map before and after. I mean, forget 6 about it. For your average consumer -- for a bunch 7 of engineers, they might be able to figure it out. 8 But for most people, if the broadcasters don't 9 translate that and say, you know, in this part of 10 town you might have some issues with this channel --11 I really hope NAB will work with the local 12 broadcasters to do that, because that's how we're 13 going to inform people about that. And that way 14 we'll have a lot fewer questions. 15 A lot of the calls we're going to get 16 are: Why can't I get Channel 4 in this part of town? 17 The answer is because you live in that side of the 18 hill and the broadcast tower is over here and you're 19 not going to get it over the air, or you need to get 20 a stronger antenna because of that. 21 But working with people in advance will 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 90 help us to avoid a problem afterwards. A lot of 1 parts of Puerto Rico are very much in those mountains 2 in the middle and those are where people are going to 3 have a lot of problems in the digital transition. 4 Somehow, the more we can get that word out in advance 5 so people know what to expect, the less of the crush 6 of calls that we're going to get that have to be 7 moved to local call centers so the questions can be 8 answered. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 10 Okay, Harry, Brendon, and Brenda is who I 11 have, and then we're going to have to cut off 12 questions. Harry. 13 MR. ROESCH: It's nice to see a breath of 14 fresh air coming through here. The enlightenment we 15 hope will be positive. 16 A couple questions. There's a lot of 17 staff here at the FCC that were detailed to 18 Wilmington to help in that transition. I have not 19 seen any report out of what they discovered through 20 the process, what they learned, what issues that they 21 could bring forth to be able to talk about for the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 91 FCC. If we could see something in a press release or 1 an outreach-type document from the FCC that would 2 say, these are the issues that we learned in 3 Wilmington, we, our people around this table, we can 4 push this information out and hopefully it will get 5 into the hands of the broadcasters and will help them 6 to figure out how to do the transition. 7 So I have not seen anything that's been 8 put out as a report. Have I missed something? 9 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: I don't think. 10 Cathy Seidel is here. I think she can explain a 11 little about what exactly the lessons were. I don't 12 believe we have a document per se, but various people 13 have talked about it at different points in different 14 speeches. Hawaii also went January 15th and there 15 are some lessons there as well that could be easily 16 promulgated. And then there's going to be a huge 17 learning experience on February 17th from those 18 broadcasters that go forward, which is going to be 19 the biggest experiment of all, that we need to 20 quickly put in place the lessons of that so we can 21 apply them to the new date, assuming one comes. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 92 But that would be helpful. Let's talk to 1 Cathy about that. 2 MR. ROESCH: That would be helpful to all 3 of us. 4 The other thing is, you've talked about 5 the national call centers that are functioning here 6 through NTIA, FCC, etcetera, and we're hoping that 7 you can also implement local call centers to deal 8 with regional issues. Is there a complete telephone 9 directory, so to speak, of the 1-800 numbers that we 10 could identify to our respective regions, of what's 11 available in Charlestown, West Virginia, Winston-12 Salem, Ashville, North Carolina, to help people? 13 If we can put information out from the 14 Appalachian Commission, we can say that this call 15 center may be the more direct one for you to contact 16 rather than dealing with Washington because they 17 can't deal with your issues, you're just on the other 18 side of the mountain. 19 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: We're working on 20 that right now. Once we get this all together, we 21 will definitely have that out there. There's an 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 93 array of different little numbers here and there. 1 Some local ones are set up, some aren't. So we will 2 make sure that that is done. 3 MR. ROESCH: Thank you very much. 4 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: I don't know 5 who's next. 6 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I'm sorry. Brandon. 7 MR. STEPHENS: Commissioner Adelstein, 8 first of all -- I think we commented on this once one 9 time before. I only have one comment for you. 10 Again, I testified to a subcommittee on broadband. I 11 just ask simply, after all this is getting rolling on 12 the digital transition, do not forget broadband in 13 the rural areas. 14 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Believe me, I 15 never do. It's been a priority since I got here and 16 we're going to get it done. We can chew gum and walk 17 at the same time. We're can do broadband and DTV, I 18 assure you. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Brenda. 20 MS. PENNINGTON: Thank you, Commissioner. 21 I'm particularly enthused about your commitment to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 94 consumer education. I represent NASUCA on this 1 committee, but day to day I work for the Office of 2 the People's Counsel in D.C. While DTV is not 3 specifically in our purview, we certainly have been 4 out educating community groups about the transition, 5 particularly about the delay. 6 My question is, if and when the DTV 7 transition delay bill is passed, will we be able to 8 find out which states are going to transition on the 9 original February 17th date? 10 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: We will let you 11 know as soon as we know. There's some role in the 12 legislation for the FCC and there's some ability of 13 broadcasters to decide unilaterally. I wonder if any 14 of you has any response to that as well? Are you 15 planning on helping us get up to speed, and have you 16 talked to your local broadcasters about what their 17 plans are? 18 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Good question. 19 MR. WILEY: We certainly pledge to work 20 with you on that. It's sort of fluid at this point. 21 I don't think even some of the broadcasters know 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 95 who's going to go early and who isn't. So we'll have1 to call it a work in progress and pledge to work with 2 everybody. 3 My channel would like to say something. 4 MS. BOBECK: Just to add we really 5 appreciate the working relationship we've had with 6 all the staff. Particularly the Media Bureau has 7 been fantastic in coordinating. I know it's 8 difficult, planning on two contingencies. So I think 9 an effort for all of us to coordinate and to make it 10 broadcaster-friendly on how to coordinate on a market 11 basis if we have a June date instead of a February 12 date, and also make it consumer-friendly so that you 13 may know in a given area -- maybe we can create an 14 online map so you can click on it and say, I'm in 15 Virginia, who's on, who's transitioning, where, when, 16 and how? 17 So I think it behooves us all to get 18 together and figure out, how does it make sense from 19 a consumer basis to market that transition. 20 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: We're willing to 21 work with you closely on that, because there's going 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 96 to be a lot of confusion. People think, well, 1 there's been a delay so I can wait right now. In 2 fact, a lot of states are ready to go and that has 3 got to be communicated really clearly. We're doing 4 everything we can to get that out. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I think that's an 6 excellent question, and I think it brings up 7 additional questions that I think we will all have. 8 Charles, you may have a follow-up, but can I ask that 9 we bring that subject out because I think we do need 10 further discussion on this issue of when various 11 stations may go early and what that means in each 12 individual market. It will be a question that we 13 will want to discuss further. 14 Charles, do you want to follow up 15 quickly? 16 MR. BENTON: Madam Chairman, I want to 17 follow up on that wonderful point you just made, 18 because it seems to me that compared to the problem 19 we're just a very tiny little entity. So the 20 question is what can we do to really be effective to 21 help on this in the remaining time. I think the idea 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 97 that surfaced in the last five minutes of looking at 1 the 2-17 -- we're helping the NAB, but this might be 2 a thing that we could rally around as a team, to look 3 at what lessons are learned about this on the 2-17 4 that we should apply to the 6-12 deadline, on the 5 assumption that Congress is going to make that 6 decision, which looks as though it will happen. 7 That might be a real point of focus for 8 us as an advisory committee, to really zero in on 9 that and see how as a team we might work towards 10 understanding the lessons of 2-17 and try to apply 11 those lessons to 6-12. Just my suggestion. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Very good. Thank 13 you. 14 Thank you so much, Commissioner, for 15 joining us this morning. 16 COMMISSIONER ADELSTEIN: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: We appreciate your 18 remarks. 19 (Applause.) 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: May I indulge your 21 patience for just two minutes. Tony, he has been so 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 98 patient. He has been here since 9:15. He asked if 1 he could just come back for a few minutes, and then 2 we are going to take a quick break. So please don't 3 take your own break right now. Just listen to Tony. 4 He wants to be here for no more than what, ten 5 minutes, five, ten minutes maximum. Then we're going 6 to take a quick break, a short break, and then please 7 come back for Cathy Seidel's remarks. 8 MR. WILHELM: Certainly I'll take any 9 questions, but I did want to correct something I said 10 earlier, which is in the Senate bill passed last 11 night there is an opportunity for each household to 12 request a coupon for each coupon that had expired. 13 So it can get up to two per household in the Senate 14 bill. I was looking at it on my Blackberry. So 15 that's something I misstated earlier. I apologize 16 for that. 17 Secondly, I do want to mention, Ken's 18 point about making recommendations after the stimulus 19 bill passes, that's too late. We need your 20 recommendations yesterday, basically. I mean, if 21 we're going to have -- when our leadership's going to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 99 come in next week, we plan to have recommendations to 1 them to use these funds. So we have to plan last 2 week to use these funds. We're operating in real 3 time here. This is something that's going to happen 4 so fast. 5 For those of you who don't know 6 government, to get proposals bid, whether it's 7 contracts or grants, we really move mountains. 8 Cathy's in the room here. Whether it's the contracts 9 the FCC did or the grants that NTIA made, these 10 things usually take years to pull off. We've done 11 these in weeks and months. 12 Then when you do that, you start to 13 really -- there was a whole issue on this 14 administration, rightly so, on accountability, 15 transparency. Everybody wants to compete everything. 16 That's obviously critically important. We also have 17 a huge time constraint here in terms of when this 18 thing's going to happen, when we need to provide 19 funds to communities. We need to do that 20 immediately. 21 So how do we do that? Well, the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 100 government only has so many options at that point in 1 time. So we need your ideas today. If again we had 2 to do this noncompetitively like we did last time, we 3 would basically be sitting waiting for unsolicited 4 proposals, which is how we did that last time with 5 LCCR. So you can't wait for us to come to you 6 necessarily. You should assume that these moneys are 7 going to be available, and as someone who's familiar 8 with the nonprofit world -- I've been there; I've 9 been in all of your shoes -- you have to take a risk, 10 assuming that some funds will be available, and 11 develop ideas or proposals. It's that preparation 12 that's going to lead to opportunities for you all, 13 not to wait and see what happens. It's going to be 14 too late if you wait until the end of February or 15 early March. All those decisions will have been 16 made. 17 I did want to underscore the 18 Commissioner's point about they are meeting daily 19 again, the FCC and the White House. We do see our 20 operations moving forward as being as seamless as 21 possible with the FCC. We'll be making these 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 101 decisions, the leadership will be making these 1 decisions here jointly. We want to figure out the 2 best way to use these if we get $90 million. 3 So Ken, I want your ideas by close of 4 business today. 5 (Laughter.) 6 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Tony, I thank you. 7 I thank you for your remarks. 8 Can I just say one thing, because I'm 9 just -- we've all been working on these issues for a 10 long time, and we all probably don't want to repeat 11 the same things we've said for so long. While we are 12 here, it's a new day and we've got this opportunity 13 and we may have an opportunity to do this for four 14 more months and no longer. We all know, right? No 15 longer than four more months. 16 Do we have a sense that this time around 17 there will be a coordinated effort? Because we've 18 seen that there may be more money in here and there 19 may be more money that could very quickly need to go. 20 We really need to have a coordinated effort. That is 21 key, that we really need to make sure that there's 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 102 sort of someone who's holding this together. 1 MR. WILHELM: The answer to that is yes. 2 You've heard that from the Chairman, you've heard it 3 from the Commissioner, you've heard it from me. And 4 we're doing that in practice. Every day we have 5 meetings and the Chairman is on those meetings. 6 That's pretty remarkable. He's on a daily meeting --7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: That's great. 8 MR. WILHELM: -- moving this thing 9 forward. And the White House is on these meetings 10 every day. 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Who is coordinating 12 from the White House? 13 MR. WILHELM: You can't get a better 14 commitment than that. 15 Susan Crawford. 16 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Susan Crawford. 17 MR. WILHELM: So we have the highest 18 commitment. The answer is yes. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Excellent. 20 Thank you so much, Tony. I appreciate 21 it. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 103 We're going to take a very short break. 1 Please, if everyone could be back in their seats at 2 10 after 11:00. It's 11:00 o'clock now, so 10 past 3 11:00 be back. 4 Yes, Ken? 5 MR. McELDOWNEY: Just a really quick 6 thing. Could you try to set up a conference call for 7 folks on the CAC who want to be engaged with the 8 Commission staff in terms of outreach and education? 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Absolutely, yes. 10 MR. McELDOWNEY: I hear it had to be 11 yesterday. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: What's that? 13 Yesterday? 14 MR. McELDOWNEY: I hear it had to be 15 yesterday. 16 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes, you missed it, 17 Ken. We did it yesterday. Sorry. 18 (Laughter.) 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes, absolutely. 20 We'll figure this all out, yesterday, today, 21 whatever. But before we all leave today we'll figure 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 104 this out. Thank you. 1 Oh, it looks like no one wants a break, 2 but I do. I have the Senate legislation, the 3 legislation to be taken up by the House next week, so 4 I'll pass this out as well. It's S. 352. Tony's 5 right. I was very surprised. It's something that's 6 a little different than what I thought, that they can 7 get one coupon for every coupon that expired per 8 household. So that means it is -- that's amazing. I 9 don't know how they're paying for all this, but I 10 guess out of that $650 billion. 11 (Recess from 11:01 a.m. to 11:14 a.m.) 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Let's do a quick 13 check of our agenda, everyone. We are a little off, 14 but you know how we always catch up. We had an 15 excellent discussion. We've actually probably done 16 some of the discussion that we would have during this 17 particular hour that we've all set aside for our 18 discussion with Cathy, so we probably won't need that 19 much time, 45 minutes. 20 So we will hopefully catch up a little 21 bit. We want to make enough time for our working 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 105 group to have our meeting, which will be after we all 1 pick up our lunches. 2 So without further ado, we will now start 3 our session with Cathy Seidel, who, as you all know 4 and have heard many times during our sessions before, 5 is the Bureau Chief for Consumer and Governmental 6 Affairs, and she's going to fill us in on what they 7 have been working on with the DTV transition. We 8 want to welcome you. Thank you very much, Cathy. 9 DTV TRANSITION UPDATE 10 MS. SEIDEL: Thank you, everybody. I 11 know your time here is precious and I know you've 12 heard a lot already, that you've heard the Chairman 13 and the Commissioner say what I would otherwise say. 14 So my remarks will be fairly brief. 15 I did want to mention a couple things, 16 though. First of all, I think it goes without saying 17 -- and I think each of you understood this, too, but 18 I do think time is of the essence to the extent 19 people have suggestions for things that should and 20 could be done with respect to DTV outreach. I know 21 that to the extent that additional funding comes 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 106 through NTIA or the FCC, that's particularly 1 important. But it's equally important that if 2 additional funding is not made available or even if 3 it is, what sorts of things could we and other people 4 out there be doing to try to help ensure that that 5 last piece of this process, whether it be on February 6 18 or on June 13, occurs to help those who need help 7 in installing their box or getting reception or 8 figuring out why they can't get reception. 9 I think to the extent money is made 10 available, that really helps a great deal, even if it 11 doesn't -- throughout the country, we have over 3,000 12 counties and we have over 50 states. We have so many 13 local communities out there that are going to need a 14 local presence to help them. 15 We're doing what we can -- the call 16 centers, you heard the Chairman and the Commissioner 17 mention -- to have the numbers for people to call. 18 We're looking at ways we can enhance the information 19 we're making available to the agents who are 20 answering the phone, so that we can give them at 21 least basic information to the extent we know it, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 107 about what the coverage may be in their area. And 1 then, as the Commissioner and the Chairman said, 2 having a directory for the agents to use that will 3 then direct them to the different local communities, 4 community-based organizations that we're aware of, 5 either because of the grassroots contracts that the 6 FCC awarded or the NTIA grants that result in a local 7 presence. 8 Then of course we'll be working with the 9 broadcasters to see about a directory that we can put 10 the numbers for consumers to call to find out about 11 particular technical challenges or questions they 12 might have about coverage or signal reception. The 13 broadcasters are working on that, doing what they 14 can. Some of the broadcasters may actually have 15 numbers that they will be using for their viewers to 16 call so they can get answers to the questions about 17 why a particular consumer in a particular place may 18 be having challenges. 19 Other broadcasters are working together 20 with the state broadcasters and they have a single 21 number for consumers in that state to call with those 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 108 types of technical issues. Again, we're enhancing 1 the information we have available to our agents as 2 well. 3 We also will have in there, as I think I 4 just mentioned, a directory of the groups that we 5 know of that are willing to go into the homes of 6 people to help install the converter boxes and a list 7 of help centers that are being established around the 8 country by organizations to help consumers with the 9 shift, with the digital transition and the shift to 10 digital. 11 So those are some of the things we're 12 doing, and that's on kind of the call center side. 13 On the outreach side, I think the Commissioners 14 alluded to the fact that we're already kind of 15 evaluating the staff we have internally, getting 16 another call for volunteers throughout the agency to 17 see where we could possibly have even more people 18 that we can put onto the boots on the ground effort. 19 That said, our agency isn't that big of 20 an agency and I think that the Chairman said the day 21 after he was named, he said that his priority, this 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 109 agency's priority, number one is digital TV, number 1 two is digital TV, and number three is digital TV. 2 So all of the available resources are being put on 3 this. But when you're talking about the size of this 4 country, the number of consumers that may potentially 5 be affected, it goes without saying that we need the 6 help and suggestions from people like you around the 7 table of how do we find local community places that 8 we can refer consumers when they really do need that 9 last bit of help and it needs to be local. 10 So that's one thing. Suggestions you 11 have on that, feel free to let Debby know and I'm 12 sure she'll put together suggestions for the 13 committee. But do know that individually if you want 14 to share anything with me individually you are more 15 than welcome to. We do value the input. To the 16 extent there are things that we should be doing or17 could be doing -- I know if it's February 17th we 18 have very little time, so I would welcome those 19 comments whenever you want to send them. Even if 20 it's June, we still don't have very much time. We 21 need the bulk of your suggestions. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 110 As I said, on the money side, I'm sure 1 everyone will have proposals for how to spend the 2 money. But even if there's not money or even setting 3 aside things we can do with the money, what 4 suggestions do you have for what we could be doing to 5 help reach these consumers? And really, not just 6 reach them; I think there are many statistics that 7 you've seen from whatever source that demonstrate 8 that consumers are definitely aware of the 9 transition. How do we help them get the boxes, 10 install the boxes, and get good reception? That's 11 the place where I really think the focus needs to 12 shift. 13 A couple of things. I think -- I 14 actually think I had a few bullet points and I think 15 I went through them. I really did want to kind of 16 leave the rest. 17 I should say to you the Chairman has 18 identified Rosemary Harrold, who is in Commissioner 19 McDowell's office, and is working with me and is 20 working with Gary Epstein and others to really 21 identify ways to enhance the call centers. So just 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 111 so you know, the Chairman and the Commissioners are 1 all working together on this. Rosemary is focusing 2 on that side to see what we need to do, do 3 differently, and enhance. Then, as Commissioner 4 Adelstein was saying, Rudy DeBuchais is working with 5 us on outreach, both in terms of outreach and how we 6 utilize external sources and contracting and the 7 like, but also in terms of what our folks are doing 8 and should be doing more of and whether we need to 9 shift resources around. 10 We are looking at, too -- that reminds me 11 -- how to focus those resources in terms of, okay, we 12 have so many people out there, but are they in the 13 right places. If there is a delay and certain 14 stations go on the 17th of February, then we should 15 be thinking about redeploying the resources that 16 maybe were there into some of the areas that are 17 going to go later. 18 So we are constantly looking at where do 19 we need more help, where can we shift them, how do we 20 get new volunteers. That is something that the 21 Chairman's office is definitely focusing on as well. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 112 So with that, I'm happy to answer any 1 questions you might have. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Cards are up and I 3 apologize, I was busy writing, so I did not see the 4 order. I have very good peripheral vision, but I did 5 see Shirley's card went up. Her card went up when I 6 went to the ladies room. I saw that happen. So 7 Shirley is first, and then let's just go around the 8 room. Sorry, Karen. But Karen's going to say thank 9 you, I know. Right? 10 (Laughter.) 11 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I have a question. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: We're going to go 13 around the room. Shirley. 14 MS. ROOKER: I really have a question 15 that was just conveyed to me by my office. Ed in my 16 office heard a report on the radio this morning about 17 the impact of delaying the transition. Prince 18 George's County indicated that the broadband that 19 they have allocated, that they have a part of for 20 emergency use, if the transition doesn't take place 21 that they would not be able to test their broadband 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 113 for emergency use until next year. 1 It has to do with the leaves on the 2 trees. Now, I'm getting this thirdhand, so if I 3 sound stupid it's because I am. 4 But is there some comment on this? I'd 5 never heard this before. Does it have something to 6 do with the time of year? 7 MS. SEIDEL: Two pieces to it. I think 8 the first piece is certainly to the extent the 9 deadline shifts to June and the digital broadcaster 10 chooses to go to June, chooses to wait until June, to 11 the extent the public safety community is relying 12 upon the February 17th date it would seem to me 13 reasonable that they may have to wait until June. 14 Then if what they're saying -- and again, 15 we have an engineer in the back; after I'm finished 16 speaking, Julius is here and he can answer it for 17 sure -- but presumably if the issue is then what the 18 terrain is like and leaves on trees and all that kind 19 of stuff, it means that from a practical perspective 20 it's then later that they can actually start testing, 21 I'm not sure. But I suspect it has to do with when 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 114 the broadcasters choose to go based on the fact that 1 they might have that additional time. 2 MS. ROOKER: But it specifically 3 mentioned the leaves on the trees. 4 MS. SEIDEL: We do have an engineer back 5 here, so if you can hold on the leaves on the trees, 6 we'll get to that. We'll get to the engineers. 7 That's a good question, though. Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Brandon. 9 MR. STEPHENS: One of the things that 10 we've been trying to do, especially in my region, is 11 put out some good information. There have been some 12 newspapers and some radio stations that have 13 contacted me about what's happening with the digital 14 transition. They know I serve on this committee and 15 that sort of thing. 16 One of the things I don't want to do is 17 putting out the wrong information or information that 18 can be taken the wrong way. Just any suggestions 19 there for when that comes around? So some bullet 20 points on the press kit? Because I know that now 21 that all the activity has happened the newspapers are 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 115 going to call again. 1 Or when we're out there talking to the 2 community, because we're going to obviously do some 3 more focus groups now that we have some new 4 information now? 5 MS. SEIDEL: That's a good point, 6 Brendon, and Thomas is here, too, and he helps me 7 oversee this committee. I think that's a very good 8 point and to the extent there is a delay I know we 9 will be putting together talking points for our own 10 resources in the field to utilize, to help really 11 clarify what the delay means for consumers. So to 12 the extent we put those together, we'll also get them 13 together to share with you. 14 I know you are incredibly fast at getting 15 the word about what happens here, and a lot of times 16 Scott's forwarding me the emails that all of you send 17 and it's like within seconds of me finding out. But 18 we will, when we have the information for our own 19 purposes, share it with you. 20 A couple of things that I think our 21 messaging needs to say if there is a delay, and the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 116 people who have been working in the regions and 1 around the country would emphasize this, is even if 2 there is a delay it does not mean the broadcasters 3 can't go early. As Lauri was saying before, they can 4 go early. So in some ways the consumer needs to be 5 aware of whether their stations are going to be still 6 going on the 17th, and if they don't the more 7 cautious approach is to prepare for the February 8 17th; and that certainly preparing now doesn't --9 there's no disincentive to going ahead and preparing 10 early. 11 From a personal perspective, we all know 12 that consumers, or at least many consumers, are 13 motivated by deadlines. I for one am trying to 14 continue the agency with the messaging because 15 whether it's June 12th or February 17th, we don't 16 want consumers waiting until the last minute. 17 So one, the messaging should be it gives 18 the stations the option of waiting until the 17th; 19 consumers should still be prepared and look for those 20 analog pass-through boxes, so whether they're talking 21 analog or digital signals they're covered. That 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 117 would be I think what I we show. 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 2 Charles. 3 MR. BENTON: I'm Charles Benton. 4 Cathy, first of all, thank you for all 5 the efforts that you and your team have put forward 6 on this under challenging circumstances at best. 7 I want to focus a little bit on the $8.4 8 million, the set of 12 grants made by the FCC, that 9 was announced in the press on January 6th. The 10 deadline for the RFP submissions on this was October 11 21 and in fact I think our Chairman helped to move 12 that deadline up so it would give more people a 13 chance to apply. So the deadline for that was 14 October 21. 15 It then took until January 6th to make 16 decisions about this, which is about 10 weeks. Some 17 of the groups, according to the indications, actually 18 found out about their being granted the award from 19 the press release. It was really, to put it mildly, 20 surprising. 21 Anyway, the nine groups that -- the 12 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 118 grants, 3 of which are national plans, which were to 1 the AARP for $2.7 million, the Communications 2 Services for $1.1 million, and the Hispanic 3 Information Telecommunication Network for 750,000. 4 Most interesting to me was in the nine state, local, 5 and regional plans, the first one on the list was to 6 Pintech Corp for $2.8 million, $2.8 million, for 7 doing the four-state region of Virginia, West 8 Virginia, North Carolina, and South Carolina. All 9 the other regional grants were under a quarter of a 10 million. 11 So I've got some questions about this. 12 MS. SEIDEL: Are there any other 13 questions? 14 (Laughter.) 15 MR. BENTON: And while we're being 16 critical about this, because these are facts, how 17 does one make the most of this and learn from the 18 grants that have been made, rather than sitting here 19 and trying to second-guess and judge the decisions 20 that were made here and the lack of timeliness and 21 all that, it's what to do with this going forward. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 119 With the idea of looking at February 17th 1 as a way of learning lessons, here you've got a model 2 in effect with Virginia, West Virginia, North 3 Carolina, and South Carolina really, from which you 4 could really learn important lessons there in place 5 that could be then vetted out in this noncompetitive 6 -- Ken's organization, where there's 11,000, how does 7 one take the lessons learned here in 2-17 and apply 8 these looking towards June 12th? 9 So if you could talk a little about this 10 and about how you can make a silk purse out of a 11 sow's ear? How can you build from this reality base 12 of these $8.4 million grants, which I assume is part 13 of the $20 million that you got from Congress. I 14 don't know how much of that -- how much of that $20 15 million is left, has not been spent? 16 MS. SEIDEL: I can't tell you that 17 answer, but I can tell you if you look at the call 18 center contract -- and please don't quote me on this, 19 but I think the grassroots and the call center I 20 think were --21 MR. BENTON: That's IBM, right? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 120 MS. SEIDEL: Right. So take that and you 1 take the grassroots, you're getting pretty darn close 2 to 20. 3 MR. BENTON: Right. So what can you 4 learn from this short-term to apply to the second 5 transition? That's my question. 6 MS. SEIDEL: I think rather than talking 7 about how the decisions were made about the 8 grassroots, which I think plenty of questions have 9 been asked -- there are questions internally. But I 10 think really your point about, okay, they're there, 11 how do we capitalize on them and direct them into the 12 proper direction based on the constraints that exist 13 or the context that exists vis a vis the contract 14 that was awarded? 15 But I think certainly the solicitation 16 was aimed at trying to reach people who are harder to 17 reach and to help them and give them assistance to 18 actually go and get the box and prepare. So I think 19 our focus is continuing to encourage the entities who 20 are working with us to do as much as they can in 21 terms of walk-in help centers, and many of them are 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 121 providing those, and to do as much as they can in 1 terms of installations in home. 2 So I think what do we do? We continue to 3 work with them and continue to work in that 4 direction, and to the extent they are doing phone 5 centers continue to make sure that they're providing 6 the best messaging possible based on the information 7 we have, the information that we're gaining every 8 day, and certainly information if there is a delay 9 about what happens on the 17th in any event, and 10 incorporating that into the messaging. 11 So I think it's kind of going forward. I 12 will say, to the extent -- I think Tony was saying 13 too that there is a very, I think, close dialogue 14 between agencies and others about to the extent there 15 would be funding, additional funding made available, 16 ways that that could be spent in the most productive 17 way, in the most efficient way. 18 I think some of what has happened in what 19 this initial round of contracts, certainly some of 20 the things we've learned, seeing questions we've had, 21 questions the contractors have had, will all play 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 122 into hopefully doing it even better the next go-round1 if that's the route that's taken. 2 That said, in fairness, I will say that 3 both -- and I think you alluded to it, too, and maybe 4 somebody else did. The preparation of the 5 solicitation for those grassroots contracts -- the 6 grassroots, that came out of Wilmington and the fact 7 that we recognized very early on that a local 8 presence, people actually in the community to help 9 those that need it, is truly one of the most 10 important elements to the transition. So those 11 contracts really did fall mainly out of that. 12 So I think we're trying to learn from 13 what's happened in terms of transitions that have 14 taken place and the questions we receive from 15 consumers. Then I think we're trying to learn from 16 the people that are helping us here with contracts 17 and also working closely with Tony about how their 18 grantees are helping them, so that we figure out the 19 most productive way going forward to really 20 capitalize on what we have learned. 21 But I think your point is well taken. I 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 123 don't know if I've answered your question. 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Charles, just to 2 plug in on that, more on the process, we might 3 actually compliment ourselves, the CAC, on the fact 4 that those contracts actually happened, because that 5 was a recommendation of the CAC, that that actually 6 happened. Way back when, I don't know -- Scott and I 7 were just talking about when that was. It was maybe 8 some time early last year that we recommended that 9 something like that take place. So that was a 10 recommendation of the CAC at one time, that the FCC 11 reach out and provide some support for that. 12 MR. BENTON: Plus the funding, of course. 13 Details, details. 14 MS. SEIDEL: If I might, if I might 15 interrupt, that does bring us back to a point, too. 16 We did the solicitation in anticipation of the 17 additional funding being made available. So just to 18 be clear, that $20 million -- somebody else around 19 the table can maybe help me -- it was very late in 20 coming actually to the door, to the FCC. So even if 21 we had wanted to and even if in the process we were 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 124 ready to do it in November and December, we couldn't 1 have. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Harry. 3 MR. ROESCH: In lessons learned, in what 4 everybody did down there in Wilmington, do we have 5 any understanding of the issues that are common to 6 what was tried to be implemented and what can be done 7 better? I haven't heard anything yet. 8 MS. SEIDEL: I think there are a couple 9 of pieces to that. One, as I said before, helping 10 the grassroots and community organizations and local 11 centers. I know people don't always want to hear 12 that, but that's the reality. 13 The other piece is the importance of the 14 relationship with the local broadcasters. It's 15 absolutely critical. In Wilmington there was an 16 excellent relationship, in Hawaii as well, a very 17 excellent relationship with the local broadcasters. 18 So that there was very good communication and very 19 good support, and I think it was invaluable. 20 I think that is probably -- those two are 21 the key lessons learned I think that came out of both 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 125 transitions. 1 Thirdly, we did get a fair amount of 2 data, if you will. We tracked pretty granularly the 3 calls that came into our call center after Wilmington 4 and after the Hawaii transition to see what were 5 consumers telling us, what were they asking us or 6 what were they telling us. The information I think 7 is available on our web page. There was a press 8 release after Wilmington. Hawaii, I don't think I've 9 seen it yet. 10 But it basically told you, okay, how many 11 of these consumers just weren't aware of the 12 transition, how many of them couldn't get a converter 13 box or hadn't gotten their coupon yet, how many of 14 them had trouble installing their converter box, and 15 how many of them just couldn't receive a signal. 16 Interestingly, the same categories of 17 questions have arisen at the Wilmington transition, 18 the various soft tests around the country, and after 19 the Hawaii transition. So one piece of it is it's 20 been consistent along the way, and what varies is the 21 percentage of people who have an issue with getting 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 126 the coupon, which is -- not issue in terms of 1 actually getting the coupon, but whether they've 2 applied for it and gotten it back and actually 3 redeemed it kind of thing; and then the reception 4 issues. 5 Initially with Wilmington, the consumers 6 would report reception issues -- and I think this is 7 important to note -- but it really wasn't always a 8 reception issue; it was that the consumer hadn't 9 quite scanned or rescanned after adjusting the 10 antenna, they didn't quite have their box set up 11 properly, they forgot to put the antenna back in. 12 There were things like that. 13 But our messaging has also evolved as 14 we've heard from consumers. There was one day when 15 multiple agents heard from consumers who their whole 16 problem was that they really had not unwrapped the 17 battery that went into the converter box remote. 18 Well, you know, when you start hearing it from a few 19 people, it sounds silly, but it's a problem. If you 20 look at those, the plastic is wrapped very tightly. 21 So what did we do? We have it on the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 127 troubleshooting tips. So if you -- oh, that's the 1 other thing in terms of input to this process. If 2 you are hearing from consumers about particular 3 issues they have that you think would be good tips 4 for us to use both through our agents answering the 5 phones and then also through the people on the ground 6 or through or publications or Internet site, we would 7 welcome those. 8 There have been things that people around 9 this table have told me that have caused us to evolve 10 our messaging, add FAQs on the web page, or put out 11 an advisory to help consumers. 12 So I do invite you all to provide that 13 input as well. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Great. Thank you. 15 Brenda, you did have your card up 16 earlier. Do you still have a question? 17 MS. PENNINGTON: No, that was from the 18 last. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, all right. 20 Thank you. 21 Karen. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 128 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I have a question 1 about captioning again, and actually specifically 2 about the call centers. One of the things that we 3 think would be very, very helpful would be to have 4 dedicated staff to specifically answer captioning 5 questions and to specifically publicize a number 6 specifically for captioning -- and video description; 7 I should say "pass-through questions." 8 These are very unique. I am sure they're 9 coming in, but I'm sure they're getting lost because 10 they're so highly technical. So I'm asking you for a 11 commitment right now, because if you don't --12 MS. SEIDEL: Because I have that 13 authority. 14 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Because you have that 15 authority and you have the support of the Chairman --16 you do have the authority -- and because if you don't 17 -- we have a resolution later on other matters than 18 captioning. It's not in there, but if you can't give 19 me the commitment or you think that we need to pass 20 the resolution, we'll add it in, because until we 21 have dedicated staff dealing with these issues we're 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 129 not going to -- we heard this morning we're going to 1 get a technical group. 2 We actually have a person out there. 3 She's not at the table here. You may have heard her 4 name, Dana Mulvaney, who has become basically the 5 nation's investigator of these issues and has a whole 6 list of troubleshooting issues. 7 She has a whole list of troubleshooting 8 tips that she has gathered. We can get those to you. 9 MS. SEIDEL: If I might interrupt, I 10 think your point is a really good one. The first 11 question I have -- and I know if Rosemary Harrold 12 were here she'd ask the same thing -- do you really 13 mean we need to have a separate number that then 14 would have to be publicized? Or if what you mean is 15 somebody who has a captioning issue, there's an 16 opportunity for them early on to indicate when they 17 call our toll-free number that they have a captioning 18 issue and that that call would go to a dedicated 19 staff of people who are well-versed on captioning 20 issues? 21 Like the numbering thing, I always hear 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 130 from Debby and other people too many numbers actually 1 has a negative effect. 2 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Let me talk it over 3 with --4 MS. SEIDEL: Okay. 5 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: -- the other 6 representatives of people with disabilities. My 7 concern is that the questions have been getting lost. 8 So if, I suppose, staff as soon as they hear "closed 9 captioning" immediately say, okay, you're being 10 transferred, then that may suffice. 11 MS. SEIDEL: I think that makes a lot of 12 sense and I suspect others will here, too. But I 13 will take it back, and she can get back to me on the 14 number, but I suggest making sure the -- I talk too 15 fast, too -- making sure the staff is dedicated and 16 well trained. 17 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Okay, thank you. 18 MS. SEIDEL: You're welcome. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I actually have my 20 card up and I do want to ask you a question, Cathy. 21 In the final days of the former Chairman there was an 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 131 award given to IBM of $12 million for call center 1 operations to enhance the FCC's call center. I know 2 it was specifically geared toward the original, the 3 current and original transition date of February 4 17th. 5 My question is how does that work, and if 6 there is a delay in the date how will that be 7 adjusted. I think also as a follow-up question to 8 maybe what Karen has asked, that's a lot of money and 9 can we do things to enhance our capabilities to 10 address some of these issues that are outstanding? 11 MS. SEIDEL: A couple of things on that. 12 I think the contract that was awarded certainly did 13 anticipate the February 17th deadline. To the extent 14 there is a shift in the date, I'm told that there are 15 provisions for the contractor to continue to provide 16 service. But the issue is how far that -- 12.4 was 17 it -- how far that $12 million goes? So in other 18 words, it depends on the volume of calls and how you 19 spread your agents. 20 So I think right now we're working toward 21 February 17th. If the date changes, people are 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 132 actively figuring out, okay, what does that mean for 1 the call center. I think an obvious -- at least my 2 obvious reaction is it means there's going to have to 3 be new money there. I think even if you spread 4 people as much as you can, I think there will be a 5 need for more money to staff the call center if 6 you're talking four more months. 7 The other piece of it is that award was 8 to supplement -- we have about 60 to 70 employees on 9 the phones. We also have about 136 contractors in 10 place today that are answering the 1-888 toll-free 11 number and our TTY number. We knew that even if we 12 expanded as much as we could physically, both in 13 terms of seats and in terms of our own networking 14 infrastructure, we would need more help to handle the 15 volume of calls. 16 So that's when the contract went out. It 17 was awarded to IBM. If I'm not mistaken, the 18 contract anticipates being able to handle so many 19 agent calls. Again, it gets kind of complicated 20 whether you're talking agents in their seat at any 21 given time or agents in the seat at the busy time. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 133 It really does vary. 1 But it would not -- even that amount is 2 not nearly enough to handle the volume of calls that 3 are being expected, which is somewhere between $1 and4 $2 million within the week of the transition. It's 5 phenomenal call volume. Practically no call center 6 anywhere around this you can handle that call volume. 7 So it was very fortunate that the 8 industry has stepped up, NAB, the Cable Television 9 Association, satellite companies, to actually create 10 and staff a separate organization that probably will 11 be -- and I'm speaking a little bit out of school 12 because it's their center, and anybody can jump in 13 here since they're here -- but I think over 6,000 14 agents to handle calls as well. So between their 15 agents, our agents, it's a significant step in the 16 right direction in terms of being able to field what 17 we think will be the volume of calls. 18 So we are fortunate that that's 19 occurring. Then just to be clear, from what the 20 Chairman said -- and I mentioned before Rosemary 21 Harrold's involvement -- there's absolutely no 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 134 question that the industry call center, the FCC's 1 call center, and the NTIA call center will be very, 2 very, very closely coordinated, integrated, and I am 3 confident that the experience the consumer gets will 4 be a smooth one. We're endeavoring to do what we can 5 to make sure that not only do we tell them as much as 6 we know, but be able to give them numbers, as I said, 7 for either people to help them install the box or 8 local folks who can tell them what kind of challenges 9 they may be having technically and whether and how 10 they might fix them. 11 One of the things, too, since you're all 12 people with a consumer focus, we really are in our 13 messaging also trying to make sure that there isn't -14 - that consumers aren't misled into thinking that 15 they need to do or buy things if it may or may not 16 help them. So for example, I think what we're trying 17 to do is gather more information internally, share it 18 with the people who are on the ground about, okay, is 19 a brand-new antenna really going to help you? 20 Ideally, if it does, great. But there may be some 21 consumers really that are so far outside the reach of 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 135 that digital signal that a newer or better indoor 1 antenna isn't going to help them and perhaps an 2 antenna on the roof isn't going to help them. The 3 last thing we want is that consumer going out, buying 4 a new antenna, and having the new antenna installed. 5 So we're trying to get information so 6 that the consumers really have everything that would 7 be helpful to them in their decisionmaking. That's 8 just another piece of this. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Very good. 10 Thank you so much, Cathy, for your time. 11 Ken, you have a quick follow-up? 12 MS. SEIDEL: No, he was going to tell me 13 "thank you." 14 (Laughter.) 15 MR. McELDOWNEY: I guess I do have a 16 question. Since we're all sort of thinking about 17 outreach and the community-based education, I'm 18 wondering which of the excellent publications on the 19 web site are available for free in printed versions, 20 I guess. I couldn't really tell from the web site 21 what can be ordered. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 136 MS. SEIDEL: And it's because it isn't 1 there. But so far, Ken, we can tell you that any 2 organization so far that has called us and said, can 3 you send me X number of publications in this 4 language, we have been able to do it for them at no 5 cost. Now, that's not to say if you tell me you're 6 going to hand out two million copies that there might 7 be a charge. But for the most part we're doing what 8 we can, because you are helping us and we know that. 9 So to the extent we can, we try to make them 10 available to you. 11 I should mention too that we are working 12 to enhance the web page. We are looking at ways to 13 make it more user-friendly, not just for the 14 consumers that have the unit because that's the bulk 15 of the consumers and probably they're the ones 16 worried about it, those who have the unit, but people 17 who help them. So that's why we want to make sure 18 that it's user-friendly and we are going to make 19 enhancements to make it even more user-friendly and 20 add even more valuable information to the consumer in 21 terms of coverage and technical issues as well. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 137 MR. McELDOWNEY: I guess the other part 1 of it then would be, if in fact we were thinking 2 about doing a proposal in which we needed several 3 hundred thousand copies of 10 or 20 different 4 publications, is that something you could meet or is 5 that something we should include in the proposal? 6 MS. SEIDEL: Here's what I would tell you 7 based on the past life of looking at the proposals. 8 If I were you, I would include your proposal both 9 ways: if you make them, what you think the charge 10 will be; and if you don't. That way, you don't have 11 to go back and forth with mods or anything like that. 12 At least that's what I would do. 13 MR. McELDOWNEY: Thanks. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Cathy, I just want 15 to thank you for not only your time today, but all 16 the time that you do spend on this. 17 MS. SEIDEL: Thank you. thank you all. 18 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: You've spent the 19 past couple of years on this and we really appreciate 20 it. Thank you so much. 21 MS. SEIDEL: Thank you. I really do look 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 138 forward to your input. Thank you. 1 (Applause.) 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Stay in your seats, 3 because I know you're ready to jump. We have two 4 guests that I want to make sure we give fair and 5 adequate time to, who are going to quickly talk about 6 their efforts at the grassroots. You've heard 7 reference to this all morning: the Leadership 8 Conference on Civil Rights and the National 9 Association of Area Agencies on Aging, NAAAA. 10 I want to invite our two guests to join 11 us at the table. We have a mike here, and is there 12 another mike at the table that's open? Both of you 13 come on over here.14 They're going to tell us about their 15 programs that have been funded by NTIA that Tony 16 mentioned, as well as Chairman Copps mentioned as 17 well. We're going to have them quickly tell us about 18 their programs that have offered some boots on the 19 ground efforts on DTV in some of the areas of the 20 country. Then we will talk about how we're working 21 our agenda for the balance of the day. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 139 So thank you both. Which one of you 1 wants to go first? I'll introduce you. Erica? 2 Erica Swanson with Leadership Conference on Civil 3 Rights. Thank you, Erica. 4 DTV GRASSROOTS ACTIVITIES 5 MS. SWANSON: Thank you. Again, my name 6 is Erica Swanson, with the Leadership Conference on 7 Civil Rights. We are a national civil human rights 8 coalition of about 200 national organizations that 9 really span the breadth of the civil and human rights 10 coalition today in the 21st century. Many of you 11 probably know my channel Mark Lloyd, who has worked 12 with many, many of you. 13 I'm here today because I have a 14 grassroots background. I am an organizer and am 15 helping to lead our public education campaign, to not 16 only educate people about the transition, but to 17 prepare them and provide that direct assistance. 18 Somebody mentioned it earlier today that 19 we've seen for some time that there is a large gap 20 between awareness and action, but we've done a really 21 good job working together to raise awareness levels 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 140 across impacted communities. Again, we come to this 1 because of the communities who will be most impacted 2 by this transition. 3 What we know is that people really need 4 assistance identifying what their three options are 5 and how to get that coupon and how to get that 6 converter box installed. So the Leadership 7 Conference on Civil Rights was very pleased to be 8 able to partner with NTIA, receive an award from 9 NTIA, right before the holidays. The timing of that 10 has been challenged. People have talked about the 11 timing issue certainly. This has been a very, very 12 fast get up and going campaign to get those boots on 13 the ground. We're very pleased to work with NTIA 14 and NAAAA and others in this work. 15 What I'm passing around is a little bit 16 of a description of some of the work that we are 17 doing in our seven cities. I just want to quickly 18 talk about the work we're doing in our seven cities, 19 what those primary elements are. I want to share 20 with you some of the on-the-ground perspectives, what 21 we're hearing from people who are impacted by this 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 141 transition, the questions they're having, the 1 concerns they're raising, the barriers they are 2 facing, and then from that a few recommendations. 3 So our campaign is in seven cities. We 4 really had to focus in, given the timing, given the 5 resources available, and figure out where there was 6 great need, where there were communities that we 7 could work with and that were impacted, and we were 8 able to get up and get going very quickly. That was 9 probably the primary thing, that we could get going 10 very quickly. 11 So we're in seven cities. You see that 12 little star. It's Atlanta, it's Detroit, 13 Minneapolis-St. Paul, Portland, San Antonio, the Bay 14 Area, and Seattle-Tacoma. In each of these cities we 15 have an on-the-ground coordinator, somebody who comes 16 from an organizing background, who has a coalition 17 approach, who is helping to work with the various 18 entities in that city who are stakeholders and 19 impacted population providers. 20 So they're working with the FCC 21 coordinators, they're working with the broadcasters 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 142 and public television stations, they're working with 1 city agencies and local leaders and service providers 2 and community-based organizations. They're working 3 with the affiliates and partners that are local on 4 the DTV transition coalition. 5 So those coordinators are really helping 6 us very quickly map out the various parts of a 7 campaign in that city so we can be as strategic as 8 possible in that collaboration. I'll talk about this 9 in just a second, but what we know is that there are 10 a lot of people out there doing a little bit of work, 11 and what we really very much need to do at that local 12 level is figure out how we pull it all together so 13 we're putting those puzzle pieces together in a way 14 that helps the people that that we really want to 15 make sure we're helping. 16 So we have coordinators. We have 17 assistance centers. In each city we have on average 18 two assistance centers. These are community-based 19 organizations who have expertise at reaching one or 20 more of the impacted populations. They're targeting 21 these populations with aggressive programming and 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 143 outreach and assistance. Some of them are really 1 very much drop-in centers, where people can come in 2 and ask their questions about the coupon program or 3 the converter box. Others are very focused on 4 providing training and teaching people how to install 5 the converter box, so they can go out and help people 6 where they are. 7 We also have partners on a whole range of8 levels. That's how we're accomplishing breadth with 9 this campaign. These are the community-based 10 organizations who with a little bit of some modest 11 resources and support, some training, some materials, 12 and some financial support, can do a range of 13 activities, that scan that apply, buy, and try series 14 of activities. What can we do to broaden that table 15 of folks that are able to do that work at the local 16 level? 17 Then, very importantly, we're working 18 with ethnic media. We are pulling together ethnic 19 media who work in print, who work in radio, on line, 20 television, to make sure that we're hearing from them 21 what they can do to help reach the communities that 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 144 they reach so effectively and see what we can do to 1 help them in that endeavor. So we're really trying 2 to put together those pieces again to be as strategic 3 as possible. 4 Those are the various pieces. What I 5 have sent around is a list of those seven cities of 6 our local coordinators. So before I go further I 7 would just make an ask: that if you are in any of 8 these seven cities, if you have affiliates, members, 9 or networks in the seven cities and if any of your 10 people are doing work or if any of the people you11 know would like to do work we would like to 12 coordinate with you. We'd like to know what it is 13 that you're doing, share with you what we are doing, 14 and see how we can put the pieces together. 15 I think that the call centers especially 16 are a really important way that we can share that 17 resource. We'd love to know what the cultural 18 competency, for example, is of those call centers, 19 how we can help shape that, and then also how we can 20 promote that and, if possible, be a local partner 21 when what you need is somebody who can go out and be 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 145 boots on the ground coming out of those calls. So I 1 think a lot of opportunity among those seven cities 2 for sure. 3 What we're hearing back, the local 4 perspectives. There are probably three, three 5 primary general, I guess I would say, areas of 6 feedback we're receiving. The first is that people 7 are very eager to work together. There are very 8 strong local networks that are developing and 9 communities are thirsty for this local help. It is 10 one thing to know that there's a national campaign 11 and a federal transition going on, but when somebody 12 knows that their church, that their school, that 13 their PTA or their local branch of NAACP is working 14 on this issue, it really becomes much more real to 15 them and is much more accessible. So people are 16 really thirsty to work together and to make that be 17 local. 18 Second, people are very pleased with the 19 potential delay. We are just trying to get our heads 20 around what this means for our work and how we can 21 adjust. But we know in those conversations people 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 146 are having with consumers that this is going to give 1 people more time to get prepared. We don't want to 2 lose that sense of urgency. I think I understand 3 this rolling transition is going to they're going to 4 maybe lose one station at a time, but they're going 5 to get it. But it gives us some time to take that 6 pressure off, that February 17th all or nothing 7 aspect to it. 8 People are very, very pleased that there 9 are fixes to the coupon program. The expired coupons 10 issue has been a very, very serious one for many in 11 our communities, so they're very pleased to see those 12 fixes. 13 Then third, this issue, as many of you 14 know, is being seen by community organizers and 15 community organizations as an issue of economic 16 justice and media justice, and they're really using 17 that in their work as a gateway to talk about other 18 issues that many of us care about, including 19 broadband deployment and full access to 20 communications issues. 21 People are very eager to work on this 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 147 issue. It is about helping their members, so it's a 1 membership service issue. But it's also a gateway to 2 issues about communications access issues. So there 3 are people out there who are eager and hungry to do 4 the work, but we really think that's the most 5 important reason to do it. 6 That said, there are a number of areas of 7 concern and barriers. The first is just in the 8 general area of confusion. I think you may have 9 heard it as well, but the questions and the confusion 10 is really ranging across the apply, buy, and try 11 types of questions and areas. But there's a lot of 12 confusion about the coupon program: Do I have to use 13 a coupon in order to get a converter box? Can I use 14 two coupons together? 15 We've been talking about that for quite 16 some time, but it just takes repetition. It just 17 takes people having somebody who they trust in their 18 community who they can ask those questions to. 19 There's a lot of confusion about 20 antennas: Do I need to use an antenna? Do I need to 21 get a bigger antenna? Will my antenna work? I heard 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 148 that my antenna won't even work. So what are things 1 people need to make a decision about that equipment? 2 There are some real urban myths out there 3 about things like who's eligible for coupons. So if 4 I don't have a land line, if I only use a cell phone, 5 can I get a coupon? Because when I go through the 6 prompts now at the NTIA number, I get a different 7 kind of response. So when we hear that, that's 8 helpful to us. We can ask NTIA and they can help 9 explain that to us, we can go back and we can explain 10 it in very accessible language, who is eligible, who 11 you do, what it means that you go to that prompt and 12 how to navigate it. 13 But really, helping to dispel some of the 14 urban myths it requires that you're on the ground 15 listening to people and that they're in a position to 16 share that information back. 17 There's also some urban myths out there 18 about, and concerns about, information policy, for a 19 lot of the reasons you would understand and expect. 20 With a federal coupon program, people just have a lot 21 of questions about what happens with all that data 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 149 that is collected. So again, a reason why it's 1 really important to work with trusted messengers in 2 these communities. 3 Maybe two other areas of barrier concern 4 we're hearing. There are a lot of people asking why. 5 Not just why, what does it mean that there's this 6 analog-digital spectrum shift and what's going to 7 happen with analog, but why is this happening, who is 8 benefiting from it, who's profiting on this, and why 9 is it costing me money? What is it costing me, the 10 individual consumer, money to make this transition? 11 So that's just a very big concern, and it 12 just requires that when you're having these 13 conversations and helping consumers work through 14 their options you just have to -- you have to work 15 with people who can listen to that for a few minutes, 16 then help them figure out what's the least expensive 17 of the options that they can choose going forward. 18 My boss, Ed Henderson, would say that in 19 these economic times that we're facing any money that 20 people have to spend out of pocket can be a real 21 burden, and if you're talking about, especially now 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 150 that we are currently with this coupon program, $40, 1 that $40 could be a good chunk of my grocery budget 2 for this week, and that's a decision that's very 3 tough for a lot of families who are on that border to 4 make, between groceries or health care and continued 5 access to television. 6 The other thing I would say that we're 7 really hearing is that there is overwhelming need. 8 There are people out there who are really very 9 thirsty for all this kind of support. We are finding 10 that as our organizations, our assistance centers --11 we have 18 assistance centers now that are 12 established -- as they're out there announcing that 13 they're there to provide this work, this support, in 14 many cases the immediate need is overwhelming their 15 capacity almost immediately. 16 One example, we did a press conference in 17 Minneapolis two weeks ago. Immediately after that 18 press conference, within 24 hours they'd received 400 19 phone calls to this small nonprofit organization that 20 works on a range of issues and it has support to do 21 DTV assistance, but was not prepared to take 400 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 151 phone calls on one day. 1 So what we know is that some resources 2 can go a long way, but we really need to have a 3 better idea about who else is out there who can do 4 this and how we can do it in a less piecemeal 5 fashion, if I could say it that way. There are a lot 6 of phone numbers out there that people can go to for 7 different types of assistance, and that's important 8 because you can't have a cookie-cutter approach in 9 providing assistance to those people. Those in the 10 deaf and hard of hearing community really need 11 assistance that may come from certain service 12 providers within that community. Those who speak 13 languages other than English need that service 14 assistance provided in those languages by people who 15 maybe they've worked with on other issues and have a 16 relationship with. 17 So coming out I think our recommendations 18 would be, one, that there continue to be support and 19 resources to local partners, who are these trusted 20 messengers, who have these relationships and can do 21 it in ways, can provide assistance in ways that are 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 152 culturally specific and appropriate, not just to that 1 local community but also to those constituencies that 2 are really impacted. 3 Second, that there be really strong and 4 visible leadership and coordination at the federal 5 level. That's something that we're very hopeful 6 about what could be happening here in the next few 7 days as we identify what comes out of a potential 8 date change. 9 Then third, that we work together outside 10 the Beltway as well, and that's something that NAAAA 11 and we are committed to doing. But how can we take 12 this coordination and make sure it's happening 13 regionally, make sure it's happening locally? Having 14 a coordinator, somebody who can be there to help map 15 it out and figure out what the collaborations are, 16 has been incredibly helpful and one of the most 17 valuable things that we've really seen coming out of 18 this project. We want to make sure that LCCR and 19 NAAAA are working with the FCC awardees as well at 20 the local level. We're continuing to work with the 21 FCC coordinators and the broadcasters, all the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 153 various players, so that we aren't duplicating 1 efforts and we aren't on each other toes, but are 2 putting it together in a way that again delivers the 3 best assistance to the most people in these 4 communities that we can. 5 So again, thank you for your time. Thank 6 you for listening to what it is that we're collecting 7 by way of feedback from folks on the ground, and we'd 8 really ask if you have networks and leaders in these 9 seven cities that you be in touch with our 10 coordinators and find ways we can work together. 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Excellent. Thank12 you so much, Erica. 13 Teresa Lambert is working with NAAAA and 14 with a coalition of aging organizations. So thank 15 you so much, Teresa. 16 MS. LAMBERT: Thank you. I want to thank 17 you for the opportunity to come here today and sort 18 of break into your agenda and have an opportunity to 19 share with you a little bit about what we are doing. 20 We have a grant, as you know, $2.7 21 million from NTIA, and while NAAAA is the primary 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 154 grant recipient, we are working with eight other 1 national aging associations. I want to talk a little 2 about who they are and what we're doing in a moment. 3 But our focus really has been and continues to be on 4 the vulnerable older persons who we know are going to 5 be very likely unable to be involved in getting a 6 coupon by themselves, installing it -- getting a box, 7 installing that converter box. 8 So our focus is really on these 9 vulnerable population groups of older persons, not 10 the healthy, robust, running 20 miles a day senior 11 who's really able to do this, but more the most 12 vulnerable populations. 13 We are really looking at education and 14 outreach that takes advantage of our particular niche 15 in society and our particular vehicles for 16 communicating with seniors, which go beyond the kinds 17 of more underground or local than what's been done by 18 FCC or NTIA, which has been remarkable, but trying to 19 reach these vulnerable population groups through some 20 of our own vehicles of communication, but, more 21 importantly, also looking at how can we really 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 155 provide them that one-to-one assistance that they're 1 going to need to make this transition successfully. 2 We started out by looking at our 3 locations, where we wanted to have grants on the 4 ground in the communities around the country. 5 Obviously, we started with the red zones NTIA had 6 identified for over-the-air broadcasting. But we 7 also added to that some of our own criteria that we 8 thought was terribly important. One is the areas 9 where we have high minority or non-English speaking 10 concentrations of older persons; rural and frontier 11 areas, because we know very well that those areas are 12 often somewhat neglected; our focus where we have a 13 particular niche that many others don't have, and 14 that is homebound, because we're in the homes of 15 seniors providing services to those who are 16 homebound. 17 So what are we doing and who are our 18 partners? Put very simply, we are mobilizing the 19 aging service delivery system to do this very 20 activity. The service system is comprised of various 21 levels. It's been around since 1965 with the passage 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 156 of the Older Americans Act. This service system 1 really has, as I say, various levels, and I will talk 2 about that, and there are partners involved with us, 3 national partners across these various levels of the 4 system. 5 There's the infrastructure level, there's 6 the service provider level, and then there is the 7 consumer level. I'll talk a little bit about each of 8 those so you understand what we're trying to 9 accomplish and how we're doing it. 10 In terms of infrastructure, there are two 11 primary kinds of organizations that serve in the 12 field as those foundational elements for the 13 infrastructure. One are state agencies on aging. 14 Those state agencies have as their representative as 15 our national partner the National Association of 16 State Units on Aging. These are state departments or 17 offices on aging around the country. 18 We work with them, not so much with the 19 agencies, the state departments on aging that have 20 area agencies who we represent, but rather for those 21 state agencies that do not, and there are nine state 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 157 agencies that do not have area agencies, which means 1 they operate both as a state agency and as a 2 community agency contracting for services. NASUA, 3 which is their representative, a member organization, 4 has given grants to three of those agencies -- South 5 Dakota, Nevada, and the District of Columbia -- and 6 they are mobilizing for statewide outreach and one-7 to-one assistance. So there will be three states in 8 which we have statewide coverage. 9 The National Association of Area 10 Agencies, which is my organization, represents that 11 component of the infrastructure that is really on the 12 ground. These are either citywide or multi-county or 13 county-wide, most often multi-county, agencies that 14 are responsible for developing and funding services 15 for older persons. There are 650 area agencies 16 across the country, as well as 240 Native American 17 aging programs, which also are members and are 18 involved with us. We have thus far funded 70 area 19 agencies on aging and about 10 Native American aging 20 programs. So we are moving forward. 21 These are the infrastructure. Below or 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 158 moving down the scale or down the hierarchy, if you 1 will, the next level are the service providers. Most 2 of our folks contract with service providers to 3 assist older person for a couple of reasons. One, to 4 provide services and programs that help them remain 5 healthy, well, engaged in society, and for those what6 are more frail, more vulnerable, to help keep them 7 out of unnecessary institutionalization, delaying or 8 avoiding institutionalization. So we are very much 9 into homes doing that kind of work. 10 The provider organizations include, at 11 the national level our partners are the National 12 Council on Aging, who represent a number of service 13 provider groups, but most specifically for this 14 purpose the senior centers around the country -- as 15 you all know, there are thousands of senior centers -16 - the National Association of Nutrition and Aging 17 Service Programs, which is an association that 18 represents those meals programs that are conducted at 19 community locations. We call them "congregate 20 meals." That's our jargon there. They're 21 "congregate meals." And some of the home delivery 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 159 meals organizations. They have 11 1 grantees around the country that they have funded. 2 The Meals on Wheels Association of 3 America, which are the Meals on Wheels. I'm sure 4 everybody is familiar with that. They have 12 5 grantees around the country. 6 Then the three major organizations 7 representing minority elders: the National Caucus on 8 Black Aging, the Associacion de Nacionale de Personas 9 Menores, and the National Asian Pacific Center on 10 Aging. Each of these organizations provides 11 services, have particular networks, have language 12 capabilities as necessary, and they are involved in 13 anywhere from five to seven communities with a high 14 proportion of minority elders that they work with. 15 Of course, at the consumer level we have 16 AARP is our partner. AARP did not request funding 17 under this, but, as you all know, we are very pleased 18 to have AARP not only for their ability to have that 19 broad reach to seniors, but also their ability to 20 help be able to work with us around the possibility 21 of having volunteers who can help us at the community 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 160 level. 1 So what is this system doing? I think 2 that the best way to describe it is to sort of give 3 you a profile of what it looks like nationally, 4 knowing that every community is a little bit 5 different. But generally what's going on, the real 6 infrastructure component are the area agencies and 7 those agencies are doing a couple of key things. 8 They are infusing within their service delivery 9 systems this message, this information. 10 The way that gets played out is that they 11 are actually involving within their various programs 12 the messages, the information, and the assistance 13 that seniors need to be able to make the digital 14 transition. Let me just give you a couple of 15 examples before I wrap up. Most of the agencies, for 16 example, are using their information assistance, and 17 there are some 2,000 of those around the country, 18 they're using those counseling and assistance 19 programs to query every caller who comes in to find 20 out if they are ready, and if they're not connect 21 them or link them with the right folks to get them 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 161 ready. 1 What does that mean? There are about 15 2 million calls nationally coming in on those lines 3 every year. It won't be that many certainly because 4 we're not in every location, but we are in a broad 5 range of locations. Using senior centers, for 6 example, one of their programs, to educate seniors 7 about how to assess their need for a converter box, 8 helping them apply, either online or through paper 9 applications; using the home delivery meals programs, 10 the case management home care programs for doing the 11 direct assistance with them on whether they need a 12 converter box, doing that through their laptop's 13 online applications, and actually providing 14 transportation to seniors who are not home-bound to 15 get their converter box, or working with retailers to 16 buy them in bulk and get those brought in to those 17 who are home-bound. 18 So we have a variety of ways in which we 19 are using that system to actually implement this. 20 But I think we're unique in that we have a system in 21 place that we can do that. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 162 Taken together, we are currently funding 1 over 100 associations -- excuse me, agencies or 2 organizations at the local level through these 3 national organizations, and we are also very 4 involved, as Erica said, in trying to enhance our 5 networking, both for being more -- expending our 6 resources, but having greater impact. 7 Obviously, we are working with LCCR, but 8 we're also working with the FCC and NTIA in providing 9 them by county the resources and the grantees that we 10 will have in place. We're working on getting each 11 county that they cover so that we can have that 12 available for the FCC and NTIA use; hot lines, their 13 national numbers for referring seniors. We want to 14 work with the National Association of Broadcasters to 15 get better linkage at the community level between 16 their folks and our folks, especially around where 17 they can provide installation assistance and the 18 advice and training for our people, as well as those 19 with the FCC who can do the same thing. 20 We plan to be meeting soon, we hope, with 21 AARP around how to better coordinate with them on the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 163 FCC-funded hotline and getting the referrals for 1 seniors who need specific assistance where we have 2 grants into our system. We plan to continue these 3 kinds of activities and networking over the next few 4 weeks to try to bring to bear all the resources in a 5 given community so that we can collaborate and 6 maximize our impact there. 7 I do want to say that I think that the 8 FCC and NTIA have done a fabulous job in creating 9 awareness and people understanding that they need to 10 take some action. I think the difficulty for seniors 11 has been if they don't have children in the community 12 or grandchildren or people who can help them, the 13 real difficulty is they didn't know where to turn for 14 help, they didn't know who to call. And normally 15 they wouldn't call an area agency on aging, which is 16 a service provider agency, for something wrong with 17 their television. So it's a new opportunity for them 18 -- for us to really network with some of the 19 broadcasters and others involved to try to get our 20 phone numbers out there, so that they know they can 21 call us and, using our networks to be able to help 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 164 those who need it. 1 So I want to say that I think this 2 project very much complements what's going on already 3 with the FCC and NTIA because we are very much on the 4 ground and can serve as a key resource for assisting 5 seniors in making this transition successfully. 6 Thank you for having us here and we 7 appreciate it. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 9 I think we're going to have to dispense 10 with questions, but appreciate the information. 11 Everybody, if you do need to find out more about 12 what's going on we can get contact information. I 13 know there's a handout that you have here. We've got 14 Erica's contact information and we can get -- 15 MS. LAMBERT: I have some cards I can 16 leave. 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: -- Teresa's as well. 18 Great. 19 Thank you both. 20 (Applause.) 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: If everyone --22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 165 MS. TRISTANI: Could I make a request to 1 the FCC or someone here? 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes. 3 MS. TRISTANI: I don't know who's here 4 from the FCC. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Do you want to get 6 on the mike there, please, and raise your hand. 7 Raise your hand. 8 MS. TRISTANI: Yes. I think it's 9 terrific, the outreach that's being done. But a big 10 concern is cities that aren't getting that kind of 11 outreach. About a week ago Nielsen came up with a 12 study of the most unprepared markets for the DTV 13 transition. I think except for one none of the 14 markets that you are covering is on that list. I 15 think it would be very helpful if someone from the 16 FCC could get us that data from Nielsen so we can 17 discuss it later on. 18 By the way, the impact is 19 disproportionately affecting Hispanic and African 20 American households. That's something I'd like to 21 discuss later. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 166 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, very good. 1 Now, if everybody could just run up and 2 get a sandwich and come back to the table, we're 3 going to have our Office of Engineering and 4 Technology presentation. We're going to do that over 5 our sandwiches, and then we're going to go right into 6 our working group. Thank you. 7 (Recess from 12:16 p.m. to 12:32 p.m.) 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: All right. Now 9 we're going to get answers to all of our technical 10 questions. We have our technical experts with us in 11 the room. We have Alan Stillwell and Julius Knapp, 12 Chief and Deputy Bureau Chief -- we're in great shape 13 here -- of the Office of Engineering and Technology. 14 Shirley had a question about if we have 15 the delay would the leaves on the tree be a problem 16 and whether or not they'd have to wait, some of the 17 folks, the public safety folks, would have to wait a 18 year because of the leaves on the trees. We have an 19 answer and that's that Congress would take immediate 20 action to actually delay spring. 21 (Laughter.) 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 167 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you, Ken. 1 VOICE: It would be blocked by the GOP. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes, that's right. 3 It would be immediately blocked by the GOP, and 4 actually I would support that action to block that. 5 We need spring to be accelerated. 6 So anyway, thank you both for being here. 7 If you could actually answer that leaves question 8 because Shirley is still here in the room, but she 9 has to leave shortly, and she would like to know what 10 that answer is. 11 OVER-THE-AIR RECEPTION ISSUES: HOW TO HELP CONSUMERS 12 MR. KNAPP: I would only answer generally 13 because I don't know the specifics of it. But things 14 like leaves on trees can actually either absorb or 15 shade radio signals or create what's called 16 reflections in the radio signals. Usually what you 17 try to do is test your system at all points in the 18 year. Most often people are more concerned about 19 testing with the leaves than without the leaves. But 20 we want to be sure that these systems work year-21 around. So I suspect that's what the concern is, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 168 that they get to be able to test these systems under 1 all sets of conditions. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, great. Well, 3 thank you. 4 You know, what we really are interested 5 in knowing, because there are so many issues that 6 come up related to the transition that are technical 7 questions that consumers have -- we know there are 8 antenna questions, there's the sort of digital drop 9 question. From our perspective, I think I hope that 10 most of us in the room are looking at it from sort of 11 the consumer in the home. What are they going to 12 experience? What kind of questions might they have? 13 So I think what we'd like to know is from 14 that consumer perspective what can you tell us might 15 be some of the issues that they might experience. 16 I'll start with that and then if we could open it up 17 to what other questions folks might have. 18 MR. KNAPP: It is a real challenge 19 because this transition from a technical standpoint 20 is very complex. So I'll try to make some very broad 21 general remarks that hopefully are helpful for 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 169 people. I would tell you that in most cases people 1 should be just fine in receiving the over-the-air TV 2 signals. If you're not seeing anything at all, I 3 would venture to say that the odds are greater that 4 the box is just not hooked up right. 5 Particularly the first thing to look for 6 is are you seeing the menu on the screen. That'll 7 tell you at least I've got the box hooked up right 8 and then to the antenna. More often, the concern are 9 things about, I've lost some stations. In other 10 words, the so-called "lost signal" issue. That's a 11 little difficult because we haven't completed the 12 transition. 13 We've got stations that are operating 14 their digital signal on a high UHF channel, where the 15 coverage is a bit different, and they're going to 16 move that down to their VHF channel as of the 17 transition. So somebody who may be working at this 18 right now and say, gee, I don't see that channel, 19 after the transition may very well see the channel. 20 To keep it simple, on the antenna side 21 one of the things we've been trying to advise people 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 170 is try what you have first, because in many cases it 1 will work, if not most cases, perfectly well; to not 2 rush out and buy a new antenna and incur that expense 3 without trying what you have. 4 Secondly, most of the stations are moving 5 to new UHF channels, and for consumers if they had 6 not hooked up their UHF antenna, either the one that 7 looks like a little bow tie or the little wire loop 8 antenna, they didn't have a UHF antenna, and so 9 without a UHF antenna you're not going to see the 10 channels. 11 Then lastly, if you have been watching 12 stations, particularly UHF, with a lot of snow on 13 them, you are at least approaching what's called the 14 digital cliff. The digital cliff is effectively with 15 the digital signals if you've got enough signal 16 strength up to a particular point it will look 17 terrific; if it gets too weak, as opposed to analog 18 where it just got snowier and snowier -- and some 19 people were willing to watch those -- it just goes 20 over the edge. 21 Those antennas are -- some people have 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 171 described the digital signals as being a bit finicky 1 and to some extent they are. So we try to encourage 2 people to move your antenna around a little bit. I 3 can talk about my personal experience. I got an 4 antenna and I set it up and I only had 11 channels. 5 I said, gee, something doesn't seem right. I just 6 happened to lay this (indicating) on the floor in a 7 position that you would not have expected to have 8 been very good. Suddenly I had 25 channels. 9 So just moving your antenna a little bit 10 can make a big difference. Yes, you have to do the 11 rescan. Yes, it takes a little bit of time sometimes 12 to redo the scan. But I think we would encourage 13 folks first, try what they have. Make sure you've 14 got the UHF antenna, move it around a little bit 15 first. 16 Then let's say you've done all those 17 things and you're still missing a channel or two. 18 One of the things that we did, we published maps this 19 past December, that are all accessible on our web 20 site by market. In the handout that we passed 21 around, the one thing that I'm going to touch on, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 172 because I gave you copies of things most of you 1 probably saw before, publications we put out on what 2 to do for setting up your converter box, what to do 3 about your antenna and so forth. But on these last 4 few pages we had some samples of the maps that were 5 published. 6 I will tell you some caveats. Yes, they 7 are technical. What the maps try to show on those 8 last three and four pages, there's a dotted line 9 that's the analog coverage and then there is a solid 10 line that is the digital coverage. At the tops of 11 the pages it shows what the analog channel was and 12 what the digital channel was. 13 So I've turned for example here to 14 Orlando, Florida, WMFE-TV. It's about five or six 15 pages from the back. So what this is showing is a 16 case where the digital conversation coverage is 17 actually much greater than what the analog coverage 18 is, and those folks -- we should have more consumers 19 able to get their channels than were before. 20 A few caveats about these charts and just 21 the way nature works. Any of these propagation 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 173 charts are statistical. So what they're showing is 1 that at the point 50 percent of all households are 2 going to get that signal 90 percent of the time. 3 That's the same sorts of techniques that were used 4 for analog as well. It's statistical just because of 5 the variations in the hills. 6 And none of these take into account 7 buildings. So if I am at this point and I've got a 8 skyscraper in front of me, well, that skyscraper is 9 going to block the signal to some extent, and just 10 because I show a point on the map that says I'm going 11 to get the signal it does not necessarily mean that 12 it's going to be there. 13 So these lines that we show are not solid 14 lines. They're not the digital cliff. They're 15 trying to show in general here are the areas where 16 signals may look better, here are the areas where 17 signals map get a little poorer. 18 Let me see if we just flip to the next 19 page. We've got WACX. This is a case where the 20 antenna tower moved. You can see the analog coverage 21 was what I'll describe as north here and the digital 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 174 coverage, even though it has expanded, some of the 1 folks on the north side won't have -- won't be in 2 that service area. 3 The Commission was trying to take some 4 actions such as allowing for translators to be 5 deployed, and some of this may get better over time. 6 But I would venture that -- and Cathy talked about 7 this a bit before -- that the folks up here who are 8 in this orange or red area (indicating), telling them 9 to buy a new antenna is not necessarily going to pull 10 in that station. 11 I want to draw a distinction here between 12 this is station-specific as opposed to saying these 13 folks aren't going to get digital TV, because they 14 will. But this relocation -- and we've got a number 15 that may have occurred just because the original 16 tower couldn't handle the transition or they've 17 reshaped their service area to better match the 18 market and so forth. 19 I'll flip to one more (indicating). Alan 20 just pointed out on that last chart that many more 21 people on the southern end are going to get that 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 175 signal than did before. 1 MR. STILLWELL: Where the green is, 2 that's new viewers that'll get service that didn't 3 get service before. 4 MR. KNAPP: So this next one is KTXT-TV, 5 and a couple of things happened here. You can see 6 the dotted line for the analog service area is 7 greater than the digital. Some of the stations as of 8 the transition date have not yet been able to fully 9 maximize their facilities. Part of that is because 10 just having enough folks who can move the antenna 11 from the side to the top couldn't all be accomplished 12 within the time period. 13 So this is going to continue to improve 14 over time. So some of these folks here who may not -15 - who may lose that signal initially will pick it up 16 as the station maximizes. 17 So as we've looked at this overall, in 18 most cases people are going to get the channels that 19 they had before, but there may be one or two spots 20 that they didn't. 21 So we published all these maps. They're 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 176 available on the web site. We've got the linkage 1 here. But we understand expecting consumers to get 2 on line and trying to figure out is very daunting. 3 So one of the things that we're doing is examining 4 how can we distill this information in a simple form, 5 first of all, to get it out to the people in the call 6 centers and so forth, so that when somebody calls in 7 and says, I'm missing channel such-and-such, they get 8 an answer that is consistent with what's going on in 9 that market, so that we don't tell people to go buy a 10 new antenna when we don't think it's going to solve 11 the problem anyway. 12 We're also looking -- I think you may 13 have heard earlier this morning -- about whether 14 there's something we can put out that shows the 15 signal strengths of the different stations. Again, 16 usually I don't put together consumers and signal 17 strengths just because -- again, we're not looking 18 for consumers to be engineers, but how can we convey 19 the information to consumers in a way that they can 20 understand what's going to happen in their areas. So 21 we're working on that. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 177 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Could I interrupt? 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes, we can make 2 this informal. 3 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: My question is, you 4 mentioned that one of the reasons that they might 5 have changed is they determined that for market 6 reasons it was better to shift. Was there any 7 accountability in making those decisions? I guess 8 I'm worried. I would think there's going to be a lot 9 of disgruntled consumers out there that are losing 10 stations. So is there anybody looking at, anybody 11 reviewing these decisions to shift the locations? 12 That's the first half of my question. 13 The second half is, if there was, or even 14 if there wasn't, was there any consideration given to 15 whether or not those people would be covered by other 16 circles? So for example, if their local NBC 17 affiliate was moving, maybe they would just simply be 18 covered by the next town over NBC affiliate. 19 MR. KNAPP: First of all, to answer the 20 first part of the question here, Commission policies 21 permitted these kinds of moves. You're absolutely 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 178 right, even if there's a net gain and many more 1 consumers are getting that signal than before, you 2 still need to be concerned about the ones who lose 3 it. 4 I think we have been trying to focus on 5 that more recently, and what can we do to at least 6 facilitate those broadcasters in re-covering those 7 areas. That's what the translators are about and so 8 forth. Some of that obviously cannot all happen if 9 the date were to hold, or necessarily even by June. 10 But it can continue to improve. 11 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: So the FCC is on 12 this, in other words? 13 MR. KNAPP: Yes. 14 MR. STILLWELL: I can maybe add a little 15 more on that. The fact is that television stations 16 have always over time modified their service areas 17 for all kinds of reasons. In most cases they like to 18 increase their service area whenever they can. But 19 sometimes there's reasons to change their coverage 20 and the usually has to do with changes in market. 21 The designated market area, which is a 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 179 Nielsen measure or a Nielsen descriptor -- and it 1 looks like you're familiar with that -- they change. 2 Program rights are generally sold on a DMA basis, so 3 if your signal covers a new DMA designation that 4 really isn't part of your old DMA then the program 5 rights owners are going to want more money for that 6 programming to cover the portion that's out of your 7 DMA where people generally are watching you on cable, 8 because that defines those rights. 9 So stations are very sensitive to those 10 kinds of things and if it looks like in the long term 11 they're not going to be covering that DMA then 12 they'll look to do something different to cover the 13 people that they're getting paid for. 14 MR. KNAPP: The second part of your 15 question, I'm sorry, I forgot it for a moment. 16 You're absolutely right. In many of these cases 17 there's another network affiliate that's covering 18 that market. We know that consumers, however, 19 they've got favorite stations and that may not always 20 be a satisfactory answer. We're trying to zero in on 21 the spots where there is no other network station and 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 180 how do we make sure that that gets in there. 1 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Okay, thanks. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can you take some 3 more questions? 4 MR. KNAPP: Sure. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Nixy, okay. Then 6 Brandon. 7 MS. SANTINI: Presenting consumers with 8 coverage footprint maps, it's kind of -- it's not 9 that helpful. I'm an engineer, I understand coverage 10 and I understand that, but not everyone understands 11 that. Is there a way that the FCC, you guys who are 12 the experts on coverage, can identify beforehand --13 you know where the signal is going to be and where 14 it's going to be a little bad -- and identify those 15 spots beforehand, start working with broadcasters so 16 that these people who are going to be basically out 17 of signal when they used to have a signal and 18 dependent on over-the-air transmission, where they 19 can be helped right away? 20 If we're talking about a delay on the 21 transition, that's time that we can use so that we 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 181 can basically minimize the impact on those consumers. 1 In Puerto Rico we have so many consumers receive 2 over-the-air transmission. They don't have the 3 facility of using cable TV because cable TV is not 4 there, and they are out there in the mountains, 5 hanging from the mountains. 6 I don't think Puerto Rico has that 7 exclusive characteristic. I know that in many places 8 in the United States you have people in the mountains 9 and they used to receive some analog signal and they 10 benefited from that. Part of this transition, the 11 whole thing is related to public safety: How can we 12 provide public safety information to those consumers 13 that receive over-the-air transmission if they are no 14 longer going to be receiving it even though they have 15 the best antenna and the best converter box? 16 So is there any way locally in the 17 different regions that the FCC can start producing 18 something to assess that issue? 19 MR. KNAPP: Let me try to break it down 20 because I think we're in exactly the same place. The 21 maps do show the areas, but how you translate that 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 182 into information that's useful to consumers -- and 1 absolutely, we want to identify the spots where maybe 2 we can do something about it. 3 MS. SANTINI: Well, for me as a consumer, 4 let's say I call the center and say: I have no 5 signal. Oh, yes, you're located in a place where 6 you're not going to have a signal. Thank you. 7 That's not very useful for me. 8 MR. KNAPP: Right. I would break down, 9 as opposed to a single station, because we're not 10 talking about somebody who will get no TV service 11 because everybody should be getting -- 12 MS. SANTINI: Something. 13 MR. KNAPP: -- some signal. But it may 14 be an individual channel that they had before and 15 it's either now from a different network affiliate --16 and again, the ones we would be concerned about that 17 they lost that network affiliate altogether. 18 So you're absolutely right that we need 19 to as we're going through this be focused on those 20 spots and what we can do about it in advance, and 21 we're working on it. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 183 MS. TRISTANI: I didn't want to -- good 1 to see you. 2 MR. KNAPP: Good to see you, too. 3 MS. TRISTANI: I didn't want to get into 4 this, but I think the Commissioner was getting to 5 also, I think we have an FCC that will be more 6 proactive. It's already being more proactive, an FCC 7 that will look to work with broadcasters in saying, 8 can we -- what can we do to make this better, and not 9 just say, okay, we'll just accept that the signal 10 can't get there. But there are places where it can 11 be fixed. There can be signal translators, what have 12 you. So I think that's what we're looking for. 13 MR. KNAPP: Absolutely. 14 MS. TRISTANI: I just wanted to make sure 15 we're all on the same page. 16 MR. KNAPP: The Commission took some 17 steps in that area in late December when it allowed 18 stations to compete or to apply noncompetitively for 19 translators to serve areas within their old analog 20 service area. So it gives them the opportunity to 21 try and fill in. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 184 I think it's well, the working together 1 with the broadcasters, because in some cases -- these 2 are maps and we're already talking to the folks who 3 are out in the field about, well, are you actually 4 seeing these things, because sometimes you'll see 5 something on a map and people will tell you, no, 6 that's not really happening, I'm getting the signal 7 just fine. And we want to know as well about the 8 ones where we think the signal should be there and 9 they're not getting it, and try to figure out why 10 that's happening, and work with the broadcasters on 11 what can we do to remedy some of these things. 12 MS. TRISTANI: Can I just make one point, 13 and maybe I am wrong because I am not an engineer. 14 But this is not only a mountains problem. This is15 going to happen in New York City. 16 MR. KNAPP: Right. 17 MS. TRISTANI: You'll have digital cliffs 18 in New York City, although maybe less overall. So I 19 just wanted to make sure that everybody knew it's not 20 just in rural. The buildings, as we said, get in the 21 way. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 185 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can I also say that 1 this might be an issue that we want to discuss in the 2 working group and make it a recommendation of our 3 committee to take action. 4 Brandon. 5 MR. STEPHENS: A couple of different 6 concerns I have for our region. One, we've already 7 addressed the issues of rural areas and Commissioner 8 Santini has made excellent points on not receiving 9 broadcasts or accessibility. I have a concern too 10 with the fact that the translators are neglected in 11 this, because that's how we receive our television 12 transmissions in the mountains of western North 13 Carolina and across many of the reservations in 14 Indian country. 15 Number one, I wanted to talk about the 16 addressing of that, because just the primary signal 17 that they put out, that's what they're addressing for 18 television transmissions. And this television 19 transmission is going to be a little bit weaker in 20 most cases compared to what they would normally put 21 out on analog. We're going to be in the dark in 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 186 western North Carolina in some cases. 1 MR. STILLWELL: We're not requiring the 2 analog transmitters to turn off on February 17th. 3 You know that, right? 4 MR. STEPHENS: No, I wasn't aware of 5 that. The television stations just told me that, 6 that's it, we're not taking care of that. So that 7 message comes to me saying there's no television. 8 MR. STILLWELL: I think one thing that 9 has to happen, though, is that the translator owner, 10 the station, has to buy the converter that converts 11 the digital signal into a signal that the analog 12 transmitter can retransmit. So you need some sort of 13 a converter box there. 14 MR. STEPHENS: So in the rural areas are 15 we going to start watching analog translator 16 television, is that what you're saying? Am I hearing 17 you right? 18 MR. KNAPP: Let me take a step back for a 19 minute to get to your first question. I've heard 20 indirectly in a couple of cases where the translator 21 didn't have enough signal from the digital to convert 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 187 it for the analog transmission. I think we'd like to 1 hear about those cases and see what can be done, 2 because they shouldn't go dark even if we don't have 3 a mandatory requirement. 4 Alan is correct, the translators are not 5 required to switch to digital at the same time, as 6 you know. Some of them are and some of them aren't 7 ready, and some of it's a funding issue and there are 8 things being worked on to do that. So there will be 9 still some analog translators out there for a period 10 of time. I expect that over time more and more of 11 them will be going to digital. 12 MR. STEPHENS: I have a concern there 13 that in my region I tell them, buy, buy, buy the 14 converter box, and then when they flip it on they 15 can't get television and they say, well, this thing 16 doesn't work, but the analog signal still works off 17 your translator in that area. So what kind of 18 message do I put out? 19 MR. KNAPP: You can get, as you know, a 20 pass-through box that can still receive the analog 21 signals and pass those through, as well as the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 188 digital. 1 MR. STILLWELL: Yes, it's real important. 2 MR. STEPHENS: The next question I have 3 or the next concern that I have too is that in the 4 case of conversion, if I'm unable to pick up the5 regular television signal that I normally picked up, 6 but say in the conversion that I'm able to pick up 7 the neighboring channel. That's a concern to me 8 because as a broadcaster I know that when I was in 9 radio we only put out the signal that we thought the 10 audience would be interested in covering. 11 So really whenever I see an EAS alert and 12 it doesn't cover my area, I'm not putting out that 13 storm information or not putting out any other kind 14 of information. But if I'm picking up another 15 television station that doesn't cover my area, I may 16 not get emergency information. That's concerning to 17 me. 18 MR. STILLWELL: I think that is a 19 concern. 20 MR. STEPHENS: I mean, I don't know how -21 - if there's a policy. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 189 MR. STILLWELL: As a broadcaster, not 1 picking up the --2 MR. STEPHENS: Because what we're down to 3 is it's great that I'll be able to see NBC, CBS, ABC, 4 get the entertainment, but regardless of whether it's 5 captioned or if it covers the area or what-not, the 6 information is important. 7 MR. STILLWELL: It's like the Gatlinburg 8 station you're watching, but now you have to watch it 9 from Ashville and the Gatlinburg station broadcasts 10 an emergency message for the people in its area, but 11 the Ashville station doesn't provide that and then 12 the people over there don't see it. Some of that has 13 happened in the transitions. 14 MR. KNAPP: They're required to cover 15 effectively the DMA, the market. But in the past 16 there were some stations that extended out beyond 17 their home market and people might have affiliated 18 themselves with that market, but they still would be 19 -- should be receiving the station that's close to 20 them. 21 MR. STEPHENS: I understand. But you 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 190 see, there exists that potential. And I know this 1 might be an issue that you guys can't address or it's 2 going to go down into some other works. But I'm 3 concerned that one of the issues here that we're 4 dealing with is information, public safety, that sort 5 of thing. But I'm concerned now if what I'm hearing 6 is that I may or may not be getting the primary 7 station, but as long as I get that -- I need to be 8 sure that the information I'm getting, if there's a 9 flood, if there's a thunderstorm, if there is a 10 snowstorm or a terrorist attack -- that information 11 may not be local to me. 12 MR. KNAPP: It still should be coming 13 through on the channels that you're watching. 14 MR. STEPHENS: Or at least I'm saying 15 let's be concerned with the policy of how that needs 16 to happen. 17 MR. STILLWELL: I think maybe at the 18 grassroots level, if let's say a station's providing 19 -- people are taking coverage from a station they 20 didn't really watch before, maybe that station ought 21 to be aware that those new people are watching and so 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 191 that it makes sure that it transmits emergency 1 information for those people. You can kind of work 2 on that at the grassroots level to make sure they 3 understand the new dynamics of their market, at least 4 until this interim when everything settles down. 5 We're dealing with a lot of those 6 transitional questions here. 7 MR. STEPHENS: I don't mean to give you a 8 hard time, but it is a concern. 9 MR. STILLWELL: It is. It is a concern. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. 11 Lousy, you had your card up before. Do 12 you still have a question? And then John has a 13 question. 14 MS. HAMLIN: I'm not a technical person, 15 but what we have been hearing from people already 16 having digital TV is that there are already terrific 17 problems with captioning, pass-through captioning, 18 analog captions, the old 608 as opposed to 708. My 19 question I guess will have to be general because I 20 wish I could be technical. But let me ask just 21 basically, to what extent are you working with the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 192 broadcasters to make sure the equipment they have 1 will get the kind of captions -- again, it's an 2 emergency issue for me personally. I'm worried that 3 people who need captioning won't see the captions 4 that they need in an emergency situation. 5 MR. KNAPP: A couple of things. I didn't 6 look on the agenda. Have you got closed captioning 7 later on the agenda? 8 MS. HAMLIN: No. 9 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: It's been mentioned 10 the whole day. 11 MR. KNAPP: Okay. But I believe that 12 Chairman Copps made in his remarks a commitment to 13 the agency to try to address the closed captioning 14 issues. So I expect that we will be working together 15 with all of the principals, not just the over the 16 air. 17 I will tell you, as we've talked before, 18 the converter boxes have all been checked to make 19 sure. It does get complicated because you can either 20 switch it on in the box or you can switch it on in 21 the television and I wish it could be made simpler, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 193 but I don't know how. So absolutely the Commission 1 is concerned about this. I think we're dedicated to 2 addressing those issues. 3 MR. STILLWELL: We have requirements that 4 the 608 captions, which are basically the down-5 converted 708 captions, are provided on the digital 6 signals. But a lot of times there are problems with 7 the captioning that comes in from the program 8 material and how well it translates over. There are 9 people working on that. Our Disabilities Rights 10 Office is working on that with the folks, and 11 probably you folks too. 12 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Actually not. 13 MR. STILLWELL: They're not? 14 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: No. 15 MR. STILLWELL: They call me regularly, 16 seriously. 17 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I mean, no one's 18 worked on it. It's very clear that -- 19 MR. STILLWELL: Actually, I answered 20 questions from you, Karen. 21 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: We've been 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 194 complaining about it non-stop. But it sounds to me 1 like nothing has really been done yet, which will --2 we're moving forward, we're not looking back. But I 3 just did want to clarify there's a lot of work ahead. 4 MR. KNAPP: I do agree there's a lot of 5 work ahead, as we work with a lot of the program 6 people, who aren't necessarily focused on the end 7 product where their stuff goes. 8 MR. STILLWELL: We have a lot to learn. 9 MR. KNAPP: We do have a lot to learn. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: John. 11 MR. COLE: Thank you. 12 I am interested to know if there's any 13 particular technical lessons learned from the Hawaii 14 transition? Most of the feedback I heard about was 15 about coverage and technical type issues rather than 16 consumer education and being aware that you needed a 17 converter box or anything like that. I know you said 18 you expect most people to maybe lose a station or 19 two, but I've heard of some who get no signals now 20 and they had several analog stations before. 21 MR. KNAPP: I think we're still 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 195 collecting Hawaii data and we'll have a look at that, 1 just like I think the big thing that popped out of 2 Wilmington was this issue of the change in the 3 service area and the impact of that. But the fact 4 that we had Wilmington gave us a heads up so that 5 going into Hawaii by the time we got there we had 6 done maps. And aside from kind of the variations 7 that happened with the model, actually from what I've 8 heard back we kind of saw what we expected in terms 9 of the coverage and the reception. 10 Hawaii is particularly challenging just 11 because of the terrain. We have spots where people 12 say, well, I can't get a digital signal there, but 13 they never got the analog either. 14 MR. STILLWELL: Some of those stations 15 did change their coverage because they moved from 16 10,000 feet down to 4,000 feet because of those 17 environmental concerns. So there were just changes 18 there. 19 MR. COLE: So, seeing pretty much what 20 you expected, is there plans for the total transition 21 to try to help the broadcasters make adjustments 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 196 prior to the transition? 1 MR. KNAPP: I think, yes, in the broader 2 context we talked about before, taking this 3 information from the maps and looking at the changes 4 in the service area, what can we do? Is there 5 anything we can do beforehand to make sure those 6 areas are filled in, if that's possible, or at least 7 know what the expectations are. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay. I think we've 9 exhausted the questions. You know, we may want to, 10 if you don't mind, call on you in between this 11 meeting and our next meeting if we have further 12 questions --13 MR. KNAPP: Absolutely. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: -- because this is 15 very helpful, very, very helpful. 16 MR. KNAPP: It's just the questions 17 about, can you come out to my house and fix my set. 18 (Laughter.) 19 MR. KNAPP: Those are the ones I worry 20 about. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can you give us your 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 197 home number? 1 (Laughter.) 2 MR. KNAPP: Thank you all. We appreciate 3 it. 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. We 5 appreciate it. 6 MR. STILLWELL: Just last night my mother 7 -- and she has cable -- said: Alan, you need to help 8 me with this; what have I got to do for the 9 transition? I said: Mom. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you. That's 11 great. 12 (Applause.) 13 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thomas Wyatt just 14 handed me -- this is fantastic. the Nielsen data, 15 the February 2009 update on digital readiness in U.S. 16 households, this is fantastic. So I'm going to pass 17 this around. 18 Everybody sit tight. We're a little 19 behind here, but we are going to move right into our 20 working group meeting. If there is anyone who does 21 not want to participate in the working group 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 198 discussion, you don't need to. This is a working 1 group, not a meeting of the whole. Right, Scott? 2 MR. MARSHALL: Correct. 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay. So if we do 4 have any recommendations from this working group, we 5 will not take them up right now. We will take them 6 up when we reconvene the meeting of the whole CAC. 7 (Whereupon, at 12:20 p.m., the CAC 8 meeting was recessed and the DTV Working Group met. 9 CAC reconvened at 2:03 p.m.) 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: At this time the CAC 11 will reconvene as a whole and our transcript 12 continues, broadcast continues again. 13 Ann Bobeck and I are working on the first 14 recommendation. Let's see. I think Charles and 15 another are going to work on the second one. 16 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: We already did some 17 of them. I'm not sure what you have, but I have a 18 whole list of them. I did them. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: You did 3. 20 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I did 3. 21 MR. COLE: I did 4. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 199 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can we just go in 1 the corner here? Charles, if you want to join us, if 2 we can just go in the corner. 3 Let's take a ten-minute break. Excellent 4 idea. 5 (Recess from 2:05 p.m. to 2:29 p.m.) 6 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Public safety has 7 been an issue that we have talked about as it relates 8 to the digital television transition and several of 9 you have asked to have this discussion at our CAC 10 meeting. We do indeed have, you'll see on your 11 agenda, the "Associate Bureau Chief." However, lo 12 and behold, we have actually the Bureau Chief, 13 correct? Congratulations are in order that you were 14 just named Bureau Chief? 15 DTV TRANSITION AND PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES 16 MR. FURTH: I was in fact named Bureau 17 Chief. It becomes effective, I believe, at 5:00 18 o'clock today. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Ah. Well, 20 congratulations. We'll be the first to offer our 21 congratulations to you. Thank you so much for coming 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 200 in. This will serve as an introductory on the topic 1 and we promise to invite you back. I won't promise, 2 but I will hope next time we won't keep you waiting 3 like we did this time. 4 I thank you, David, for joining us. 5 MR. FURTH: Thank you very much. I'm 6 delighted to be here. Before I begin, I'd also like 7 to introduce on my left Jeff Cohen, who is Special 8 Counsel to the Public Safety and Homeland Security 9 Bureau. Jeff is really one of our leading experts on 10 700 megahertz and some of the issues that we'll be 11 talking about today. 12 Now, as I understand it the question that 13 folks here were interested in our addressing in 14 relationship to the DTV transition is the potential 15 impact on public safety operations in the 700-16 megahertz band, and in particular the impact if the 17 legislation that's currently pending to move the 18 deadline from February 17th to June. If that 19 legislation were passed, what will the potential 20 impact be on public safety operations in the 700-21 megahertz band? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 201 So I want to give you a little bit of 1 perspective on how public safety in that band is 2 currently constituted, how the DTV transition, 3 regardless of when it occurs, would affect operations 4 of public safety licensees in the band and the 5 potential impact if there is to be an extension of 6 the deadline until June. 7 We'll just talk for a few minutes and 8 then Jeff and I are both happy to take any questions 9 that you might have. We really welcome the 10 opportunity to be here. I hope this is certainly the 11 first time that I've appeared before the CAC in this 12 capacity. I hope and expect that it will not be the 13 last. I look forward to an ongoing dialogue on this 14 and many other issues, because public safety is --15 it's a public security issue, but it is consumer 16 issue, because ultimately it's consumers that benefit 17 from our ensuring that public safety networks operate 18 so that they can reach help when they need it and so 19 that first responders can get that help to them as 20 quickly as possible. 21 So let me talk a little bit about public 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 202 safety in the 700-megahertz band. There is a 24-1 megahertz block of spectrum in the 700-megahertz band 2 that's been allocated to public safety. For purposes 3 of DTV, the simplest way to explain it is that it 4 corresponds to two sets of television channels, which 5 are Channels 63 and 64 and 68 and 69 on your TV dial. 6 Within that 24-megahertz block, the 7 Commission has actually divided it into two segments, 8 one of which is allocated for broadband operations 9 and one of which is allocated for narrowband 10 operations. I'll talk a little bit about each one. 11 The practical significance of the digital 12 television transition is that until it occurs public 13 safety licensees cannot operate in those areas where 14 there is a Channel 63 or 64 or 68 or 69 incumbent, 15 both because they could receive interference, but 16 more importantly because until the transition occurs 17 they are required to protect those incumbents from 18 interference. Therefore, in those areas of the 19 country where we have incumbents on those channels --20 and that's not in all areas of the country; there are 21 only certain ones -- public safety entities that want 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 203 to operate on the 700-megahertz band will have to 1 wait until the transition occurs and those 2 broadcasters move out of their portion of the 3 spectrum, at which point they can commence 4 operations, though it is important to emphasize there 5 are many parts of the country where there are no 6 incumbents on those channels and therefore public 7 safety on the narrowband side has the ability and in 8 fact many public safety entities already are 9 operating on the 700-megahertz band, and the DTV 10 transition will not have any impact on those systems 11 that are already operating. 12 Let me talk a little bit about broadband 13 versus narrowband in the 700-megahertz band. With 14 respect to broadband, as many of you may know, the 15 Commission has been engaged in a rulemaking 16 proceeding to lay the foundation for creation of a 17 nationwide interoperable broadband public safety 18 network in the 700-megahertz band, and proposals have 19 involved the use of a public-private partnership to 20 develop the network. 21 That is of course a subject on which 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 204 there has been a great deal of discussion and there 1 will continue to be a great deal of discussion before 2 the new Commission because that rulemaking is still 3 pending. 4 For purposes of our discussion today with 5 respect to the DTV transition, really as a practical 6 matter because that proceeding is still ongoing and 7 the ultimate disposition of the broadband portion of 8 the spectrum is still to be decided by the 9 Commission, it's unlikely to be affected by the 10 timing of the digital television transition, whether 11 it will occur next February, within a couple of 12 weeks, or in June if the pending legislation were to 13 be passed. 14 Really, when we're talking about 15 broadband deployment in the band we're talking about 16 something that is in the future that's obviously 17 extremely important to the Commission and to the 18 development of public safety technology. But the 19 digital television transition itself, the timing 20 options that we're talking about should not have a 21 significant impact. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 205 The timing does have a bit more impact on 1 narrowband operations by public safety entities in 2 the 700-megahertz band. By narrowband, typically 3 we're talking about conventional voice operations and 4 perhaps some limited data, not high-speed data 5 operations, that use narrowband channels. So this is 6 more likely the public safety operation that we see, 7 we have seen in other bands as well, the sort of 8 traditional types of public safety first responder 9 radio networks. 10 There are a number of public safety 11 agencies that have already commenced operation in 12 areas of the country where there are no issues of 13 interference with the existing television or digital 14 television broadcast stations because they don't 15 operate on those particular channels, 63-64, 68-69. 16 In those areas where there are still 17 broadcasters operating, then obviously the timing of 18 the DTV transition becomes a significant issue. 19 Under the options that are currently being 20 considered, though -- that is, either the transition 21 will take place on February 17th or, if the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 206 legislation passes as it's currently drafted, it will 1 provide for a transition in June -- clearly it's an 2 issue of concern to public safety as to when that 3 transition is going to occur. But we do not have 4 evidence at this point that the impact of that type 5 of delay is of enormous significance to public 6 safety. That's for several reasons. 7 First of all, we have procedures in 8 place, rules in place, that would allow public safety 9 to move onto these channels very quickly after the 10 DTV transition, whenever it occurs, and indeed they 11 can do much of their planning and preparation ahead 12 of time. We don't need -- at least for narrowband 13 services, we do not need to conduct a rulemaking. 14 The rules are in place, the licensing mechanisms are 15 in place. 16 Let me explain a little bit about how 17 those licensing mechanisms work. Some of the 700-18 megahertz narrowband spectrum is already allocated by 19 blanket license to each state. What that means is 20 those individual states already have the right to 21 deploy facilities in the band under those blanket 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 207 licenses without having to come back to the 1 Commission and obtain additional licenses from the 2 FCC. In addition, the states can and in some cases 3 have entered into arrangements with state -- sorry --4 local jurisdictions within the state, that allow 5 those local jurisdictions to use the channels under 6 the authority of the state by agreement. 7 So again, when we're talking about those 8 types of applications under the authority of the 9 state's license there's no further licensing that's 10 required by the Commission. What that means is that 11 if you're in a state where there is an analog, let's 12 say an analog Channel 63 broadcaster just as an 13 example, that's occupying channels that are part of 14 what has been licensed on a blanket basis to the 15 state, as soon as that broadcaster has vacated as a 16 part of the transition the state has the authority to 17 deploy facilities on that spectrum without having to 18 come to the Commission to obtain a license. 19 The rest of the narrowband spectrum 20 that's not licensed on a state basis is licensed by 21 individual applications that come to the FCC pursuant 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 208 to prior FCC-approved regional planning committee, or 1 RPC, plans. The RPCs are public safety committees in 2 -- largely the regions correspond to the states, but 3 not entirely. But the RPCs are public safety 4 committees within each state that develop 5 coordination plans within the respective regions to 6 maximize use of the 700-megahertz spectrum. If an 7 applicant wants to use spectrum that's subject to 8 that plan, they first go to the RPC, get their 9 approval and ensure that what use they want to make 10 of the spectrum is consistent with the plan. Then 11 once they've done that, they file an application with 12 us, which can be granted very quickly. 13 Again, those procedures are already in 14 place. There are 55 regions and therefore 55 RPCs in 15 the U.S. Not all of them at this point have 16 developed regional plans. At this point there are 13 17 that have developed plans that have been approved by 18 the FCC. Other regions are in the process of 19 developing plans. But even in the regions where 20 there is no RPC plan, FCC-approved RPC plan in place 21 currently, there are still options that allow public 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 209 safety licensees in those jurisdictions to come to 1 the Commission and obtain typically it's what we call 2 an STIA, special temporary authorization, that allows 3 them to commence operations even before the plan is 4 put in place. And there are some jurisdictions --5 Louisiana and Mississippi are a couple of examples --6 that have used that approach. 7 So where we stand now in terms of 8 narrowband use of the spectrum is that there are 9 probably several dozen public safety entities across 10 the country, including some statewide systems, that 11 have already deployed systems, narrowband systems, in 12 areas where there are no broadcast incumbents on the 13 public safety channels. These include Illinois, 14 Louisiana, Mississippi, Virginia, Nebraska, North 15 Carolina, Arkansas, Colorado, and Ohio. 16 There also have been some significant 17 municipal deployments, including Las Vegas, Phoenix, 18 and Mesa, Arizona. Other public safety entities will 19 have to wait for the DTV transition until they can 20 deploy, or at least wait for the incumbents in their21 area to vacate. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 210 This is an important point in the draft 1 legislation if it were to be adopted, because that 2 legislation gives broadcasters the option of moving 3 early. So broadcasters have the option, if they 4 wish, to move before the June deadline. Therefore, 5 if an individual broadcaster were to choose to do 6 that, then public safety entities in that affected 7 area could potentially move onto that spectrum sooner 8 than the June deadline if that were to be adopted. 9 So the overall impact of a possible delay 10 -- one of the things that we've been looking at as to 11 what is the anticipated demand for narrowband use of 12 the public safety spectrum in those areas where there 13 are still broadcast incumbents. At the moment we 14 only have a handful of applicants what have 15 specifically come to us and appear to be anticipating 16 the broadcaster leaving as part of the transition so 17 that they can deploy. 18 A couple of examples. Scottsdale,19 Arizona, is one. In our own back yard, Prince 20 George's County and the State of Maryland are others. 21 There may be other public safety entities that are 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 211 waiting to see what happens. This could include 1 state entities, perhaps some entities within states 2 that are already authorized. As I said before, they 3 don't necessarily have to file applications with us, 4 but I think as a practical matter, based at least on 5 what we know now, we don't have evidence that the 6 type of delay that we're talking about here is going 7 to create a significant roadblock to public safety 8 plans to deploy in the band. It's obviously 9 something we're going to monitor carefully. 10 We are going to continue to get 11 information from the public safety stakeholders that 12 have an interest, as well as others that are 13 participating in the transition. But that is our 14 best assessment of the situation as we sit here 15 today. 16 With that, Jeff, I don't know if there's 17 anything you want to add. Otherwise, we're happy to 18 take any questions if you have them. 19 (Lights come on.) 20 MR. FURTH: And I guess the lights have 21 come back on. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 212 MR. COHEN: I was wondering if that was 1 public safety. 2 MR. FURTH: That wasn't us. 3 Yes, please? 4 MR. STOUT (through interpreter): I want 5 to make sure I understand what you were just 6 discussing. For example, if there's an ice storm in 7 Maryland and I watch my TV, I have cable service and 8 I know there's a public safety channel, I know what 9 it is. I think you said 63-64. However, I go to 10 that channel and I get some information on the 11 weather or any safety issues related to where I live, 12 correct? 13 MR. FURTH: That's possible. But maybe I 14 have left a misimpression, because the public safety 15 operations that we are talking about would be the 16 radio operations of first responders. That is, when 17 we're talking about narrowband operations in the 700-18 megahertz band on public safety entities, we're not 19 talking about television broadcasting. What we're 20 talking about is the radio systems that the police, 21 the fire department, the EMTs use to communicate with22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 213 one another and respond to emergencies. 1 So if I left a misimpression, I 2 apologize. But I hope that maybe clears up the 3 question that you have. 4 MR. STOUT: Okay, thank you. 5 MR. FURTH: Any other questions? 6 (No response.) 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Thank you very much, 8 David. I really appreciate it. Again, we definitely 9 will have time to get you back here for further 10 discussion and we appreciate it. Thank you for your 11 patience in waiting it out to the end of the day 12 here, the end of our day. I'm sure not yours. 13 MR. FURTH: Thank you all. I wish 14 everyone here a safe journey to wherever it is you've 15 come to visit us from. 16 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: And congratulations 17 on your 5:00 p.m. Acting Bureau Chief. 18 (Applause.) 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: A couple things. 20 We're looking at our agenda. Here's how we now look 21 here. We're next going to take public comments if 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 214 there are some, but we will make sure that we have 1 that opportunity, as always. We have to go through 2 our recommendations, and we also do want to talk 3 about going forward. We want to make sure that 4 everybody is in the room when we talk about where we 5 go next. 6 So a couple thoughts. One is that I want 7 to make sure that we give fair consideration to each 8 of our recommendations and that we don't rush through 9 them, and that everybody has an opportunity to 10 carefully review each of our recommendations and make 11 any comments and changes that they so desire. It is 12 the nature of this process that we don't have a lot 13 of preparation time sometimes, so we are in that sort 14 of position today. 15 There are a couple of choices we have. 16 One option is if we do feel that we need additional 17 time or if anyone feels that they want to take a look 18 at some of these recommendations and see them in 19 writing, we could -- I was just talking to Scott --20 we could have a conference call meeting of the CAC, 21 the whole CAC, next week to vote on each of these 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 215 recommendations and do it that way, not necessarily 1 the ones you have in your package, because those you 2 had an opportunity to look at, but perhaps the new 3 ones that we are proposing today that we have just 4 developed. So that's one option. 5 The other option is we can go forward and 6 consider them right now. So think about that for a 7 moment. 8 But first let me ask if there's anyone 9 here who would like to offer any public comments in 10 the room? 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I do have some 13 electronic public comments that I'm going to 14 distribute, that were just received. So this is the 15 FCC getting into the new age here. So you can take 16 these with you. 17 I also know that Ken has mentioned that -18 - I also know that, Ken, you have to leave shortly? 19 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: And I also want to 21 make sure, separate and apart from the way we do our 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 216 recommendations today, you want to make sure that we 1 schedule -- did you want to bring that question up? 2 Thank you. 3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Thanks. 4 I know that in the morning session there 5 was interest both from the Commissioners and also 6 from FCC staff in terms of getting input sooner as 7 opposed to later on the type of community-based 8 education outreach that we would recommend. So I 9 guess a couple things. One is to ask the chair if 10 she and Scott would set up such a conference call 11 next week with key FCC staff plus anyone on the CAC 12 who wants to be in on that call. 13 I guess the second question then is, if 14 such a call is possible, sort of who on the CAC would 15 be interested in taking part in it? 16 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: So this would be to 17 discuss outreach, DTV outreach? 18 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: With appropriate FCC 20 staff, and those on the CAC who would be interested. 21 This is of course, I would assume, assuming there is 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 217 a delay. 1 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Because it's one 3 week for an outreach plan otherwise. 4 Thank you. I think that's an excellent 5 idea, and unless anyone disagrees we will -- if 6 you're not here, Ken, we will plan to do that, and 7 I'll tale volunteers. And I assume you are 8 volunteering, number one, for that task force. 9 MR. McELDOWNEY: Right. Okay, thanks. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Great. Okay, so we 11 have no public comments. Now we are at the point in 12 our committee where we are considering our 13 recommendations. Yes, Gloria? 14 MS. TRISTANI: You asked us to think 15 about whether we should vote on the recommendations 16 that were previously given to us or perhaps wait 17 until next week or whatever when we can all get on 18 the call together to vote on the ones that we've been 19 discussing today. I would urge all of you to 20 consider that, because of the time sensitive nature 21 of these issues, that we should at least discuss 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 218 these recommendations today. They're not very long 1 or very complicated. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, let's see how 3 we do on our time. 4 MS. TRISTANI: We actually have quite a 5 bit of time, so I'd sure appreciate it if we could do 6 that. 7 MR. MARSHALL: It would be simpler if we 8 could adopt them now. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: It would be simpler, 10 there's no doubt about that, if we can move them 11 quickly. We can try and do that. 12 I do know that there are several of us 13 who need to leave today at 3:30. Unfortunately, I am 14 one of those. So I will disclose that, and there are 15 several others in the room who are in that position. 16 So we'll see what we can do. But we will continue to 17 go. I don't know if we will continue to have a 18 quorum or not at that point, but let's see what we 19 can do. 20 There are three in your packets. If you 21 want to take out the recommendations that are in your 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 219 packets -- let's see if there's any particular -- I'm 1 trying to see who is going to present what here. 2 Karen, I know you have -- you have the one on video 3 description. 4 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Closed captioning. 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Closed captioning 6 and video description. Do you want to present that 7 one to the committee? 8 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Sure. Gloria, I'm 9 amending that a little bit, but you'll be for that, 10 too. 11 This was actually something that was put 12 together by most of the disability group, which is 13 part of the DTV group, and also with the help of Dana 14 Mulvaney, who I mentioned before, kind of a composite 15 effort by a number of people. 16 It says: "The Commission should take 17 immediate and ongoing actions to resolve problems 18 associated with the provision of closed captions and 19 video description for provided on digital television 20 programming." And I should add that part of this 21 builds on a resolution which was already agreed upon, 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 220 which is in number 2. "In light of the rapidly 1 approaching cessation of analog transmissions 2 nationwide, the FCC should take whatever steps are 3 necessary to ensure that individuals who rely on 4 closed captioning and video description are not cut 5 off from access to emergency information and other 6 televised material when the DTV transition takes 7 place. To achieve this, the CAC recommends the 8 following actions: 9 "Number 1, the Commission should 10 immediately conduct an assessment of current and 11 anticipated problems associated with the transmission 12 and display of closed captioning and video 13 description. This effort should involve gathering 14 information on how to resolve these problems as well 15 as making this information publicly available on an 16 expedited and ongoing basis through an information 17 clearinghouse and other measures. In this manner all 18 interested parties, including engineers, 19 manufacturers, programming distributors, and 20 consumers, will have access to available technical 21 solutions. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 221 "Number 2" -- and this was the part that 1 more or less was resolved before; we built upon it 2 just a little bit to clarify some points -- "as part 3 of the effort to achieve number 1 above, the 4 Commission should convene a technical working group 5 on digital closed captioning and video description 6 that includes representatives from broadcast, cable, 7 and satellite industries, manufacturers of consumer 8 electronics, manufacturers of equipment used or 9 connected with the processing and encoding of 10 captions and video description, consumer electronic 11 retailers, captioning and video description 12 providers, and consumers of captioning and video 13 description. 14 "The working group would" -- first dot --15 "identify current and anticipated problems with the 16 transmission and display of video captioning and 17 video description." 18 Second bullet: "Evaluate the captioning 19 and video description capabilities of digital 20 equipment; and 21 Third bullet: "Devise solutions to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 222 ensure that captions and video description are passed 1 through intact to the consumer." 2 "Number 3: The Commission should assume 3 a leadership role in ensuring that TV station 4 engineers will seek the guidance and assistance they 5 need to correct technical problems related to closed 6 captioning and video description as these solutions 7 are developed. 8 "Number 4: The Commission should step up 9 its enforcement of existing closed captioning 10 applications that already apply to DTV manufacturers 11 and distributors of DTV programming under the 12 Commission's rules." 13 Now, that's what everybody has in front 14 of them. I would like to propose a fifth. Should I 15 stop there or should I go further? 16 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: You want to add to 17 your own? 18 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I do. 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, let's see. A 20 friendly amendment. 21 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Right. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 223 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Why don't you offer 1 your friendly friendly amendment. 2 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: All right. My 3 friendly amendment is: "Number five, the Commission 4 should appoint dedicated staff in its call centers" -5 - and I put an "s" because I'm still not sure whether 6 it's "center" or "centers" -- "to specifically 7 respond to questions and concerns associated with the 8 transmission and display of closed captioning and 9 video description." 10 Do you want me to read that slower? 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: "To respond to" --12 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I'm sorry, I'll read 13 it a little slower: "The Commission should appoint 14 dedicated staff in its call center(s) to 15 specifically" -- or -- "specifically to respond to 16 questions and concerns associated with the 17 transmission and display of closed captioning" -- 18 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I lost it again. 19 "To respond to questions and concerns." 20 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "Associated with" --21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: "Associated with" --22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 224 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "The transmission and 1 display of closed captioning and video description." 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, very good. 3 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: So can I make a 4 motion that this be accepted. Do we need to discuss 5 it? How do we do this? Do I make a motion first, 6 then we discuss it? 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Sure. 8 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: So I move that this 9 be adopted. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Second? 11 VOICE: Second. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Discussion? 13 (No response.) 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Hearing none, all 15 those who are in favor signify by saying aye. 16 (Chorus of ayes.) 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: All those opposed? 18 (No response.) 19 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: It's approved. Any 20 abstentions? 21 (Show of hands.) 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 225 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Sorry. One, two, 1 three. 2 MR. MARSHALL: Do you want to make a 3 record of the abstentions? 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: There are three 5 abstentions. I saw three abstentions. 6 All right. Thank you, Karen. 7 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: There is another one 9 in your packet. I think, Charles, you're presenting 10 this one; is that correct? 11 MR. BENTON: Yes. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Pull out your second 13 one there, and it's "November 2008 meeting," it 14 starts out. Charles, do you want to read the rest? 15 MR. BENTON: Yes, thank you. I think you 16 can read this quickly. It's half a page. This came 17 out of the conference call of the DTV Subcommittee 18 that the Chairman led last week, and I made this 19 suggestion. This was one of our 12 recommendations 20 in our November 14th meeting. It was number 8 21 actually and we just picked it right up from that 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 226 earlier, and out of the paragraph at the end, which I 1 will read because the rest is what we had before. 2 So the last paragraph in here says: 3 "With new leadership and a possibly new deadline for 4 the DTV transition, the CAC recommends that the FCC, 5 while redesigning its web site to make it more 6 friendly, give high priority to the creation and 7 maintenance of a DTV Consumer Forum so that consumers 8 have an online space to bring up and offer advice on 9 issues related to their personal adoption of digital 10 television technology." 11 So this is simply picking up the eighth 12 recommendation in our previous set. It seemed to me 13 as we discussed it last week that it ought to be 14 raised up among priorities and therefore given 15 special and additional mention today. 16 So I would move the adoption of this, and 17 I have another couple of things to say while I have 18 the floor. 19 VOICE: Second. 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Any discussion? 21 (No response.) 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 227 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: All those in favor 1 of this recommendation, signify by saying aye. 2 (Chorus of ayes.) 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Any opposed? 4 (No response.) 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Abstentions? 6 (No response.) 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay. 8 MR. BENTON: No abstentions. I feel 9 singled out here, very special with no abstentions. 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, Charles, you 11 want to have the floor? 12 MR. BENTON: Yes, I do. Thinking about 13 the next steps, this is a next step point. In view -14 - this actually was inspired by Commissioner Copps 15 and I'm passing this around so you'll have the paper 16 here in front of you. But I was inspired by 17 Commissioner Copps' speech to the staff here at the 18 FCC on Monday. 19 I am recommending here that the CAC 20 create a new working group for 2009-2010 -- that's 21 the season we're in -- that would be called the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 228 Working Group on FCC Openness and Transparency. 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Charles. 2 MR. BENTON: This is right in line with 3 our topic here of "Where Do We Go From Here?," on the 4 agenda, "Where Do We Go From Here?, Open Discussion 5 Regarding CAC's Future Role." 6 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Actually, no. We're 7 on recommendations now, action recommendations. If 8 you could hold, I would prefer that we go -- we'll 9 hold for a moment. 10 MR. BENTON: Okay. 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I prefer that we go 12 right now to the recommendations that we have from 13 our DTV Working Group and hold on this. 14 MR. BENTON: That's fine. 15 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: We'll continue. 16 We'll pass this around. 17 MR. BENTON: You're right. 18 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Let's see. Can I 19 call on our scribe extraordinaire, Kevin? Oh, Karen 20 has it. 21 MR. MARSHALL: If we can get the Court 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 229 Reporter please to expedite this portion of the 1 transcript on the recommendations, that would be very 2 helpful as well. 3 COURT REPORTER: Yes. 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Based on our working 5 group recommendations today, we have several 6 recommendations that came out of that. Karen's going 7 to read them. We'll take them one at a time. Karen, 8 how many do we have? 9 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: It looks like we have 10 six. 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Six, and they're all 12 connected. But we'll take them one at a time. 13 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I can read them one 14 at a time. 15 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, we'll take 16 them -- we have to take them; we're taking them one 17 at a time. 18 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: They're all 19 connected, but I'm going to read them. Bear with me 20 because I have them in like three different pieces of 21 paper here. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 230 "The CAC proposes the FCC develop a 1 specific plan for notifying consumers about stations 2 that decide to transition before the official analog 3 cutoff date of June 12, 2009" -- and we're assuming 4 that that's the date; we can leave off that date if 5 you want to and just say "analog cutoff date." So 6 why don't I do that, just say "analog cutoff date." 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes. 8 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "As part of this 9 plan, and in order to improve digital television 10 transition consumer education and adoption efforts, 11 the FCC shall" -- and now we're starting with number 12 one. So that was actually -- that's why I'm saying 13 it is all part of the plan. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I see. 15 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: And there are some 16 components of the plan. 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I hear you. 18 MR. ELLIS: The first part was the FCC 19 should consider this? 20 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "The FCC should 21 develop a plan," and this is the first part of the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 231 plan. So the FCC shall: 1 "One, publish and regularly update 2 information on television broadcast stations that 3 have commenced digital-only operations" -- and in 4 parentheses, "i.e., have turned off their analog 5 channel" -- period. "The CAC proposes that this 6 information be" -- and now there are subsections. 7 The first one is: "Published on the FCC's web site." 8 The second is: "Provided to the FCC's 9 call center." 10 The third is: "Provided to FCC and NTIA 11 contract recipients." 12 The fourth is: "Distributed to members 13 of the CAC." 14 And the fifth is: "Distributed to 15 members of the DTV Transition Coalition." 16 The second bullet -- again this is part 17 of the plan -- "is that the FCC should survey a 18 sampling of the stations that have converted to all-19 digital TV broadcasting and their viewers for the 20 purpose of collecting best practices and issues that 21 warrant greater attention." 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 232 The third one -- one second. Actually, I 1 think there's five. I think there's five. So the 2 third one is: "Work with broadcasters and other 3 stakeholders to coordinate education efforts on a 4 market by market basis." 5 The fourth one is: "Consider as one 6 means of notifying consumers about station 7 transitions direct mailings to consumers. Such 8 mailings should be identified as official government 9 correspondence in a manner that clearly distinguishes 10 such mailings from general correspondence." 11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: What number is that? 12 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: That's four. 13 Then five is -- again, this is part of 14 what the FCC should do. It should: "Continue and 15 expand efforts to prevent and remedy to the extent 16 possible potential loss of TV coverage." 17 Oh, wait. There were six. Sorry. I 18 said that this was going to be hard. Number six is: 19 "The FCC and other grant-issuing agencies" --20 actually, this may be -- okay. "The FCC and other 21 grant-issuing agencies should make an extra effort to 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 233 target DTV funds" -- I don't know whether we can 1 cover other grant-making agencies, so we may just 2 want to say the FCC -- "should make an extra effort 3 to target DTV funds to educate populations that have 4 been identified by the FCC and the Nielsen Company in 5 its Analog-Digital Readiness Transition Report 6 (January 2009) as least prepared for the DTV 7 transition. In addition to the geographic areas 8 identified by the Nielsen survey, these include 9 African-American and Hispanic populations, rural 10 communities, non-English-speaking individuals, low 11 income individuals, and people with disabilities." 12 So that's number six. I can add "Native 13 American." I can -- what is the correct terminology? 14 MR. STEPHENS: "Native American tribes." 15 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "Native American 16 tribes." 17 Now, apparently some of these have been 18 specifically identified, but all of them I think can 19 be -- we acknowledge that all of them are of concern. 20 MR. MARSHALL: That's the end of the 21 list? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 234 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: That's the end of the 1 list. 2 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: So I think we have 3 questions. 4 MS. BOBECK: Karen, can you just re-read 5 for us the provisions on the mailing? 6 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Yes. That was number 7 -- that was number 4: "Consider as one means of 8 notifying consumers about station transitions" -- I 9 don't know whether you want "transitions" or 10 "conversions" -- "direct mailings to consumers. Such 11 mailings should be identified as official government 12 correspondence in a manner that clearly distinguishes 13 such mailings from junk correspondence" -- junk mail. 14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: To say "government 15 mailings," is that good enough in terms of the cost, 16 covering the cost? 17 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: What? Oh, the cost. 18 We can say before "consider," "if funds are 19 available." 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Right, "if funds are 21 available." 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 235 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I switched the 1 sentence around and I left that out. 2 Number 5 is: "Continue" -- is it 3 "Continue and expand" or is it "Continue to expand"? 4 MS. TRISTANI: "Continue and expand." 5 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "Continue and expand 6 efforts to prevent and remedy" -- "to prevent, and 7 remedy to the extent possible, potential loss of TV 8 coverage." This has to do with those maps. 9 MS. BOBECK: Do you want to say "signal 10 coverage." 11 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "Of TV signal 12 coverage"? 13 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Can I ask a question 14 on number 2? It says -- can you read back? It was a 15 part of number 2 where it says "stations." 16 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "Survey a sampling of 17 stations." 18 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Do we need to be 19 more specific there? Are we talking about -- what 20 about public broadcasting? Are we just talking about 21 broadcast stations? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 236 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Wouldn't it cover 1 both? 2 MS. BOBECK: It covers both. 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: If you say 4 "stations" that's good enough? 5 MS. BOBECK: You could say "full power 6 stations." Could you re-read that? 7 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: "Survey a sampling of 8 the stations that have converted to all-digital TV 9 broadcasting and their viewers, for the purpose of 10 collecting" --11 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: That's good enough. 12 MS. BOBECK: That's fine. 13 MS. TRISTANI: There's a question. 14 MS. KINNEY: Linda Kinney from Dish 15 Network. I just have two suggestions. The first, 16 number one, where we say the FCC would update 17 regularly some sort of database, I would suggest 18 being more specific and perhaps saying weekly. One 19 of our concerns is we as a DTV provider have to make 20 adjustments to our back office equipment so that our 21 30 million subscribers will actually be able to see 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 237 once the conversion occurs. And we need very 1 accurate information, and if it's not updated weekly 2 that's a real problem, I think, for a lot of the rest 3 of us, too, and for consumers, if they did it less 4 frequently, monthly, or if they lagged behind. 5 MS. BOBECK: Should we say "at a minimum 6 weekly"? 7 MS. KINNEY: Yes, that's what I was 8 thinking, at a minimum weekly. 9 MS. BOBECK: I would hope it's daily. 10 MS. KINNEY: At a minimum. 11 MS. BOBECK: Good suggestion. 12 MS. KINNEY: My other suggestion would be 13 on number 4, which is the direct mailings. We as 14 well as the cable industry, covering about 100 15 million customers, are all mailing our customers and 16 have notification requirements. To have a competing 17 notification from the government I think, one, would 18 potentially cause more confusion to our customers, 19 would drive more calls to call centers that are 20 already overburdened. 21 So I would suggest adding language that 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 238 says something like "attempt to target over-the-air 1 households." I don't know how they would do this 2 specifically, but certainly it would be I would think 3 an incredible expenditure to send direct mail to 100 4 million people who don't need it, and cause more 5 confusion and drive more calls and perhaps actually 6 detract from the purpose. Try to focus on either 7 certain communities or over-the-air. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: What if you have 9 second and third and fourth TVs that are not 10 connected? 11 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I would think my goal 12 in suggesting this was really to target areas where 13 stations were going, converting early. So it 14 wouldn't be necessarily as broad as you're 15 anticipating, assuming that it's a finite number. I 16 don't know. If everybody's going to go early 17 incrementally, then it is everybody. 18 MS. KINNEY: I don't know how you'd 19 figure it out. We've already heard of two stations 20 that are trying to go back to analog after they've 21 converted, and how you would be able to do that with 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 239 a lead time that made sense in markets with any level 1 of accuracy -- I just mention this because during the 2 soft cutoffs what's happened is, even though the 3 broadcasters are saying in lots of cases their slate 4 says "If you're seeing this message you're not being 5 impacted," if we haven't exchanged all of our back6 office equipment the truth is those messages were not 7 accurate for our subscribers and drove all kinds of 8 calls and created a lot of consumer confusion. 9 We don't want to add to the consumer's 10 confusion, is what I'm saying, and having conflicting 11 messages, one from your provider and one from the 12 government and one from the broadcaster, does add to 13 a lot of confusion. 14 MS. TRISTANI: Can I --15 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Go ahead. 16 MS. TRISTANI: Unfortunately, there 17 already is a lot of consumer confusion because -- I 18 don't want to go back, but this wasn't done right, 19 and now we're just trying to do what we can to remedy 20 it. 21 I think Karen's suggestion was, since 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 240 there are going to be -- let's assume for the sake of 1 argument that Congress passes and the President signs 2 the delay bill. There are still going to be many 3 markets or stations that are going to transition 4 before that date, and I think this was an attempt to 5 make sure that where that's happening sooner rather 6 than later that there be more awareness of that. 7 Unfortunately, there's no perfect way to 8 do this. It may be that we recommend this and there 9 are actually no funds for this. Mailings are very, 10 very expensive. So this may be a pie in the sky in 11 any event. 12 Is there a way to identify the over-the-13 air households? That would be terrific, but I don't 14 know. 15 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: What if we add the 16 language "consider," "if funds are available, 17 consider as one means of notifying consumers who may 18 be using over-the-air televisions"? 19 MS. KINNEY: That's fine. I just think, 20 also speaking as a taxpayer, I don't want hundreds of 21 millions of dollars going out toward mailings where 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 241 people have pay TV services and don't need those 1 mailings. I just think I would prefer to have those 2 funds targeted in whatever way they can toward over-3 the-air households. 4 I understand people may have TVs in 5 basements and, believe me, our subscribers do. I 6 don't really feel sorry for those people. I mean, as 7 a member of this committee and a former FCC staffer 8 for a decade, I'm not really focused on the poor pay 9 TV subscriber who has a basement TV. They get 10 information during hurricanes or a floor or whatever 11 the emergency is. I just don't want my money going 12 toward those customers. 13 Again, we've had such confusion among our 14 own subscribers over this whole thing and they're not 15 impacted by this. So really it's driven a lot of 16 resources in a way that's not necessary. 17 So I hear you on the direct mail, but it 18 seems to me the money would be better spent and cause 19 less other ancillary problems if the focus continued 20 to be on over-the-air households rather than on pay 21 TV households. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 242 MS. TRISTANI: And I agree with some of 1 that. But I do want to go back to a point here. My 2 number one concern right now is over-the-air only 3 households, but I also am concerned about the 4 hundreds of thousands and millions of Americans who 5 are having to do different things because of the 6 transition. Let's face it, this is a government 7 mandate. Yes, there are consumers that have four or 8 five TVs and four of them may not work any more, and 9 that was not their choice. 10 So let's keep in mind that everyone, even 11 those that have pay services, are being impacted. A 12 lot of the pay services are also going up. They're 13 changing to digital tier. All sorts of things are 14 happening. So it's not a seamless all only over-the-15 air. The fact is in America some people have seven, 16 eight televisions and if seven of those are analog 17 they don't work any more. So everybody is being 18 impacted in one way or another. Some are more 19 vulnerable, but let's not forget that, that everybody 20 in some way is impacted. 21 MS. KINNEY: Yes, sorry. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 243 MS. TRISTANI: And without -- they have 1 no choice in the matter. 2 MS. KINNEY: Just to be clear, my first 3 starting point is we are contacting -- we are, under 4 FCC rules, to have notices mailed to each and every 5 one of our subscribers on a monthly basis informing 6 them if they have TVs that are not hooked up to our 7 system they must do something, and here's the 8 directions. 9 So all I'm saying is these people have 10 been bombarded with those messages and those mailings 11 are occurring, at great expense, millions of dollars 12 we're all spending to notify everybody monthly, and 13 have special notices. 14 MS. TRISTANI: And I know there have been 15 good efforts from industry, etcetera. But you ask my 16 89-year-old dad and my 83-year-old mother, and 17 they're both fairly intelligent -- my dad's mind is 18 not there any more -- and they're still very 19 confused, and they get the notices. So let's face 20 it, it's confusing. It's a transition. It's hard. 21 It's change. And we're just trying to do everything 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 244 we can. 1 But I'm taking up time here, and I think 2 we've made some amendments to the portion that 3 concerned you. So if there are other areas --4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I have to take a 5 poll on how we're doing here. Oh, Brenda, do you 6 have a comment on this? 7 MS. PENNINGTON: I just have one 8 amendment. In the introductory paragraph where you 9 talk about education, I'd like it to read "education 10 and outreach." 11 MS. TRISTANI: That's in the beginning? 12 MS. PENNINGTON: Yes, it's in the 13 beginning. 14 MS. TRISTANI: In the preamble? 15 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: The preamble. Well, 16 actually in number 6 where you say "to target DTV 17 funds to educate." You say that in number 6, Karen. 18 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Number 6 is "to 19 educate." 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Is that what we're 21 talking about, "to educate" funds? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 245 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: The first one, all 1 that the first one says is that "The FCC should 2 develop a plan for notifying consumers about stations 3 that decide to transition before the cutoff date. As 4 part of this plan, and in order to improve the 5 digital television transition consumer education and 6 adoption efforts" -- 7 MS. PENNINGTON: "Consumer education and 8 outreach efforts," that's what I want it to read. 9 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: So "adoption" was 10 somebody else's words. Whoever said that, is that 11 okay? "Outreach and adoption," okay. 12 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: That's number 6. 13 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: No, that's the 14 preamble. 15 MS. TRISTANI: That's the preamble? 16 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: That's the preamble. 17 So what is number 6? 18 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Number 6 is making an 19 extra effort to use funds for populations identified 20 as not ready, as least prepared for the transition. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Using DTV funds? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 246 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Yes, yes. 1 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: To -- oh, you don't 2 have the word "educate" in there? 3 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I do, but it's not --4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I'm asking a 5 separate question. 6 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Yes, the word 7 "educate" is in there, but "educate" is a verb, so 8 you can't say "educate and outreach" people. 9 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Because you want to 10 do more than just educate people, don't you? 11 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Okay. "The FCC 12 should make an extra effort to target DTV funds for 13 the purpose of providing to educate" --14 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: "To educate and 15 assist"? 16 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Yes, I like that. 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay. 18 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: That goes beyond 19 that. It goes to help them out. 20 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes, right. Okay, 21 good. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 247 MS. BOBECK: For those of us who don't 1 have the benefit of the draft in front of us, and 2 because we've gone back and forth among 4, 5, 6, 8, 3 2, and 3, can we do one more read-through if4 discussion is through, so we're all comfortable? 5 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: We certainly can. 6 We have a problem. We have not gotten to the last 7 part of our meeting, which is a discussion of the 8 working groups, and I do know that Charles needs to 9 go. This is what I think we need to do -- and bear 10 with me, CAC. I think what we need to do, because I 11 don't want to give any of these topics insufficient 12 time for discussion -- and I am so sorry, Scott. 13 Scott's not going to like this. 14 I think what we need to do is we need to 15 convene the CAC and we need to do it at the 16 convenience of all those involved by phone. We have 17 to have a full meeting of the CAC. We have to have 18 that final discussion. I want your idea, Charles, to 19 get full consideration and discussion because it 20 really needs that -- I don't want us to give only 21 five minutes to it -- and a discussion about other 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 248 working groups, which we really need to plan for, not 1 just on digital television, but on other issues that 2 the CAC is going to be considering over the life of 3 its term. 4 So that's what I would like to do. We 5 will plan that and we'll set up some sort of 6 communication where we can ask everyone what is a 7 convenient time, and we'll try and find a time that 8 meets everybody's schedules in the next two weeks, 9 because the immediacy of that does not depend on the 10 DTV transition date. 11 But I do want to give everybody fair time12 to consider that. 13 MR. BENTON: Great, no problem. Let me 14 just add here one P.S. to all of that. On the 15 agenda, which is a very good agenda, it's terrific, 16 it says actually "Where we go from here, CAC's future 17 role on DTV, broadband outreach." This is my P.S. 18 It's my P.S. to the meeting. In addition to all the 19 DTV -- the stimulus plan right now has somewhere 20 between $6 to $9 billion in it for broadband reaching 21 to rural areas and reaching the underserved. We have 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 249 got to have this on our agenda. So we've got to 1 revive the Broadband Committee on focus on this. 2 While I understand the urgency of the DTV 3 transition and I am all for it, I think that this 4 broadband outreach piece is another one we should 5 talk about. So we should add that to the agenda as 6 well for the next couple of weeks, just to move the 7 discussion along. 8 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Absolutely, Charles. 9 And I anticipate we would have a working group on 10 that at our next CAC meeting, with a lot of time. 11 So what we need to do right now is, let's 12 complete action on these recommendations. Do we need 13 to do one more read-through? 14 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I just added a word.15 I added in the first one -- we had said "publish and 16 update information on television broadcast stations," 17 but in the list it's "distribute" also. So I added 18 "publish, distribute, and update." 19 So I can read all of them now if you're 20 ready. 21 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Yes. Marti? 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 250 MS. DONEGHY: Are we expected to vote 1 today on the recommendations as well, or are we just 2 listening to the read-through? 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: I think we'd like to 4 vote at this point, because I think we should be 5 ready. We've had our discussion. If we can move 6 forward for a vote, I think we can do that, if we can 7 do that quickly. 8 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Yes, okay. Here we 9 go: 10 "The CAC proposes that the FCC develop a 11 specific plan for notifying consumers about stations 12 that decide to transition before the official analog 13 cutoff date. As part of this plan, and in order to 14 improve the digital television transition consumer 15 education, outreach, and adoption efforts, the FCC 16 shall: 17 "One, publish, distribute and update 18 information on television broadcast stations that 19 have commenced digital-only operations (i.e., have 20 turned off their analog channel). The CAC proposes 21 that this information be: one, published on the 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 251 FCC's web site; two, provided to the FCC's call 1 center; three, provided to the FCC and NTIA contract 2 recipients" -- or actually, "grant recipients" --3 Contract? Okay, "contract recipients." 4 "Four, distributed to the members of the 5 CAC; and five, distributed to members of the DTV 6 Transition Coalition. At a minimum, such information 7 shall be published on a weekly basis" -- or actually, 8 "shall be published, distributed, and updated on a 9 weekly basis." 10 "Two, survey a sampling of the stations" 11 -- again, this is "FCC shall" -- survey a sampling of 12 the stations that have converted to all-digital TV 13 broadcasting and their viewers for the purpose of 14 collecting best practices and issues that warrant 15 greater attention. 16 "Three, work with broadcasters and other 17 stakeholders to coordinate education efforts on a 18 market by market basis; 19 "Four, if funds are available, consider 20 as one means of notifying consumers who may be using 21 over-the-air televisions about station transitions" -22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 252 - "about station transitions, direct mailings to 1 consumers." "If funds are available, consider as one 2 means of notifying consumers who may be using over-3 the-air televisions" -- this doesn't make sense to 4 me; yes, I guess it's right. 5 -- "about station transitions, direct 6 mailings to consumers. Such mailings should be 7 identified as official government correspondence in a 8 manner that clearly distinguishes such mailings from 9 junk mail. 10 "Five, continue and expand efforts to 11 prevent and remedy to the extent possible potential 12 loss of television signal coverage. 13 "Six, make an extra effort to target DTV 14 funds to educate and assist populations that have 15 been identified by the FCC and the Nielsen Company in 16 its Analog-Digital Transition Readiness Report 17 (January 2009) as least prepared for the DTV 18 transition. In addition to the geographic areas 19 identified by the Nielsen survey, these include 20 African American and Hispanic populations" --21 "African American and Hispanic populations, Native 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 253 American tribes, rural communities, non-English-1 speaking individuals, low-income individuals, and 2 people with disabilities." 3 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, thank you very 4 much, Karen. So we have the motion on the floor. Do 5 we have a second? 6 MR. ROESCH: Second. 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Any further 8 discussion? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: All those in favor 11 of the recommendation signify by saying aye. 12 (Chorus of ayes.) 13 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: All those opposed? 14 (No response.) 15 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Any abstentions? 16 (Show of hands.) 17 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Two abstentions. 18 Okay, the recommendation is approved. Thank you. 19 Those are the recommendations for the CAC today, so 20 this is what we have at this point. 21 There are two things that you'll hear 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 254 from us about. One is setting up a task force. If 1 you could please -- I think what I will do is, in all 2 fairness to those who have had to leave early, I'll 3 send an email out to the full CAC and ask if you 4 would like to participate in the task force on 5 outreach. And you can just signify by communicating 6 back that you would like to participate, and we'll 7 set up a task force. 8 Then we'll try and set up a conference 9 call meeting. We may have a meeting in person here 10 and then have telephone access as well. We may do it 11 that way. We'll see, because there will probably be 12 a number of FCC staff involved in that. 13 The second thing is that we will have a 14 CAC meeting of the whole by conference call that 15 Scott and I will put together, and that will be to 16 finish the rest of the agenda from this meeting, 17 which is primarily to talk about the CAC going 18 forward and the establishment of working groups. 19 So we did get a document from Charles 20 because he did have a proposal and so you did get 21 that one. So you can take a look at that and be 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 255 prepared to discuss it on that conference call. 1 We'll set that up within the next two weeks, some 2 time before February 17th. Maybe we'll do it on 3 February 17th. That would be interesting. 4 So do we have any other business to 5 conduct? 6 (No response.) 7 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Do I have a -- oh, 8 yes. Gloria, go ahead. 9 MS. TRISTANI: May I thank you, Madam 10 Chair, for chairing this meeting and for permitting 11 us to vote and get our business done. Thank you for 12 your service. 13 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Well, thank you, and 14 thank everybody for all the work that you have put 15 into the CAC. This was the most productive first16 meeting ever, don't you think? Nothing like it. 17 Motion to adjourn? 18 MR. STEPHENS: I make a motion to that we 19 suspend this conversation until the telephone meeting 20 next week or whenever you can schedule it, Madam 21 Chairman. 22 Alderson Reporting Company 1-800-FOR-DEPO 256 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: Okay, thank you. I 1 have a sort of motion to adjourn. All those in 2 favor? 3 (Chorus of ayes.) 4 CHAIRPERSON BERLYN: All right, until the 5 next time. Thank you all. 6 (Whereupon, at 3:33 p.m., the meeting was 7 adjourned.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22