NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA + + + + + FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION + + + + + CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING + + + + + FRIDAY FEBRUARY 24, 2012 + + + + + The Advisory Committee met in the Commission Meeting Room, 445 12th Street, S.W., Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Debra Berlyn, CAC Chairperson, presiding. PRESENT: DEBRA BERLYN, Chairperson CHRIS BAKER, AARP ED BARTHOLME, Call for Action INDRA CHALK, T-Mobile USA, Inc. RICK CHESSEN, National Cable and Telecommunications Association MARY CRESPY, Verizon Communications, Inc. MARK DEFALCO, Appalachian Regional Commission AMALIA DELONEY, Center for Media Justice MATT FRIEDMAN, T-Mobile, USA, Inc. CECILIA GARCIA, Benton Foundation LISE HAMLIN, Hearing Loss Association of America MITSUKO HERRERA, Montgomery County, MD, Office of Cable and Broadband Services JULIE KEARNEY, Consumer Electronics Association RAJA KUSHALNAGAR, Rochester Institute of Technology NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 2 PRESENT(Cont'd): REBECCA LADEW, Speech Communication Assistance by Telephone, Inc. FERNANDO R. LAGUARDA, Time Warner Cable IRENE E. LEECH, Consumer Federation of America CLAYTON LEWIS, Coleman Institute for Cognitive Disabilities MIA MARTINEZ, National Asian American Coalition KEN McELDOWNEY, Consumer Action TRACI MORRIS, Native Public Media ART NEILL, Utility Consumers' Action Network JOEL OXLEY, National Association of Broadcasters STEPHEN POCIASK, American Consumer Institute STEPHANIE PODEY, National Cable and Telecommunication Association ANDREA QUIJADA, Media Literacy Project PAUL SCHROEDER, American Foundation for the Blind CLAUDE STOUT, Deaf and Hard of Hearing Consumer Advocacy Network BARRY UMANSKY, Digital Policy Institute DOROTHY WALT, Helen Keller National Center for Deaf-Blind Youth and Adults OLIVIA WEIN, National Consumer Law Center KRISTA WITANOWSKI, CTIA The Wireless Association ALSO PRESENT: SCOTT MARSHALL, Designated Federal Official KRIS MONTEITH, Acting Bureau Chief, FCC WILLIAM FREEDMAN, Deputy Bureau Chief, Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau JOSH GOTTHEIMER, Senior Counsel, Office of the Chairman KAREN PELTZ STRAUSS, Deputy Bureau Chief, Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau KIM SCARDINO, Deputy Chief, Telecommunications Access Policy Division MARK STONE, Deputy Bureau Chief, Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 3 C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S Page Welcome & Call to Order 4 Self-Introductions 4 Bureau Update 9 Update on National Broadband Plan 52 Implementation Update on Recent Report & Order and 90 Further Notice of Proposed Rulemaking on Lifeline Link-up Reform/Modernization Update from Disability Rights Office 120 Roundtable Discussion on Emerging 146 Consumer Issues Working Group Breakout Sessions Reaffirmation of Recommendation 192 from November 4, 2011, Meeting Report Back Media Working Group 196 Report Back & Recommendations of 202 USF Working Group Report Back Consumer Empowerment 211 Working Group Report Back & Recommendation of 222 Broadband Working Group Report Back Disability Working Group 228 Comments from the Public 238 Wrap-up and Next meeting 240 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 4 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S1 9:12 a.m.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome, everyone. 3 Good morning. I am Debra Berlyn, CAC 4 Chairperson, representing the National 5 Consumers League. I want to welcome everyone 6 this morning. So glad you could make it.7 We are going to go around the room 8 and introduce ourselves. If I could, I am 9 going to give a proper introduction to Chris 10 Monteith in a moment after we all go around, 11 but this is Chris Monteith, Acting Bureau 12 Chief of Consumer and Governmental Affairs 13 Bureau. Fernando?14 MR. LAGUARDA: Good morning. 15 Fernando Laguarda, representing Time Warner 16 Cable.17 MR. McELDOWNEY: Ken McEldowney, 18 Consumer Action.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, please remember 20 to raise your hand. Hopefully, they can catch 21 us as we are going around the room and keep 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 5 those mikes live. But remember, when you want 1 to speak, you have to raise your hand so that 2 they know to turn the mike on and get it live.3 MS. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Mia 4 Martinez with the National Asian American 5 Coalition.6 MR. BARTHOLME: Ed Bartholme with 7 Call for Action.8 MR. POCIASK: Steve Pociask, 9 American Consumer Institute.10 MS. WALT: Dorothy Walt from the 11 Helen Keller National Center.12 MR. DEFALCO: Mark Defalco, The 13 Appalachian Regional Commission.14 MR. OXLEY: Joel Oxley, on the 15 Board of the national Association of 16 Broadcasters and with WTOP and WFED in 17 Washington.18 MS. QUIJADA: Andrea Quijada, 19 Media Literacy Project in Albuquerque, New 20 Mexico.21 MS. GARCIA: Cecilia Garcia, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 6 Benton Foundation.1 MS. DELONEY: Amalia Deloney, 2 Center for Media Justice.3 DR. MORRIS: Traci Morris, Native 4 Public Media, Phoenix, Arizona.5 MS. WITANOWSKI: Krista 6 Witanowski, CTIA, The Wireless Association.7 MS. LEECH; Irene Leech, Consumer 8 Federation of America.9 MR. NEILL: Art Neill, Utility 10 Consumers Action Network and its independent 11 program New Media Rights.12 MR. STOUT: Hello. My name is 13 Claude Stout, and I am with the Deaf and Hard 14 of Hearing Consumer Advocacy Network.15 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin from 16 Hearing Loss Association of America.17 MS. PODEY: Stephanie Podey, 18 National Cable and Telecommunications 19 Association.20 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker with AARP.21 MS. CRESPY: Mary Crespy with 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 7 Verizon Communications.1 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder, 2 American Foundation for the Blind.3 MR. UMANSKY: I am Barry Umansky 4 with the Digital Policy Institute, and also in 5 attendance today is Dr. Robert Yadon from the 6 Digital Policy Institute.7 MR. STONE: I am Mark Stone. I am 8 a Deputy Chief in the Consumer and 9 Governmental Affairs Bureau.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome, everyone, 11 and a special welcome to Art Neill who has 12 taken Michael Scott's place from UCAN. So, 13 welcome.14 I am going to dispense with a lot 15 of our announcements until a little later this 16 morning, because we are on a very tight 17 schedule for the next two hours, but one 18 special announcement I want to make.19 I want to thank Fernando Laguarda 20 and Time Warner Cable for our meals this 21 morning, for our breakfast and lunch. So 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 8 thank you very much, Fernando. We very much 1 appreciate it.2 I want to make one other 3 announcement. This is really exciting. We 4 are getting to the 21st Century here. For the 5 first time, our meeting is being live Tweeted 6 and posted on Facebook. So we will be getting 7 some questions sent to us from the general 8 public, and we will be able to respond to them 9 at various points during the day. So this is 10 to increase the participation from consumers 11 around the country and others to be able to 12 join us in this meeting during the day. So I 13 wanted to mention that.14 Now it is my great pleasure to 15 introduce Chris. As most of you know, Joel 16 Gurin resigned last month, and his last day 17 was about a week or so ago. Is that right, 18 Chris? Yes, give or take a few days.19 This is Kris' first week with the 20 Bureau, but it is not her first week with the 21 Commission. Kris has had a long and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 9 distinguished history here at the FCC, 1 chairing the Enforcement Bureau and actually 2 serving on the Consumer Bureau at one time as 3 a Deputy Bureau Chief. Correct? 4 Actually, she has been everywhere 5 at the FCC and has done everything. I have 6 known Kris for many years. We are so lucky to 7 have her as the Acting Bureau Chief. Correct? 8 You know, we really are. We are very9 fortunate, and I am so pleased that she has 10 stepped into this role, and I am very pleased 11 that you are here today to give us an 12 introduction and to also introduce your staff, 13 and they will be giving us some updates as 14 well. So welcome, Kris.15 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you very 16 much. Thank you for the introduction, Debra, 17 and it is great to be reconnecting with Debbie 18 and with many of the folks around the table.19 I see many familiar faces, and for 20 those of you that I have not had the pleasure 21 of meeting, I look forward to working with you 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 10 in the days and months ahead.1 As Debbie said, it is Day Four on 2 the job for me. Thus far, I have moved 3 offices. I have met many new folks and 4 reconnected with others. I have had lots of 5 meetings. I have been briefed on new issues 6 and important priorities for the Bureau, but I 7 have lots to learn.8 Some things I have learned 9 already, and these things were readily 10 apparent to me. First, the almost 200 men and 11 women of the Bureau are committed to its 12 mission, and that mission is developing and 13 implementing informed consumer policies, 14 including disability rights and disability 15 accessibility policies; serving as the public 16 face of the Commission through outreach and 17 education; responding to consumer inquiries 18 and complaints; and maintaining collaborative 19 partnerships with state, local, and tribal 20 governments in areas of overlapping 21 jurisdiction and common interests.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 11 Second, that there is an equally 1 committed, very talented, and strong 2 leadership team in place in the Bureau. I 3 have brought four of the Bureau's senior 4 leaders with me today: Mark Stone, who 5 oversees the Bureau's consumer policy and 6 intergovernmental affairs functions; Bill 7 Freedman, who has responsibility for our 8 consumer inquiries and complaints functions, 9 and web and print publishing; Geoff Blackwell, 10 who I actually hope will be joining us -- he 11 has been out sick for a couple of days, and I 12 don't see him here at the moment, but 13 hopefully, he is well enough to attend today, 14 and Geoff oversees our Native Affairs and 15 policy work; and Karen Peltz Strauss, who many 16 of you know, w ho has responsibility for our 17 disability rights and accessibility work and 18 the consumer affairs and outreach functions.19 Mark, Bill and Geoff -- I hope, 20 Geoff -- will speak with you for a few minutes 21 following me, and Karen appears on your agenda 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 12 later in the day. They are a great team, and 1 I am delighted to be working with them.2 Together, the Bureau is also 3 committed to the Chairman's vision of a fact 4 based and data driven agency. We are also 5 committed to the overall vision of openness 6 and transparency in government. 7 With those goals in mind, Bill 8 Freedman has been working tirelessly on an 9 initiative to improve our consumer complaints 10 and inquiries function. We are striving for a11 consumer experience that is efficient, 12 effective, user friendly, and with all 13 protections for consumers' privacy, one that 14 allows us to better understand and utilize the 15 data we gather through the consumer complaint 16 and inquiries process, to better inform the 17 agency's policy making.18 We could use your help. We have 19 spoken with your Chairperson, Debbie, about 20 this initiative, and Bill will fill you in on 21 details in a few moments.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 13 I want to stress that the CAC is 1 important to the overall work of the Bureau 2 and to the agency. The collective depth and 3 breadth of your communications and consumer 4 expertise is awesome, truly awesome. We thank 5 you for your willingness to serve and for 6 giving of your time and your expertise.7 I look forward to working with 8 each of you and getting to know you better. I 9 hope that we will have many opportunities to 10 chat and get to know each other. You know 11 where to reach me. I am on the fifth floor. 12 Debbie has got my contact information and my 13 telephone number. So, certainly, when you are 14 at the agency, stop by and say hello. I would 15 love to, as I said, get to know you, and give 16 me a ring at anytime. 17 Now I will turn it over to Mark.18 MR. STONE: Hi. Thanks for giving 19 me a couple of minutes of your time to 20 describe some of the Bureau's recent policy 21 work. I think you will find these areas 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 14 relevant to what you all what to accomplish. 1 Gut first, thanks for the work that you have 2 done and the work you are yet to do.3 You are critical to our 4 understanding of what consumers expect and 5 need from their communication services. So 6 very briefly, I will tell you about the recent 7 robocalls order. In fact, that was last week 8 that the Commission adopted it. I also want 9 to tell you about another critical area that 10 we are looking at in the Bureau related to 11 cramming.12 So first, robocalls: The changes 13 the Commission adopted last week give 14 consumers additional protection from those 15 annoying, unwanted, autodialed or pre-recorded 16 telemarketing calls, also known as robocalls. 17 The changes maximize consistency between the 18 Commission's rules and the Federal Trade 19 Commission's analogous telemarketing 20 requirements, as directed by the Do Not Call 21 Implementation Act.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 15 First, the Commission required 1 telemarketers to get prior express, written, 2 not oral, consent before robocalling a 3 consumer. In addition to conventional written 4 consent, the Commission chose to do the eSign 5 Act, which permits electronic alternatives to 6 conventional writing, things like e-mail, text 7 message, telephone key press or recorded oral 8 consent. Those will each facilitate that 9 consent process.10 Significantly, the changes the 11 Commission adopted will not affect the purely 12 informational calls that consumers find 13 useful, such as those related to school 14 closings, usage alerts or bank fraud 15 notifications.16 Second, the Commission eliminated 17 the "established business relationship" 18 exception to the consent requirements for 19 telemarketing robocalls. Under that 20 exception, telemarketers can currently make 21 robocalls to consumers with whom they have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 16 previously done business, even when the 1 consumer has not consented to those calls.2 Third, the Commission required 3 telemarketers to provide consumers with an 4 automated, interactive opt-out mechanism 5 during each robocall.6 So these new requirements will 7 gradually go into effect over the next year, 8 but we think it is a big win for consumers.9 Second, I wanted to talk about 10 cramming, which folks around the table 11 probably are pretty familiar with. It is 12 something the Commission has had its eyes on 13 for years now. For those that may not know, 14 cramming is billing for unauthorized charges 15 on consumer telephone bills.16 In 1998, a coalition of wireline 17 carriers recognized the issue and developed a 18 set of industry guidelines or best practices 19 to address the practice. Then in 1999, the 20 Commission adopted some truth in billing rules 21 that were designed to enable consumers to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 17 better detect both slamming and cramming.1 More recently, in July of 2011, 2 the commission recognized that it was an 3 ongoing problem, and sought comment on a set 4 of proposed rules to further address cramming 5 with a couple of methods.6 The first proposal was a clear 7 separation of third party charges on phone 8 bills from other charges. I should note that 9 third party charges have been the major source 10 of cramming complaints that we have seen here 11 and that we have heard of from organizations 12 outside the FCC.13 The second proposal that the 14 Commission offered in July 2011 was clear 15 disclosure of options to block those charges. 16 So to the extent current wireline carriers 17 offer to consumers an option to block all 18 third party charges, that they will need to 19 make that clear to consumers up front. 20 I should note that the Commission 21 discussed the potential for cramming in the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 18 mobile context. It did not propose specific 1 rules for mobile. The proposed rules I just 2 mentioned were for the wireline telephone.3 On the same day as the NPRM or 4 about the same time, the commission also 5 issued an infographic that was designed to 6 show how frequently consumers are affected by 7 cramming and how often they may not realize 8 they are being crammed.9 Also in July of 2011, the Senate 10 Commerce Committee issued a staff report on 11 cramming, describing the effect to the 12 consumers. So we are taking a look at that as 13 well.14 So now the comment and reply 15 comment dates are coming on. We are reviewing 16 the comments from the public, all relevant 17 stakeholders. Very generally, the carriers 18 oppose new rules. They argue that third party 19 billing can help consumers and that voluntary 20 carrier efforts to curb cramming are 21 sufficient, and that many already block third 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 19 party charges at consumers' request.1 Also very generally, some of the 2 states and the FTC and others say that more 3 action is needed to address cramming. Some 4 ideas that they have suggested include greater 5 bill disclosure of third party billing, 6 requiring opt-in from consumers to allow third 7 party charges, and other possible actions.8 So these are just two of the 9 larger policy initiatives we have been working10 on in the Bureau. I am excited to have Kris 11 here to lead us through our agenda. So we 12 continue to work on, in addition to the two I 13 mentioned, other matters under the Telephone 14 Consumer Protection Act and the Communications 15 Act, and again we look forward to working with 16 all of you as we move forward with our 17 consumer empowerment agenda. 18 CHAIR BERLYN: Shall we take 19 questions now? Ken?20 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. Certainly, 21 after it seems like decades, welcome the land 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 20 line cramming regulations. What steps do you 1 think the Commission is going to be taking in 2 terms of wireless cramming, given that that is 3 -- replacing land lines throughout the 4 country, in order to try and get this stopped 5 before it really gets a foothold?6 MR. STONE: That is a good 7 question. I can't speak for the entire 8 Commission, obviously, but what I suspect it 9 will do, as we always do, is to continue to 10 take a look at the complaints we do receive 11 and analyze how it breaks out by each 12 category, and then consider what the next 13 appropriate steps are.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone have 15 any other questions for Mark? Thank you, 16 Mark. 17 MS. MONTEITH: Now Bill Freedman 18 will fill you in on what is going on in the 19 consumer inquiries and complaints area. Bill 20 also oversees our web and print publishing 21 functions, if you have any questions in that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 21 area. Bill?1 MR. FREEDMAN: Good morning. My 2 name is Bill Freedman. I am one of the three 3 Deputies in CGB and, as Kris mentioned, I am 4 responsible for two divisions, both of whose 5 work falls right within the wheelhouse of this 6 committee. So it is great to be here and see 7 you all here this morning.8 One is the Web and Print 9 Publishing Division, which is responsible for, 10 in part, overseeing 175 consumer guides and 11 related information sources that we have on 12 the Internet where people want to know about 13 our policies and our rules, what their rights 14 are, how they can best enjoy communication 15 services that are offered by providers here in 16 this country.17 What I am going to talk about more 18 today is our Consumer Inquiries and Complaints 19 Division, which is the other division that I 20 work with. It, obviously, handles complaints 21 and inquiries that we receive from members of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 22 the public. We get these inquiries and 1 complaints via a Commission website, email, 2 ordinary mail, Faxes and phone calls.3 It is by far the largest division 4 in CGB. It has a total of 85 employees, 5 including 30 consumer advocacy and mediation 6 specialists, which we call CAMS, in the 7 Gettysburg office, and also 30 here in 8 Washington.9 Just to give you an idea of the 10 volume of work that these CAMS take care of, 11 in the third and fourth quarter of 2011 they 12 responded to over 43,000 emails, nearly 13 102,000 phone calls, and over 135,000 14 complaints. 15 So they are very, very busy, and 16 one of the exciting things that I am doing, as 17 Kris mentioned, is taking a fresh look at the 18 process by which they handle this tremendous 19 volume of inquiries and complaints from the 20 public and see, number one, if there is a way 21 that we can do it more efficiently and22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 23 effectively but, number two, make the 1 interface with the public a little more 2 consumer friendly and understandable so people 3 are invited to avail themselves of these 4 processes and have us handle their complaints, 5 and do it in a reasonable manner.6 There are a number of functions of 7 the complaint process and the inquiry process 8 that I want to go over, and these functions 9 really guide how we are looking at the 10 process.11 One is, obviously, someone writes 12 us or calls us or emails us and asks for 13 information about a particular commission 14 policy and a consumer problem, like spoofing 15 or loud commercials on television or rural 16 phone calls that aren't completed as they 17 should be, and the CAMS have information as 18 well as written guides that can give people 19 the information that they want.20 The second function that the CAMS 21 carry out is handling complaints from 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 24 consumers. When consumers have problems, what 1 we often do is we listen to the complaint. We 2 get it in writing. We serve a copy of the 3 complaint on the carrier or the communications 4 provider, and ask them to respond to try to 5 work out with the consumer a resolution to the 6 problem that is acceptable to the consumer who 7 has complained to us.8 If that doesn't work, what our 9 CAMS often do is engage in mediation and try 10 to act as an advocate for the consumer to work 11 out a solution.12 Something that just happened this 13 week that is a good example of this process 14 is: We had a gentleman send a complaint, that 15 he wanted to get an iPhone, that he wanted to 16 get one of these new Smart Phones rather than 17 the dumb phone that he has. The 18 communications provider originally said, 19 sorry, you got to wait until the term is up; 20 you have two years; we will be thrilled to 21 sell you a phone at a discounted price where 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 25 we underwrite part of it, but we can't do it 1 in the middle of your term.2 So we talked to the consumer, and 3 the consumer said, that is crazy, I am willing 4 to extend the term for another two years, they 5 are going to get more money from me; there is 6 no reason why they shouldn't give me an 7 iPhone.8 So we went back to the carrier, 9 and after a little head banging, the carrier 10 came back and said, got great news for you, we 11 will sell the complainant a discounted Smart 12 Phone as long as it is not an iPhone. So he 13 was less than overjoyed with this, and our 14 relentless CAM went back to the carrier 15 another time and said, that just doesn't work; 16 he needs an iPhone. And Tuesday he got his 17 iPhone. 18 I am not saying that we can do 19 that kind of thing for everybody. Don't write 20 down my name or my phone number, but that is 21 what we try to do, and these CAMS really are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 26 incredible as to what they do, because they 1 have to know pretty much everything that we do 2 here at the Commission, which is kind of a 3 daunting task, and they work very, very hard 4 to resolve these problems, and I think it is 5 terrific that they do that. 6 Again, what we want to do is work 7 with you guys to try to make this process even 8 more effective than it already is.9 The other thing that the CAMS do 10 is they act as kind of an early warning system 11 for the Commission, and let us know what is 12 going out there in the marketplace where 13 people are encountering problems. What we are 14 able to do is alert folks here at the 15 Commission that problems are occurring, and we 16 can be a little more proactive in dealing with 17 them.18 A real good example of that is: 19 As you probably know, at the end of last year 20 one of the carriers announced that they were 21 going to charge consumers two dollars for the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 27 privilege of paying their phone bills on the1 Internet or over the phone. 2 One of our CAMS, the Friday before 3 -- actually, the Thursday before New Years, 4 took down this complaint, and I sent it up to 5 the eighth floor, and all I can tell you is 6 that later that day the Commission issued a 7 strongly worded statement that we were 8 concerned about this practice, and we were 9 looking into it. By the end of the day, the 10 carrier had rescinded the policy.11 Now I am not saying that it was 12 this lone CAM in Gettysburg on a frigid 13 December morning that took this complaint and 14 passed it on and that is why this happened, 15 but I would like to think that the fact that 16 these CAMS are diligently doing their jobs 17 helps the commission protect consumers and 18 make sure that there aren't irregularities in 19 the marketplace that might be violative of the 20 spirit, if not the letter, of our rules.21 The last substantial function that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 28 this complaint and inquiry process performs is 1 it informs the commission as to what problems 2 consumers are encountering on a trend basis, 3 so that we can maybe take another look at our 4 rules and maybe adjust them or come up with 5 new rules, or take enforcement action or do a 6 combination of both, again to effectively and 7 quickly deal with problems that happen in the 8 marketplace, which is a long, long way of9 saying that I am here to ask you for your 10 help.11 As Kris mentioned, one of the 12 things that we are doing is looking at this 13 entire process to see if it can be more 14 effective and efficient and, in part, more 15 consumer friendly. So we are looking at a 16 number of alternative interfaces that 17 consumers can use if they want to file 18 complaints with the commission on the Internet 19 or over the phone or by email or whatever. 20 We are getting our arms around the 21 problems. We are going to be calling on you, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 29 if you will, to take a look at what we are 1 coming up with, and make sure that it doesn't 2 smack too much of bureaucrat-speak, and 3 whether it is actually understandable English 4 that real people can understand and use to 5 their benefit.6 We are also taking a look at the 7 way our CAMS process these complaints, whether 8 it makes sense for CAMS to specialize in 9 particular substantive areas. We are also 10 looking at how they compile the data that they 11 receive from complaints and inquiries. We 12 will be talking to the various bureaus and 13 talking to the various offices of the 14 Commission and asking them, what kind of data 15 do you really need; what areas are you really 16 looking into; how can we best break down the 17 data that we get so that it serves your 18 purposes?19 So that is a long, long commercial 20 to say that we appreciate everything that you 21 all do, and we will be calling on you soon, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 30 and I look forward to working with all of you. 1 Thank you.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Bill. 3 We have -- Oh, Bill, do you want to stay for a 4 moment? Looks like there are questions.5 MR. FREEDMAN: I have a truck in 6 the front. Go ahead. Oh, I'm sorry.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Remember, the way 8 we do this is lift your tent card up. It is a 9 way to keep me organized here, if you have 10 questions. So Chris, Paul and Ken and, I 11 think -- and Lise. That is probably all the 12 time we are going to have for questions. We 13 might even get that far, but let's give it a 14 shot. Chris?15 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker.16 CHAIR BERLYN: And keep your cards 17 up.18 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker with AARP. 19 In the introductions, I neglected to 20 introduce my colleague Coralette Hannan, who 21 is sitting behind us. Sorry about that.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 31 CHAIR BERLYN: Coralette.1 MR. BAKER: In our discussions in 2 working groups, we have talked about the new 3 website. I am curious as to how the new 4 website and the link to the old website --5 what impact is that having on complaints or 6 are more people seeing it or not, or if you 7 see any trends.8 MR. FREEDMAN: Well, I should say 9 that one of Web and Print Publishing's primary 10 functions is to work with our IT people here 11 at the Commission to try to make the new 12 website as user friendly as possible. As with 13 anything else that is so radically changed, 14 there have been some glitches. 15 We rolled out last month something 16 known as My FCC that allows people to 17 customize what they get to fall within the 18 areas that they are concerned about. As far 19 as the complaint process, one of the synergies 20 of my working with both of these divisions is 21 I am working with Web and Print Publishing as 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 32 well to make sure, again, that our complaint 1 process is transparent and usable to consumers 2 as possible. So that will continue. Thank 3 you.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Let me just also 5 mention, the website is a tool that we are 6 very interested in. We did ask to have 7 someone come specifically and talk about the 8 website, the design and redesign and the 9 updating of it. We didn't get someone for 10 this meeting, but we expect to have someone 11 come and talk about it at our next meeting. 12 We talk about that later, but that is 13 something, Bill, that we are really interested 14 in, because we see that as an information 15 tool, as an outreach tool, and here also, as 16 Chris mentioned, it is probably something that 17 helps connect consumers to the complaint 18 process as well. So, good question. Paul?19 MR. SCHROEDER: Hi. Paul 20 Schroeder, AFB, Foundation for the Blind. 21 Just a couple of quick things.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 33 I want to make sure that -- and we 1 can talk about this separately -- that there 2 is opportunities to make sure that consumers, 3 particularly someone with vision loss, know 4 how to contact the complaint center, including 5 on issues not related to disability but on all 6 the host of other consumer issues that, of 7 course, they might be interested in. So we 8 will want to maybe work with you separately on 9 how to make sure that kind of information is 10 being made available to consumers, which kind 11 of gets to one of my points. 12 I have three quick questions: 13 Awareness: How do consumers know about the 14 complaint center, if you could briefly touch 15 on that.16 Issues that you are surprised are 17 not covered or that -- You mentioned ones that 18 emerge from the complaints, but I am wondering 19 if there are ones, as you look through the 20 numbers, that you are surprised aren't coming 21 through; and if so, are there steps to try to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 34 deal with that?1 Then I guess the third quick 2 question would be: The ones that are 3 disability issue related complaints, those 4 that come into the center. How are those 5 handled?6 MR. FREEDMAN: As far as new areas 7 of concern, one of the things that we are 8 doing as we are taking a fresh look at this 9 complaint process is how the process by which 10 we receive complaints can be more agile to 11 deal with either new issues that arise under 12 our existing rules, things like spoofing and 13 difficulties with people getting long distance 14 calls in rural areas, as well as new areas 15 that we are regulating as the laws change, 16 things like loud commercials, CableCards, open 17 Internet principles, things like that.18 The problem is that we have drop-19 down menus by which people file their 20 complaints, and sometimes it is hard to 21 shoehorn a new area into one of those existing 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 35 drop-down menus. 1 So we are working very closely 2 with our IT people to come up with ways where 3 we can sort of shift on a dime, if all of a 4 sudden problems with rural calls break out in 5 Nebraska or something like that, so we can 6 deal with those problems.7 As far as complaints from the 8 disabled community, we do have folks in 9 Gettysburg and in Washington who can handle 10 those types of complaints. One of the things 11 we are looking at, again, is how to handle 12 those more efficiently and effectively, and I 13 look forward to working with you, Paul, to 14 come up with some solutions.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken.16 MR. McELDOWNEY: I am Ken 17 McEldowney. Talking about consumer action, I 18 think one of the things that I have been 19 hemming at over the years and, hopefully, 20 there will be a difference now, has been the 21 inabilities of the Commission to basically 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 36 serve folks for whom English is not the 1 primary language.2 I remember out of earlier CAT, I 3 was told that there was a blind woman who 4 spoke Spanish, but unfortunately she was on 5 maternity leave. I guess what I wanted to 6 know is a couple of things.7 What is the breakdown in terms of 8 your complaint handling staff in terms of 9 being bilingual, and what languages are 10 served? How are you talking to consumers for 11 whom English is not the primary language in 12 terms of how to file complaints, and sort of 13 what education materials do you have that sort 14 of alert folks who do not speak English about 15 their rights and how to complain?16 Consumer Action has had a 17 bilingual complaint line with which we serve 18 consumers in English, Spanish, Cantonese and 19 Mandarin for probably two decades, and the 20 information in terms of how to get those 21 complaints and how to reach us in those 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 37 languages is on all the materials that we 1 distribute, about a million a year.2 As an indication of the problem, 3 we recently, on our Chinese hotline, learned 4 about a massive scam in San Francisco 5 Chinatown in which people were purporting to 6 represent AT&T, having people come in, order 7 multiple cellphones, SmartPhones, telling them 8 not to open the boxes and to bring them back 9 to them. The company then would resell it to 10 get some media in language press. We received 11 some 80 complaints.12 None of those people knew how to 13 reach the FCC, none of them; only could come 14 to us for assistance, and we worked with AT&T 15 in terms of resolving that complaint. I mean 16 those complaints and rolling those back.17 Again, I would really like to work 18 with you in terms of trying to see exactly 19 what you are doing in terms of tracking 20 complaints by language and seeing whether or 21 not that represents -- that that breakdown is 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 38 very similar to the breakdown within the 1 country itself.2 MR. FREEDMAN: I can tell you that 3 this Commission in particular is very 4 sensitive to making our complaint and inquiry 5 process as all inclusive as possible. to that 6 end, within the last six months our Web and 7 Print Publishing Division translated virtually 8 all of our consumer guides into Spanish.9 I know that there are some other 10 languages that might need translating, too, 11 and we are looking into that and, when I am 12 done, I would like to trade contact 13 information to work with you on this. 14 I know that we do have folks in 15 our Consumer Centers who are definitely 16 Spanish speaking, and I believe we have folks 17 who are accessible to translate complaints 18 into other areas. We want to do more in this, 19 and again I would like to work with you on 20 that.21 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. We have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 39 been translating all our materials into the 1 five languages for probably 15 years. I think 2 the breakdown is probably sort of informative. 3 Probably in the course of a year, probably 30 4 percent -- We distribute our material to a 5 national network of some 7,000 groups, and 6 they order materials from us free and in bulk.7 About 30 percent of the 8 publications that we ship out are in Spanish, 9 and probably, again, five to 10 percent in 10 Chinese, in both Chinese, Korea and also in 11 Vietnamese.12 CHAIR BERLYN: I am going to move 13 to Lise next but, you know, the number of 14 cards that have popped up, Bill, has made me 15 realize that at our next meeting we are going 16 to plan a one-on-one with Bill, because I 17 think that you, obviously, have a set of 18 issues that the CAC is really interested in. 19 So I think we want to dedicate some more time 20 at our next meeting to a dialogue with you and 21 talk about some of these issues in greater 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 40 depth. Lise, you are next.1 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin from 2 Hearing Loss Association of America, and I am 3 really glad to hear Debra say that, because 4 there is a lot, and I don't want to take up 5 too much time now, but just quickly.6 I think Ken hit on something that 7 is not just true with people who speak other 8 languages, but also people with disabilities. 9 They don't know who to complain to. They 10 don't know to come to the FCC for an issue.11 I even had somebody who had an 12 iPhone, can't hear on it or use it. I said, 13 did you file a complaint, and he said, no. So 14 I look at your list of complaints. I saw the 15 recent report, and people with disabilities is 16 this little tiny portion of it, which makes 17 you think, oh, everything is okay, right?18 Everything is not okay. So I 19 think one of the things that we need -- How I 20 would like to work with you is trying to find 21 of how do we get that information out to the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 41 consumers? You don't want complaints about 1 things out in left field, but you do want to 2 hear about the things that the FCC can 3 actually do something about. 4 So that was one thing, and whether 5 we can work with you on surveying or whatever 6 we can do to reach out to the community, we 7 would like to work with you on that.8 So if you have plans already in 9 your mind about what we can do to help you, I 10 would like to find a way to be involved in 11 that.12 Then I think these consumer -- I 13 love, actually, the fact sheets. I love 14 getting those and being able to send them out, 15 but we need more ways that the consumers know 16 that these sheets are out there, that they can 17 get this information. Just more public 18 awareness, I think, would help us help you.19 MR. FREEDMAN: Well, one of the 20 things that we are doing with Web and Print 21 Publishing is, again, trying to tweak the new 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 42 FCC website to make it as user friendly as 1 possible. So if somebody wants to know about 2 cramming, they can put the word cramming in, 3 and everything will appear before them, 4 because we have a substantial number of 5 information sheets out there, and it is a 6 question of hooking up the people with the 7 sheets that they need, and we are trying to 8 this in as reasonable and logical and user 9 friendly a way as possible.10 MS. HAMLIN: If I could just add 11 one more thing real quickly, it is that the 12 other thing that we find is a lot of our 13 people have complaints about television, 14 access to television and captioning, that kind 15 of thing. But when you go -- It is really not 16 an easy process. It is a barrier, the forms 17 that are used now. 18 I find them easy, because I have 19 used them a lot, but I have heard from my 20 people that they find it hard to use. The 21 other piece is that you are sitting and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 43 watching television, and your kicked back. 1 You don't want to have to spend the time 2 complaining.3 So there may be an easier way to 4 do it like shooting out an email and saying I 5 am having a problem now, here is my problem, 6 instead of having to go through the whole, 7 okay, now I got to go to the Internet and fill 8 out this whole form, and find it.9 There may be -- That is another 10 area, I think, that we need to look at, how 11 those forms work and the interface with actual 12 people.13 MR. FREEDMAN: Well, one of the 14 things we are doing, as I mentioned -- I don't 15 want to take up this whole meeting, but one of 16 the things that we are doing in looking at 17 this whole process is not only complaints but 18 also consumer inquiries where people do just 19 that. They call up and they say, I am having 20 a problem with this, what are my rights.21 One of the things that we are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 44 trying to do is true up the scripts and the 1 information that are available to our CAMS to 2 handle those types of questions with the 3 information sheets that are prepared, to make 4 sure that what the CAMS are telling people and 5 what the information sheets say are in synch 6 and also are as up to date as possible.7 As you can imagine, there is a lot 8 of information that we have to cover, and one 9 of the things that we are looking at is a way 10 to involve each of the licensing bureaus and 11 operational bureaus that have particular 12 expertise in particular areas to get them 13 involved in this process to proactively update 14 our information base, again with the objective 15 of getting it to people as efficiently as 16 possible.17 Here is Karen. I was just going 18 to give her a plug.19 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I just wanted 20 to mention that, if anybody does have a 21 captioning complaint, they can always send an 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 45 email to our DRO mailbox. I believe it is 1 dro@fcc.gov, and I will confirm later when I 2 come down. 3 If we have concerns about filling 4 out the form, we have people that can help 5 with it, and no one should not file a 6 complaint, because they are having trouble 7 with the form. They can let us know, and we 8 have people that can help them.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, Karen. 10 MR. FREEDMAN: I will close and 11 just say thank you again for all of your 12 interest and all of your enthusiasm, and I 13 look forward to working with everyone of you. 14 Thank you.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Bill. 16 Thank you very much. Kris, anything?17 MS. MONTEITH: I apologize. Geoff 18 Blackwell, who heads up our Native Affairs and 19 Policy Office, is out sick today, but 20 generally, Geoff's shop has been instrumental 21 in working with other bureaus and offices to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 46 make sure that, as we make policy decisions, 1 that the interests of native nations are also 2 front and center in that policy making.3 He has also worked very hard to go 4 out to visit native nations and to bring, 5 again, information where it is needed, and to 6 work with native nations to address their 7 concerns. It is a community that has been 8 historically underserved, and we want to 9 change that.10 So he will be available later in 11 the day, if there is any time on your agenda. 12 I think he is coming into the office later, 13 but just wasn't -- He has been out sick a 14 couple of days. So wasn't feeling up to it 15 this morning. We can also put him on your 16 agenda, assuming that is fine with Debbie, for 17 another meeting.18 Again just in closing, I really 19 appreciate -- We, the Bureau, the agency, 20 really appreciates all your time and your 21 energies. It sounds like we have hit upon 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 47 some issues that are ripe for discussion and 1 really digging in, and we would love to use 2 you as -- Obviously, you are an asset. You 3 are a resource. We would love to get the 4 benefit of all your expertise and your 5 knowledge. Thank you so much.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Kris.7 While we are waiting for our next 8 speaker, let me go back to some introductory 9 announcements. One of the things I didn't do 10 before was recognize. I believe we have some 11 people on the bridge, on the phone:12 Indra Chalk, who is the alternate 13 representative from T-Mobile; Clayton Lewis, 14 Coleman Institute for Cognitive Disabilities; 15 and Rebecca Ladew, Speech Communications and 16 Assistance by Telephone. So welcome to those 17 who are on the phone.18 Before we adjourn for lunch, Scott 19 will announce our breakout session. So we 20 will do that, and we will talk about that 21 later.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 48 In your packet, new 1 recommendations that we are going to address 2 at the meeting this afternoon are on pink 3 paper -- thank you, Scott -- to make it easy 4 to recognize. That was Betty? Well, thank 5 you. 6 Later on this afternoon, we will 7 also be readopting three recommendations that 8 we passed at our November meeting, just a 9 process issue that we need to take care of.10 I believe that is it. So we will 11 take care of any other business later. I 12 don't want to give us a break right now, 13 because we are expecting Josh Gottheimer 14 momentarily. He must have gotten hung up in 15 the Chairman's office, which I know often 16 happens. So I don't want to let everybody out 17 of the room, because I know his time is 18 limited today. So if we leave the room and 19 then he shows up, we will have to lock the 20 door, and we have another speaker right after 21 Josh. So we don't want to --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 49 Let me just ask if -- We have 1 tried really hard to work out the room here so 2 that everybody can see, but if there is anyone 3 at the end of the room who is having any 4 trouble seeing the speakers here, we do have 5 one empty seat right next to Rick Chessen over 6 here. If you do want to relocate, you are 7 welcome to that.8 Also, I noticed that the seat next 9 to Irene is also empty. That member is not 10 going to be here, at least not for the 11 morning. So if you want to take that seat, 12 that one is also right on the corner there. 13 That one is also available. So please feel 14 free to shuffle around, if you need to. 15 Julie?16 MS. KEARNEY: I'm happy to switch.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We do have 18 some flexibility. So, please, that is all I 19 wanted to mention. If you need to, please 20 feel flexible to do that. Yes, Ken?21 MR. McELDOWNEY: I would really --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 50 It would be great if the Commission could 1 afford some power strips. I realize that is a 2 radical idea, but -- Okay, good3 CHAIR BERLYN: Paul?4 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder, 5 American Foundation for the Blind. I actually 6 just want to take a second. Although I don't 7 have any pink paper, I do want to compliment 8 Scott and the team, whoever was responsible, 9 for excellent Braille. I know that has been 10 an ongoing challenge for the Commission. So 11 thank you for producing material in Braille, 12 particularly for today's meeting, even though 13 I don't think there is any pink Braille in my 14 packet.15 CHAIR BERLYN: That is most 16 certainly Scott and his team.17 So again, while we are waiting, 18 just a couple of things to note on our agenda 19 today. One of the things that we have done is 20 we are heavy on issue substance this morning, 21 and then we are on process this afternoon. So 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 51 that is sort of the way we have designed the 1 schedule.2 One of the things that we have 3 added today, and you will see, right before 4 our lunch break is a roundtable discussion. 5 What I want to try and do during that 6 roundtable discussion is to have an 7 opportunity to talk about the issues that have 8 been presented in the morning, but also to 9 discuss any other issues that you think the 10 CAC should be addressing that we haven't 11 perhaps talked about today or that we haven't 12 brought up previously.13 So something that you said, you 14 know, this is something that the CAC should be 15 working on -- so that is an opportunity for us 16 to do that. So think about that, but that is 17 something we have added, and hopefully, we can 18 continue to do that at each of our CAC 19 meetings.20 Anyone have any new business? Oh, 21 I just got an email. There we are. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 52 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Morning.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Good morning.2 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Thanks for coming 3 on a Friday.4 CHAIR BERLYN: I am very pleased 5 to introduce Josh Gottheimer, who got here 6 just in time before I had to start singing and 7 dancing. Welcome, Josh.8 MR. GOTTHEIMER: I would like to 9 have seen that, actually. I am going to leave 10 now.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome. Thank you 12 so much for being here. We have had the 13 pleasure of welcoming the Chairman from time 14 to time and welcoming you here as Senior 15 Counsel for the Chairman, and we are really 16 excited to hear about some of the highlights 17 from the Chairman's office. So thank you for 18 being here.19 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Sure. Do you 20 want to ask me some of the questions and have 21 me answer them or just sort of speak?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 53 CHAIR BERLYN: We could do that, 1 and I know your time is limited.2 MR. GOTTHEIMER: I can do it. I 3 want to do what would be best for everybody. 4 CHAIR BERLYN: I think -- Does 5 anyone have any questions for Josh, and we 6 could just see if cards go up. That is one 7 way we could do it. I think it is obvious 8 that there is a National Broadband Plan that 9 is being implemented, that there have been 10 acts of Congress recently, that there are all 11 sorts of things that have been happening.12 So I could probably ask about five 13 questions, but -- oops, there is a card.14 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Okay.15 CHAIR BERLYN: So why don't we 16 just see. Does anyone have any questions for 17 Josh?18 MR. GOTTHEIMER: If you have 19 questions, I will open for a minute, and then 20 we can answer some questions. This way, we 21 use the time well, and I really want to make 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 54 sure that I address what is on your minds. 1 First, I want to begin, and on 2 behalf of the Chairman who I spoke to a few 3 minutes ago, I want to thank you all very, 4 very much for your service and your work on 5 this, and for being here. I know you are very 6 busy. This is quite important that this FACA 7 exists and is giving constant feedback and, 8 Debbie, thanks for your good work.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.10 MR. GOTTHEIMER: The Chairman, as 11 many of you know by now, is focused on -- has 12 been focused on two big areas, and this goes 13 back to his broadband plan, really the access 14 to broadband and the adoption of broadband in 15 this country for the purpose of, beyond 16 anything, making sure that we are leading the 17 world, that Americans have access to the best 18 information and the best jobs and are able to 19 keep our economy and our leadership in all 20 areas, whether it is education or health care 21 or technology, strong.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 55 We think broadband is critical to 1 that. At the agency, there are lots of things 2 we wake up thinking about every single day. 3 Number one on that list, and that has many 4 pieces, is broadband. The Chairman, when I 5 first arrived, gave me a big box of Broadband 6 cereal and said, you have to eat this every 7 morning, and I think it is pretty accurate, 8 because that is what we worry about.9 The issues that are tied to that, 10 of course, foremost one of them being consumer 11 issues and making sure that consumers are 12 comfortable and armed with the best 13 information to get broadband, but beyond that 14 to make sure that we take every step possible 15 to prevent them being discouraged from 16 adopting, and that has lots of pieces to it as 17 well that you know about, because if it goes a 18 long way, you discourage people from making --19 to adopting and getting all the benefits out 20 of broadband.21 So I will get to that in a second, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 56 but if you think about broadband every single 1 day, you have got to focus on two pieces. 2 One is the access to it and making sure that 3 our country, everyone in the country, has an 4 option, at least one, preferably more, to get 5 high speed broadband at home, and to get 6 mobile broadband, access to mobile broadband, 7 wherever they are.8 The reason we think it is so 9 important that they have access at home, as I 10 said, is because there is -- if you don't have 11 access and you are left out of that, to me, 12 you are living in a very -- the digital 13 divide, and the other side of the divide 14 nowadays is so severe and so -- You are really 15 being left out of the economy. You are being 16 left out of connecting with friends and 17 family. You are being left out of education. 18 It is the other side of the 19 opportunity divide. It is no longer an 20 optional thing to be connected. It is a 21 requirement to be a full part in society, and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 57 we really believe that. So the access side 1 and making sure you have a choice is quite 2 important.3 If you have noticed U.S. effort, 4 steps we have taken on reforming USF, which 5 was a significant achievement here, and 6 working on the transition to broadband in the 7 USF fund, obviously on the access side, on the 8 mobile side. Just in the last week -- and I 9 know many of you had a hand in this --10 Congress passed and the President signed 11 incentive option legislation for voluntary 12 incentive options to try to get more to meet 13 the ever growing demand of broadband.14 We called it the spectrum crunch, 15 because there is such a demand on spectrum, 16 given the explosion of tablets and SmartPhones 17 and all the other uses of wireless and mobile 18 technology from both the licensed and 19 unlicensed side. 20 We thought it was essential that 21 we free up more spectrum, and we are beginning 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 58 that process now, studying the legislation, 1 and we will take steps and have more to say 2 soon on that, but that was a very big 3 accomplishment for the country and an 4 important step for connectivity.5 That is the -- and then his whole 6 spectrum agenda. There are many pieces that 7 we have focused on to free up more spectrum. 8 So that will continue to be a significant 9 priority, because we can't afford to give up 10 our mobile leadership. We are leading the 11 world in 4G deployment. 12 We think it is essential from a 13 business perspective, from technology 14 leadership where we continue to be the envy of 15 the world because of all of our start-ups and 16 our existing companies that lead in this 17 space.18 Tom Friedman said it well 19 recently where he said, you know, we may not 20 be building everything in America anymore, but 21 everything, I believe, is invented in --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 59 innovated in the USA, and that is sort of what 1 things should be stamped, "Innovated in the 2 USA." I think that is right.3 We really -- The intellectual 4 capital behind so many of the new businesses 5 and new products, whether it is the apps 6 economy and all that is happening in the apps 7 space or the content on the social media side 8 -- just look at what is going on, and you 9 understand why other people around the world 10 are asking us how do they do it, too.11 That is one piece, the access ID. 12 Then you have another huge problem which I 13 know many of you grapple with, and one that we 14 have spent a lot of time on lately that I have 15 personally led a lot. It is the adoption of 16 broadband side.17 It is wonderful if people have 18 access in their homes and on the go. But if 19 they can't afford it or if they just can't get 20 their hands on it or they don't know how to 21 use it or don't understand why it matters to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 60 them and why they should get it, you have got 1 another significant problem; because those 2 people also are being left on the other side 3 of the digital divide, and they are into 4 significant disadvantage.5 So our adoption efforts -- and we 6 just took steps in our lifeline reform with 7 broadband pilots. Also, we proposed using 8 more funding for digital literacy, and the 9 Chairman helped launch a very important 10 initiative called Connect to Compete which 11 will -- the cable industry stepped up and 12 offered to provide $9.95 broadband for two 13 years to any -- $9.95 a month broadband for 14 two years to any free school lunch eligible 15 families.16 There were a series of companies 17 that came together around that, that are 18 helping address some of the reasons people 19 aren't adopting broadband. The three big ones 20 are cost of the device and the connectivity --21 that is where the 9.95 comes in. We also have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 61 the largest refurbisher in the country offer 1 $150 devices, refurbished devices, to school 2 lunch eligible families.3 On the digital literacy side, 4 which is another big barrier, 40-plus million 5 Americans -- I'm sorry, 60 million Americans 6 are digitally illiterate and don't know how to 7 use a device, whether it is get on email or 8 use a mouse. 9 The fact that we have got so many 10 people who don't have the basics, it is like 11 reading, writing and arithmetic and, to me, it 12 is also using computer. If you don't know how 13 to use a device and that is the reason holding 14 you back, we have to take steps to fix that.15 Now America's public libraries are 16 an incredible leader in the digital literacy 17 space. There are 6,000 American public 18 libraries that are offering basic digital 19 literacy, about 38 percent of them in the 20 country. We want to get that up to about 65 21 percent of the America's public libraries 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 62 offering basic digital literacy classes.1 Best Buy has offered -- They are 2 putting their Geek Squad forward, and they are 3 going to be training people starting in 20 4 states how to do basic digital literacy and do 5 classes for them.6 Then the third barrier, which is 7 the relevance piece of why do I need this in 8 my life: A series of content providers on the 9 jobs front for Clear Builder and monster.com 10 and others and on the education front, people 11 like Discovery, have offered up free content.12 So whether it is job training, 13 certification online, or homework helper for 14 kids, if you can't afford a tutor, but there 15 is all this wonderful rich content online, to 16 low income Americans. So they have offered 17 this up for free to low income Americans.18 Our goal there is Connect and 19 Compete, which is now actually being run 20 outside of government in a nonprofit, a new 21 nonprofit called Connect and Compete. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 63 Our goal there is to ensure that 1 more people, especially those who really can't 2 afford it, to have a shot at getting 3 connected, because we know that a third of the 4 country is not adopting broadband, which is 5 just at home, which is a very, very 6 significant number when you compare it to 7 places like Singapore where it is 90-plus 8 percent, but in low income areas and with 9 minorities, the number is more like 50-60 10 percent don't have broadband at home. 11 So think about that from your 12 perspective. If we are worried that people 13 are falling further and further behind if they 14 are not connected, and then we know there is a 15 huge swath of the country, maybe 50-60 16 percent, have certain populations which aren't 17 getting online, that is a real problem.18 We also know that it is a big 19 seniors issue, a massive senior issue, and 20 digital literacy, actually more than costs 21 there, is a big problem, but cost is also a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 64 significant issue.1 If we walk away, and the Chairman 2 walks away thinking that he hasn't dealt with 3 the access side or hasn't dealt with the 4 adoption side, if we hadn't taken steps, I 5 think we would have been remiss, and I think 6 that is why we are working feverishly to deal 7 with that.8 Just one last piece, and then I 9 will open to questions: The other big 10 initiative lately that I think you might be 11 interested in that we are doing is on digital 12 learning, another reason why you have 13 broadband, because broadband, as I said, is 14 not -- you don't just get broadband for the 15 sake of having a pipe in your house for 16 broadband. It is the reason you use it.17 For some people, it is connecting 18 to friends and family, and for others it is 19 looking for a job or getting a job. But then 20 the education piece -- it is so important to 21 that, and we, from a meaningful use 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 65 perspective, think it is critical.1 Now not all of Julie's clients are 2 going to think that that -- Not everyone wakes 3 up every day thinking I am going to build 4 something for this purpose. They might do it 5 for social reasons or for showing video. We 6 think that is wonderful, too, but we think the 7 meaningful use piece on education, for 8 instance, is so important.9 The Chairman, two weeks ago, 10 announced with Secretary Duncan -- challenged 11 the ecosystem of those who do learning and 12 textbooks in this country. It is a $7 billion 13 industry, by the way -- a year, just in case 14 you are wondering if there is any money being 15 made in textbooks, and it is a great business, 16 by the way, like every seven years you get to 17 change a few words and put on a new cover. 18 You slap a new cover on and just charge 19 schools again for it. So it is a great 20 business model, if you can get it.21 There has been no innovation or 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 66 very little. I don't want to offend them, 1 but very little innovation in that space. 2 There has been some, but compared to where 3 other industries are, it has been small. It 4 is our children and we are paying the taxpayer 5 dollars for all this stuff. You would think 6 there would be a little bit more, but if you 7 got a good thing, why change it.8 You should see what is going on in 9 the digital industry. The explosion of 10 innovation in the last two years or three 11 years is remarkable. If you have a tablet, 12 basically, imagine this, just to give you a 13 perspective of what is available right now, 14 increasingly affordable available right now.15 You have a tablet, and at night 16 your child goes home, and they open it up and 17 on it is not your static text, which is one 18 size fits all, but it is actually this 19 incredibly engaging personalized learning 20 experience where you open up algebra or 21 geometry, and the shapes pop out and move 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 67 around and turn around, and there are videos 1 about the solar system, and they can do 2 assignments through social media, connect with 3 other people in their class, and the textbook 4 learns as your child goes through the 5 textbook.6 So there is a company called 7 Newton, very interesting right now, that is 8 taking thousands of data points as your child 9 is reading their textbook or their digital 10 textbook. So you turn the page, and it notes 11 how long you spend on each section. You learn 12 better visually, because you spend less time, 13 and you answer questions more accurately when 14 you see it visually or, when it is written, 15 you do better. If it is written in bullets, 16 you do better, and the textbook actually just 17 changes to you, to conform to how you learn, 18 because think about it. We don't really do 19 anything one size fits all. Yet we do 20 textbooks one size fits all for all kids, and 21 we know that kids learn differently.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 68 Then at the end of the section on 1 triangles, you realize -- remember, we used to 2 take those 10 questions at the end. You rip 3 out the page. You hand it to the teacher or 4 you just hand in your homework assignment and 5 you take it out to see if you understood the 6 chapter on triangles or on isosceles 7 triangles.8 Well, imagine that at the end of 9 the chapter, you child answers the questions. 10 It shoots -- A shoots the answers -- It 11 grades it, shoots it to your teacher. Fine, 12 that is one piece. That seems pretty simple. 13 Teacher doesn't have to grade 1,000 papers. 14 But beyond that, it says, ah, Johnny is having 15 problems with isosceles triangles, and it 16 automatically right there pops in another 17 chapter or another workbook section on 18 isosceles triangles and says, oh, you are 19 having problems; let's do a few more, and I 20 can see you are not learning well this way, 21 but why don't you try it this way and see if 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 69 that will help you.1 We know that, if a kid goes -- By 2 the fourth grade, if kids are behind, they 3 never catch up. So imagine we make sure that 4 at night they do whatever they can to catch 5 up. So the textbook learns. Then it sends a 6 note to the teacher, not just on how you did, 7 but it sends a note and says these five kids 8 are having problems or not understanding this 9 piece of the triangle section; why don't you 10 spend another 20 minutes in class tomorrow 11 teaching about that, because we are going to 12 lose a third of your class.13 Then when they are in the class 14 sitting there teaching -- and you all remember 15 this from being in school -- and you are 16 teaching, and half the kids sort of doze off 17 or they are not really understanding what the 18 teacher is saying. 19 As you are sitting there with your 20 tablet, it sends every 20 minutes -- the 21 teacher can send a pop question to the tablet, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 70 and you answer yes or no on your little 1 survey, and on the teacher's tablet it shows 2 like, actually, a third of the class has no 3 idea what you are talking about. You better 4 circle back and spend time on that. 5 That is after, when you walked in 6 in the morning, the textbook checked you in, 7 because you know you are there and sends a 8 little -- this is happening in several states 9 right now. It sends a text to your parents 10 and says Johnny arrived, because it knows you 11 arrived. Of course, the kids are really good 12 at cutting school will give it to a friend to 13 carry their tablet into school that day.14 This is wonderful, but here is the 15 problem. If a kid is not connected -- If 16 there is no connectivity outside the 17 schoolhouse door, because eRay, obviously, 18 deals with a piece of the connectivity in 19 school -- if there is no connectivity outside 20 the schoolhouse door, it doesn't work. The 21 whole system shuts down. That is why the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 71 wonderful part of it or the rich part of it is 1 being connected at home.2 So we are working very closely 3 with the Ecosystem right now. We ran a whole 4 process with Co-Chair for the Department of 5 Education with the tablet manufacturers, with 6 the connectivity, the inter-surf providers and 7 connectivity folks, with the content players, 8 and said how do we actually produce a really 9 affordable product here? How can you do it? 10 There are people to come together to produce a 11 whole product, and how do we deal with the 12 connectivity issues, and how do we make this 13 so that it works, it is affordable?14 The price points work, but how do 15 we get it out to the country? So that is what 16 the Chairman and the Secretary challenged this 17 industry to get done, so that in five years 18 every kid, K-12, has one of these. 19 We are there. there is no reason 20 this shouldn't be happening technologically. 21 Now we just have to get there. So that is an 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 72 example of the sort of thing that we are 1 working on that brings to life the reason this 2 agency exists every day. And I will end 3 there.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Josh. I 5 do notice that cards have gone up while you 6 have been talking, and continue to go up. 7 MR. GOTTHEIMER: They tacking what 8 I am saying.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Mitsy, I think your 10 card went up before Josh even got in the room. 11 So go for it, and then Claude and Irene, 12 Paul, Chris. We have got a lot. I will write 13 names down, but we will start with Mitsy here.14 MS. HERRERA: Good morning.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Remember to raise 16 your hands, so the booth knows, and do make 17 your questions short, because I know that 18 Josh's time is limited.19 MS. HERRERA: Good morning, Josh. 20 First, I was struck by thinking that the 21 broadband breakfast cereal should be replaced 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 73 with Broadband Crunch with little crunch 1 berries, you know, like the little shiny2 things.3 MR. GOTTHEIMER: That is a good 4 idea.5 MS. HERRERA: So I am really glad 6 -- and this is a big issue for local 7 governments, particularly as we move, we roll 8 out. We try to get more information that is 9 online and access, and those are big issues10 for us. So I want to press you.11 First is on accountability. The 12 Connect to Compete program is based on the 13 terms and conditions that the Commission 14 negotiated with Comcast as part of the 15 Universal Service -- at least part of the 16 rollout for the school age children of the 17 broadband services and the 9.95.18 Do you have any statistics back 19 from Comcast as to how many chidden were 20 eligible in their areas, and how many children 21 have actually signed up, because we have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 74 significant feedback from people that the 1 process itself makes it very difficult for 2 people to actually get the service?3 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Good question. 4 Two responses. One, through Comcast/NBC 5 merger, the company offered to do an adoption 6 program, of course, one that we worked with 7 them on. That was called Internet Essentials. 8 So that is a separate -- It is a very similar 9 program to Connect to Compete. 10 Connect to Compete is a voluntary 11 program from the rest of the industry, the 12 cable industry, that offered to provide $9.95 13 broadband similar to Comcast, only the terms 14 were slightly different.15 Comcast, just about two weeks ago 16 -- I think it was about two weeks ago -- put 17 out a report on accountability, which we can 18 get to you, on their statistics -- I don't 19 want to cite them from memory -- on what they 20 are seeing so far.21 I thought, actually, it was a very 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 75 good step forward. They are being hard on 1 themselves. The gentleman who is really 2 overseeing the program, David Cohen, one of 3 their leaders, is spending quite a bit of time 4 and actually taking it very seriously and 5 going above and beyond. 6 In fact, they announced they were 7 making -- The initial claim that they made was 8 for free school lunch eligible, which was what 9 Connect to Compete is. They offered, starting 10 next year they are going to do free and 11 reduced. So they are expanding their 12 population voluntarily, just because they see 13 it going well.14 They admit that this is not easy, 15 and part of the challenge here -- and Connect 16 to Compete, I know, is struggling with this, 17 too, although making a lot of progress on how 18 to do this -- is to verify that someone is 19 school lunch eligible. There is no national 20 database. Even the states don't have the 21 databases. It is all -- In most cases, you 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 76 say you are school lunch eligible. 1 So what Comcast is requiring, and 2 the other cable companies, is some sort of 3 proof of that, and that is why it has been 4 complicated, because they have to send in this 5 -- You say you are interested. You just send 6 in the document.7 The companies and Comcast commit 8 this, too, and we are working with the other 9 companies on this, are finding a way to, if 10 you give certain data points in, where you 11 live -- so Census information, stock 12 information -- plus what school you go to 13 which shows what percentage are school lunch 14 eligible. If you hit a certain threshold, you 15 don't have to go through that process. You 16 automatically qualify.17 I think that is going to make a 18 huge difference in dealing with the roadblock 19 that is up there. It is a shame that there is 20 no national -- that we have no database to 21 check. It is a problem we have with Lifeline, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 77 too, and it is part of what the reforms of 1 Lifeline is finding, a database; because you 2 might imagine these companies don't want to --3 that are doing this, don't want to lose a lot 4 of money and have all these people who really 5 don't qualify, quality, and I don't blame 6 them, but also I have been really pressing 7 them to say we've got to find a better way, 8 because we can't lose a huge swath of people, 9 because it is too hard.10 So this has been one of my biggest 11 issues, the eligibility screen, and we are 12 working very, very hard on it. 13 If you want to talk about other 14 issues they are having, I am going to give you 15 my card, and I would love to connect with you, 16 and we can talk about specifics.17 MS. HERRERA: I would just say 18 that at the school level they have that 19 information.20 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Yes.21 MS. HERRERA: And if you just 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 78 created a very simple database that they could 1 upload that information at the local school 2 level, you could at least start to --3 MR. GOTTHEIMER: They tried this. 4 We just had a five-hour meeting with them 5 yesterday. They have tried this. Schools are 6 really -- The school leaders are really busy, 7 and the feedback they are getting from schools 8 is, if you make t his really easy for me, I 9 will hand out a flyer and stuff it into the 10 school lunch packets, but if you require us to 11 do anything, we have so many demands on our 12 time. 13 A lot of the schools are -- They 14 have to still get permission from each kid to 15 release -- each parent has to sign a waiver to 16 actually let the school give that information 17 out. So unless the school has a database 18 themselves, each school that Comcast or enter 19 Connect to Compete, it won't work, because 20 they still need -- You can't just give this 21 information out. It is all confidential.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 79 So this is like the big problem. 1 Otherwise, they would just be handing over the 2 list. They actually have to get permission 3 from each individual parent. It is really --4 The process is just aggravating, but we are 5 trying to work around it.6 MS. HERRERA: I will just say, 7 though, that on all of these national 8 programs, the accountability -- and, frankly, 9 there are programs at the local level, they 10 are not national, that actually engage in 11 broadband adoption addressing the relevance 12 issue, and finding ways for the FCC to drive 13 these national programs, not just seek out 14 people who have a presence in 50 states, but 15 to actually engage with people who are 16 regional based, who have very effective 17 measures. I might just put that in your ear.18 MR. GOTTHEIMER: I completely 19 agree. That is one of the reasons why Connect 20 to Compete has about 25 people like United Way 21 and 4-H and all these national organizations 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 80 which are going to their local organizations 1 and bringing them in, the ones that at least 2 have national footprints, because you need 3 somebody to coordinate with.4 I would say you are right. The 5 more -- but it is hard to know every single 6 organization. What will continue to happen is 7 they are finding out state by state who they 8 should be connecting with at the local level, 9 but it is really hard to get all that 10 information.11 I know they are using -- Connect 12 to Compete is using every single organization, 13 whether it is the Untied Way or the mayors or 14 local officials or all the national 15 organizations that represent all the local 16 people, to try to get to them, and the public 17 libraries are talking to every local public 18 library through the American Library 19 Association.20 So it is hard. They don't have 21 the resources to go themselves one by one, but 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 81 they can use all these organizations to get 1 there. It is hard stuff, and I think it will 2 keep getting better and better as more people 3 know about it. There is no point in having 4 these programs if people don't know about 5 them.6 On the accountability front, I 7 know that Connect to Compete has hired Nicol 8 Turner-Lee at the Joint Center from the 9 accountability to study this incessantly to 10 make sure that it is actually moving a dial. 11 That has to be done. The accountability is 12 critical. If we have no accountability, why 13 have these programs? So I am with you 180 14 percent, and we should talk more about this.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We are going 16 to have to move on, and Josh needs to leave. 17 Josh, can you take, what, one, two more 18 questions?19 MR. GOTTHEIMER: I'm checking.20 CHAIR BERLYN: And Kim, who is 21 next, has to start. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 82 MR. GOTTHEIMER: So we could do a 1 couple more questions.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Two more questions, 3 and Claude, quick. Two quick questions. No 4 statements. That is a no statement rule.5 MR. STOUT: Can you hear me okay? 6 Josh, I wanted you to know that the National 7 Broadband Plan is one of the best things that 8 has happened to us in the disability community 9 in my 15 years of working with the FCC.10 I wanted to bring to your 11 attention that I'm sure that you have a 12 Verizon phone. I have an AT&T phone. If I 13 were hearing and I could call you anytime, no 14 matter which company I was using, if you were 15 -- and no matter which company you were using. 16 We would be able to talk on the phone. But 17 it is not that easy, and it is not so with us 18 in the deaf community.19 Deaf people are using video 20 phones. If you have an iPhone and I have an 21 iPhone, then we could talk through video, but 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 83 if you have an iPhone and I have a Blackberry, 1 then we can't chat on the phone through video 2 chat.3 So even though the experience 4 happens through voice communication, it is not 5 happening through video, and we would like 6 that same kind of experience, and it is 7 something that we look forward to working with 8 you on, because it would require a lot of 9 companies working together, like Google and 10 Apple and Microsoft coming together to 11 collaborate, along with mobile companies to do 12 that sort of collaboration.13 So I just wanted to call that 14 simple thing to your attention.15 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Thank you, and I 16 am glad you did. As you know, when that 17 started with the Broadband Plan, this FCC has 18 been, I think, historically committed to 19 working this issue and figuring it out. Our 20 office here that addresses these issues, I 21 think, is one of the best that the FCC has 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 84 ever had.1 In fact, I was just in a meeting 2 yesterday talking about these issues. So 3 please know that we are incredibly committed 4 to them. We have to figure them out. You 5 heard me, that I think we can't afford for 6 anyone to be on the side of the unconnected, 7 and if everyone doesn't get to experience the 8 benefits, then it is going to have a 9 tremendous cost to not just our social side of 10 life, but our economy. Know that we are 11 working these issues hard.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Paul, you get the 13 last quick question. Oh, Chris, you stepped 14 in there. Thank you, Paul.15 MR. BAKER: Thank you, Paul. My 16 question is about the Connect to Compete. 17 First of all, I appreciate your mention of 18 desire to get more older adults online. I 19 just wanted to make sure that you understood 20 that not many older adults qualify for the 21 school lunch program, one point.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 85 Then also, in that National 1 Broadband Plan, the one recommendation that 2 addresses the Consumer Advisory Committee by 3 name is the Connect to Compete program. I 4 just wanted to get your thoughts as to how you 5 -- and this is probably a question for when we 6 have more time, but how you envision the CAC 7 responding to that.8 MR. GOTTHEIMER: To the question 9 of?10 MR. BAKER: To the Connect to 11 Compete initiative and sort of monitoring 12 their progress and reporting back on 13 suggestions and so forth. It was actually 14 mentioned in the National Broadband Plan.15 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Yes. Well, 16 Connect to Compete wasn't, but you are right, 17 the adoption idea was.18 CHAIR BERLYN: The concept.19 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Yes. So one of 20 the things on the older Americans front -- and 21 Debbie knows this, because we have been 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 86 working on this -- we are very eager to do 1 more on that front. I will tell you candidly 2 that the response from the community has been 3 slow. We are very eager from the FCC's 4 perspective to do more.5 We believe, and I believe, you 6 have got -- I could look at the stats -- a big 7 challenge with not enough seniors being 8 connected, and I know from someone who -- 9 daughter Skypes with her grandmother at least 10 four days a week, and my mother keeps a good 11 healthy distance.12 MR. BAKER: We are happy to give 13 you a list of programs that might qualify for 14 it, if you want to add it to the school lunch 15 program.16 MR. GOTTHEIMER: I know that the 17 cable -- I am just kidding, Mom, in case you 18 are reading the record here. I will tell you 19 that the cable industry offered something, and 20 we believe it is a massive commitment on their 21 end, like a $3 billion commitment, and the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 87 whole program is a $4 billion and time 1 commitment.2 We believe that it is very 3 important. I can't speak for the industry who 4 offered this on a voluntary basis about what 5 they are going to do to expand, and I know 6 that. So I will leave that to them, but I 7 will tell you from the FCC's perspective, 8 beyond that program we have to do more to find 9 ways to connect people and to knock down the 10 barriers, and there are lots of things we can 11 do to get there.12 We have had several meetings to 13 try to figure out what it will take. Is it 14 more on digital literacy, and should we be 15 working with more of the seniors organizations 16 to provide more digital literacy and training? 17 Are there more programs we could do through 18 American Public Libraries to deal with the 19 training?20 On the relevance side, are there 21 things we should be doing, and put aside the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 88 cost side for now. There are lots of other --1 There are also a lot of other obstacles in 2 the way. At least, that is what the research 3 shows, besides costs.4 Let's all work together and figure 5 out if we can get there on costs. I am all 6 for everyone talking to everybody else and 7 seeing if there is something we can do, but 8 what I would hope is this has to be a more 9 urgent priority for the older American 10 community, and we are ready to do more and 11 work through this together, because I think we 12 have to, and there is no reason not to.13 So I am committed, if you are.14 CHAIR BERLYN: And we do need to 15 move forward. I would suggest that, for the 16 second part of your question or the first part 17 -- I don't remember which part it was, but our 18 role -- we talk about that later today. 19 We have talked very informally, 20 but I think that that is something that we 21 actually need to address and talk about. So 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 89 we will do that, Josh, and take your 1 advisement at some point, but we need to 2 continue that conversation.3 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Excellent. 4 Thanks, Debbie.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you very 6 much.7 MR. GOTTHEIMER: Thank you all 8 very, very much again for what you are doing. 9 It is invaluable for us. Please let me know 10 if you have questions. I am going to leave 11 cards here with Debbie. So if you want to 12 call me or talk to me or send notes, harass 13 me, harangue me, I'm all for it. Everyone in 14 Washington does. So you might as well. But 15 thank you, really, very much. Thanks.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Josh.17 Don't anybody leave. We are very 18 pleased to have Kim Scardino join us at the 19 table. Kim has been with us before, because 20 she has been dealing with a really important 21 issue for consumers and for, I know, a lot of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 90 CAC members, Lifeline, and the recent order 1 that came out on Lifeline and Link-up Reform 2 and Modernization.3 Kim is Deputy Chief, 4 Telecommunications Access Policy Division fop 5 the Wireline Competition Bureau. So we are 6 very pleased to have you again, Kim. Thank 7 you, and thank you for your patience. I know 8 we are running a little late. So sorry about 9 that. 10 MS. SCARDINO: You should never 11 have Josh going before. I am just kidding. I 12 am not as funny as him. So this will be more 13 serious, I think.14 Thanks for having me back, and I 15 am thrilled that the Lifeline reform order has 16 been released, and now we can -- I know 17 everybody here has read it and understands the 18 whole thing. No. It is a long order and a 19 lot of new rules. The entire program has 20 really been revamped in a lot of ways.21 What I thought I would do is give 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 91 you the highlights, and then save time for 1 questions. I have certainly gotten a lot of 2 questions from folks. I spoke at NARUC and 3 for the Joint Board as well as some other 4 states. So I have been talking a lot with the 5 states about some of their questions. So I 6 will try as I go along to address some of the 7 things that have been raised since the order 8 was released.9 One of the best things that I 10 think that the order does is it puts all 11 eligible telecommunications carriers under the 12 same rules largely. There are some 13 differences, but before we had a situation 14 where you had some of the forbearance carriers 15 operating under certain rules that were 16 different from what everyone else was 17 operating under, and the purpose of the order 18 was really to put everybody under the same 19 rules, so that there was clear guidance to the 20 states and, of course, you see about what 21 everyone should be doing when they sign people 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 92 up for Lifeline and continue to serve them.1 The order, for the first time, 2 adopts three goals for the Lifeline program, 3 as well as some measures, and also simplifies 4 the definition for the supported service to 5 make it consistent with the supported service 6 that was adopted in the Connect America Fund 7 order, replacing the nine list of services 8 with what we call voice telepathy service. 9 Along those lines, it also talks a 10 lot about what constitutes facilities for 11 purposes of providing that supported service, 12 and it grants conditional forbearance to those 13 carriers that had previously relied on the 14 operator services directory assistance type of 15 service to become facilities based providers 16 when they got designated. 17 The order basically doesn't 18 disrupt any service that is being provided 19 right now, and sets forth a process whereby 20 those carriers that had previously relied on 21 facilities that are no longer supported 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 93 services, that they could come to the FCC and 1 get a compliance plan approved and continue 2 operating services, and those that haven't 3 been yet designated would first get a 4 compliance plan from us.5 The compliance plan process will 6 just be that they file a document explaining 7 how they will comply with the rules in the 8 order, how they will sign people up for 9 Lifeline. We are going to be issuing a public 10 notice next week to carriers explaining what 11 they need to put in those compliance plans.12 The order also adopts, starting 13 April 1st, a flat rate reimbursement, which we 14 think administratively will be a lot easier 15 for everyone. Before, we had a three-tiered 16 process for non-travel support. 17 The order doesn't do anything to 18 disrupt the current tier 4 travel support, but 19 it replaces the old process, which was a bit 20 antiquated, because it relied on subscriber 21 line charge of the ILEC that really had 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 94 nothing to do at all with the service being 1 provided.2 So it replaced it with a flat rate 3 of $9.25, and we look at that as an interim 4 rate, subject to -- we have a further notice 5 asking questions about what the permanent rate 6 should be and whether that is enough support. 7 so we are anxious to get feedback on that 8 from carriers.9 I would say the heart of the order 10 relates to the eligibility and certification 11 and recertification for Lifeline. Prior to 12 this, you had largely a self-certification 13 model where consumers signed up for Lifeline 14 saying that they were eligible, without really 15 proving that they were enrolled in any kind of 16 program.17 We always had a rule that, for 18 income, that the consumer needed to show that 19 they were eligible, but on the program based 20 side it was self-certification. The 21 certification forms that the carriers had were 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 95 largely very small font, really not explaining 1 that it was a Federal benefit that the 2 customer was signing up for, what Lifeline 3 was.4 The intent of the order is really 5 focused on consumers, so the consumers really 6 understand that they are signing up for a 7 benefit. 8 When we did a 12-state duplicate 9 process that we went through to contact 10 consumers that had more than one Lifeline, we 11 found that a lot of consumers called in and 12 said they didn't even realize that they were 13 signed up for more than one Lifeline. I think 14 that the revised certification process will go 15 a long way at consumers understanding that 16 they are actually signing up for a Federal 17 benefit and what the requirements are for that 18 benefit.19 So along those lines, the order 20 establishes uniform eligibility criteria that 21 are a floor that the states can go beyond. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 96 That basically means that in any state a 1 consumer can sign up for Lifeline through 2 income, which is 135 percent of the Federal 3 poverty guideline, or through participation in 4 a qualifying program.5 At a minimum, the state needs to 6 accept the Federal programs, and a state could7 add additional programs if it has a program in 8 its state that is income based and meets the 9 criteria established in the order.10 So anywhere that somebody can --11 anybody that is eligible for Lifeline can sign 12 up, either through proving that they meet the 13 income threshold or that they participate in 14 one of the qualifying programs.15 I have gotten some questions from 16 states about what that means, and basically 17 what it means is anywhere, any consumer should 18 be able to sign up for Lifeline either through 19 income or program, and that the states are 20 certainly free to add programs to the list, 21 the Federal list.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 97 Along those lines -- and Olivia 1 was very helpful on this next point, which is 2 the one per household rule, which is really a 3 one per economic unit rule, and you could 4 interpret it as one per family. It is one per 5 economic unit.6 We had in the Notice of Proposed 7 Rulemaking that the Commission released in 8 March had proposed a one per residential 9 address, and we heard from people that came in 10 and said, you know, there's multiple 11 households that often live at any address, and 12 you shouldn't go with that definition. So we 13 didn't. We went with a definition that allows 14 multiple economic units that might share an 15 address to get Lifeline.16 At the same time, it also allows 17 people living in group living facilities to 18 get Lifeline as well, which before prior to 19 this order was a bit unclear with the way the 20 rules were before. You didn't see a lot of 21 Lifeline participation from people living in 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 98 group living facilities, and we certainly know 1 that we got a lot of questions about that on 2 the way, about why people that did live in 3 group living facilities couldn't get Lifeline.4 The definition is based on the 5 LIHEAP, the Low Income Home Energy Assistance 6 Program, definition, with a few tweaks. The 7 order directs USAC to come up with materials 8 that will guide states and ETCs and consumers 9 alike to kind of plain English "what does this 10 mean" and gives scenarios like two families 11 living together at the same address, two 12 multi-generational families living together, 13 two roommates, all those different scenarios, 14 and USAC will be developing materials that 15 will be available in print format as well as 16 on the website to give a little context about 17 what this definition means for consumers.18 The way we envision when somebody 19 signs up for Lifeline, we are ultimate going 20 to have a duplicate database that would check. 21 For everybody that is in the program, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 99 everyone that is currently enrolled in the 1 program would be in the database. 2 So if somebody came along at that 3 same address and wanted to get Lifeline, they 4 would be given then a worksheet, which USAC is 5 developing, that would allow the person to 6 figure out whether they are part of the same 7 economic unit as that person that is at that 8 address.9 We think that will be a simple 10 process for consumers to, if an ETC is signing 11 somebody up or a state and sees that somebody 12 at that address already has Lifeline, they 13 will give them the worksheet to figure out if 14 they are part of that same economic unit or 15 not and, if they are not, then they would be 16 signing up for Lifeline and be put into the 17 database.18 The certification: We didn't come 19 up with a uniform certification form that 20 everybody has to use, because we knew that 21 states and ETCs have their own forms now, and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 100 instead we chose to -- in an appendix, which 1 is Appendix C -- list all the things that need 2 to be updated on that certification form.3 So everyone can take their 4 existing forms and just update it with all the 5 things that need to be part of that form, and 6 that all has to just be done by June 1st. So 7 June 1st is the date that the one per 8 household and the certification will take 9 effect. Hopefully, by then USAC will have all 10 those materials.11 Right now the Federal process for 12 when somebody signs up, as I mentioned, it is 13 self-certification. But now under this rule, 14 a consumer would need to demonstrate that they 15 are indeed eligible. That could be done one 16 of two ways.17 The first, which is the preferred 18 method, is if there is a database that exists 19 in a state, the carrier or the state needs to 20 use it to check for eligibility. We recognize 21 that some states do have databases, and we 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 101 will be looking to them as a model for how we 1 can get the other states to put their data 2 online as well. But if a state does not have 3 a database available to check for eligibility, 4 the subscriber would need to show that they 5 are indeed eligible by showing their Food 6 Stamp card, their Medicaid card.7 This is another thing that the 8 order directs USAC to develop materials about 9 what those look like. What does a Food Stamp 10 card, and what does a Medicaid card look like. 11 Those would all be online for ETCs to use in 12 their training and have available to people, 13 so that the reps that are signing people up 14 would know that looks like.15 After somebody is enrolled in 16 Lifeline, then you have the challenge about 17 whether they continue to remain eligible. Oh, 18 I should note that the order only requires new 19 subscribers to demonstrate that they are 20 eligible. It doesn't require that the 21 carriers or the states go back and get proof 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 102 of eligibility from their entire subscriber 1 base, because right now there are 13.5 million 2 subscribers. So it is a going forward basis, 3 again starting June 1st.4 There is always a challenge about 5 how you know if somebody continues to be 6 eligible for the program and whether they even 7 continue to want the service. So the order 8 sets forth a process that replaces the current 9 verification sample process, which required 10 that ETCs take a sample of their subscribers, 11 and subscribers would need to prove that they 12 are eligible. 13 It replaces that with an annual 14 recertification process where the ETCs need to 15 contact all of their subscribers on a rolling 16 basis throughout the year to have the 17 subscriber certify that they remain eligible, 18 no one at their household -- no one that was 19 in their household is getting Lifeline, and a 20 couple of other things that they would attest 21 to. They would provide that form back to the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 103 carrier.1 Now that process can be done on2 paper, online, via phone through an IVR, 3 Interactive Voice Response, unit system, or 4 through text in the case of wireless. So the 5 order sets forth all of those rules for how 6 that could be done.7 We think it is really important 8 that the first year, in 2012, that the 9 carriers or the states if they do this 10 function for the carriers contact their 11 subscribers to see if they remain eligible. 12 This is something that hasn't been done except 13 only TracFone and Virgin Mobile do this today.14 A lot of people have been on 15 Lifeline for a long time, and no one has 16 contacted them to see if they want to remain 17 in the program. So there would be like this 18 initial outreach in 2012, starting in June, 19 from June until the end of the year, that 20 everyone needs to contact their subscribers 21 and recertify them and report the results to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 104 USAC at the end of January 2013.1 Then starting in 2013, this would 2 be done on a rolling basis, again first by 3 checking the database, if a database is 4 available, but if not, then going to the 5 subscriber to see if they remain eligible. 6 That could be done on a rolling basis.7 The order also gives -- If 8 carriers feel like they can't do this, for 9 whatever reason, they think it is too 10 burdensome or they are not able to do it, they 11 could have USAC perform that function for 12 them.13 So just moving on, I won't touch 14 on everything in the order, but one of the 15 things that I mentioned, the database, the 16 duplicate database, that is something that we 17 are moving forward with and hope to be done 18 within a year, to have a system where carriers 19 would be able to tell if somebody is already 20 receiving the benefit.21 We have done the duplicate process 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 105 in 12 states, which I talked about last time I 1 was here, and we are going to continue that 2 process in about another 16 to 17 states this 3 year, while the database is being constructed, 4 and there will be the same process we did 5 before.6 Before, we had a system where the 7 carriers were paying for the customer care 8 functionality, and that is being brought in. 9 USAC is performing that function and paying 10 for it out of the fund.11 The order eliminates link up 12 support for carriers serving non-tribal lands, 13 and on tribal lines only those carriers that 14 are high cost recipients would be able to get 15 Link Up. The Commission has found that Link 16 Up was being abused and that some carriers 17 were getting it; some weren't.18 The carriers that were getting it 19 were serving the same areas as those that 20 weren't getting it. So the Commission 21 concluded that it was a waste of resources for 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 106 the funds to be giving a Link Up subsidy to 1 some carriers and not others in the same area.2 Similarly but a little different, 3 toll limitation service: The order clarifies 4 who is even entitled to toll limitation 5 service support and who needs to provide it. 6 Basically, if a subscriber can pick up the 7 phone and dial -- make toll calls that incur 8 additional fees, then the carrier needs to 9 offer toll limitation service and could get 10 support. But if the subscriber is offered all 11 distance minutes where it can't incur any 12 additional charges for making a toll call, 13 then toll limitation service is not necessary 14 and, certainly, the carrier should not be 15 seeking support for it.16 The order adopts a 60-day non-17 usage condition, which really only applies to 18 prepaid wireless carriers that offer the 19 service for free. The order does not require 20 a minimum charge. The carriers are still 21 allowed to offer the service for free like 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 107 they have been doing, but those free carriers 1 have this extra condition, that they need to 2 make sure that the subscriber is using the 3 service.4 So after 60 days, if that customer 5 has not used the service, they need to check 6 in with them and see if they want to continue 7 with the service, and if they don't, then they 8 have to be de-enrolled from Lifeline, and that9 carrier shouldn't be seeking money from the 10 fund.11 We also established activation 12 requirements, that phones couldn't be shipped 13 to people that were pre-activated, because we 14 got some complaints that consumers were 15 shipped phones that they never ordered, and 16 they were already activated. So that company 17 was seeking money from the fund, but nobody 18 was actually using the service. So somebody 19 needs to activate the service before that 20 carrier can seek reimbursement under the fund.21 One part of the order relates to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 108 consumer disclosures. It is called Marketing 1 and Outreach, but it is largely a disclosure 2 section about what consumers need to be told 3 about the service, that the product is a 4 Lifeline supported product, that it is a 5 government benefit, and what you need for 6 enrollment.7 Some of the things we were seeing, 8 like these "refer a friend" programs where you 9 could send a Lifeline link to somebody that 10 wasn't even eligible. So that needs to be 11 clear, that you need to be eligible in order 12 to qualify for the benefit, and it is a 13 benefit for low income consumers, not just 14 something that anybody can get.15 There is also in this same section 16 of the order a discussion about the need for 17 consumer outreach about the new rule, and this 18 is where I think the Consumer Advisory 19 Committee can really play a role. I don't 20 know when you are meeting next, but this is 21 something I would love for you to give us some 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 109 recommendations for how we and the Consumer 1 Government Affairs Bureau -- Gayle Teicher is 2 here from that Bureau -- We are going to be 3 working on a campaign to reach consumers about 4 what the new rules are.5 One of the things we did during 6 the duplicate process was public service 7 announcements in the states, and the 8 Intergovernmental Affairs folks that go out to 9 conferences were passing out literature. That 10 will all be updated, but if you all feel that 11 there are other ways that we can reach 12 consumers, we would love to hear it. So I 13 encourage you to look at that section of the 14 order.15 There are audit provisions for new 16 carriers as well as ones that are independent 17 audit requirements for carriers that take more 18 than 5 million on annual from the fund.19 It also moves the -- Right now, 20 the program basically pays people on projected 21 lines, and this will move the program to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 110 people actually submitting for actual. It is 1 really an administrative issue, but that all 2 happens in the fall.3 Then as Josh was talking about, 4 the order establishes a broadband pilot. It 5 sets aside $25 million for the pilot that 6 would -- The way we envision -- The order sets 7 forth kind of an outline of how this would 8 work, but there will be a public notice 9 calling for pilot participants, and there will 10 be at least 45 days for carriers to file their 11 applications to participate in the pilot.12 Then there would be a selection 13 process, and the pilot participants then will 14 offer broadband service to qualifying low 15 income consumers. I know there were some 16 questions about the school lunch. Well, t his 17 would be all the Lifeline eligibility 18 criteria, both income as well as all the 19 programs.20 So it will be a broad community 21 that would be able to participate in this, and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 111 we are looking forward to having a robust 1 pilot. We have had some interest, some 2 carriers that have called and asked questions 3 about it. So we are hoping that we will see a 4 good size number of applicants.5 Then there is a further notice 6 attached to the item. I won't go into detail 7 about it, but those comments will be due 30 8 days after it is published, and I am hoping it 9 will be published by March 1st. So they will 10 be due around April 1st, and we will do a 11 public notice announcing the comment phase.12 I talked longer than I wanted to. 13 So I apologize, and I can take a couple of 14 questions.15 CHAIR BERLYN: I am going to go 16 around this side. Well, it looks like the 17 cards are actually coming with the exception 18 of Paul who I passed on last time. So I am 19 going to go to Paul first, and then I am going 20 to go from that end of the table, since we 21 started here last time. So, Paul.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 112 We are running behind, of course, 1 and I know you have a meeting. So we are 2 going to try to get as many questions in. 3 Paul, and then Cecilia.4 MR. SCHROEDER: Thanks. Paul 5 Schroeder with the American Foundation for the 6 Blind. No statement.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, thank you.8 MR. SCHROEDER: Any provisions 9 regarding the kind of phones that are 10 distributed, if people with disabilities are 11 requesting in terms of access features, how is 12 that being handled?13 MS. SCARDINO: That is something 14 that we have teed up for resolution in Notice 15 of Proposed Rule Making. So it is not a draft 16 in the order. There is nothing specific 17 related. The devices are not supported under 18 the fund. It is the service itself. So we 19 didn't address that issue in the order.20 MR. SCHROEDER: So that is to say 21 that somebody with a disability would be 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 113 eligible for the service and not be able to 1 obtain an equipment -- a device that is 2 accessible under that order?3 MS. SCARDINO: Well, it just 4 depends on if the ETC offers the service. 5 There is not a discussion in here about the 6 devices, because those aren't supported by the 7 fund.8 MR. SCHROEDER: I'm sorry. The 9 issue is no longer relevant. Is there not 10 going to be an opportunity to comment on that? 11 We missed it, obviously.12 MS. SCARDINO: I think, in the 13 further notice where it asks about the support 14 levels, you could always weigh in on that 15 issue in the further notice.16 MR. SCHROEDER: Thank you.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Cecilia.18 MS. GARCIA: Cecilia Garcia with 19 the Benton Foundation. I have a real quick 20 question, and it has to do with some of the 21 savings that are being derived from kind of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 114 addressing fraud, waste and abuse.1 We have heard that at least 25 2 million, as you say, of those savings are 3 going to be dedicated to the broadband pilot 4 programs. I have also heard that an 5 additional up to 50 million may be used for 6 digital literacy, also derived from the 7 savings there.8 So my question is: While we re 9 very supportive of the effort for digital 10 literacy, the concern is will that effort be 11 within the USF framework so that 12 accountability is built into it; and if not, 13 how will the FCC ensure that the low income 14 consumers for whom Lifeline is designed will 15 actually benefit from the digital literacy 16 funds, if it is derived from that?17 MS. SCARDINO: There is also a 18 savings target that we need to hit in 2012 or 19 keep track of. We are being very -- The rules 20 are very proactive at getting at that waste. 21 So we are fairly confident that -- We already 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 115 know, like for the broadband pilot, for 1 example, USAC filed an ex parte like three 2 weeks before the order was voted that 3 quantified the savings associated with just 4 doing the duplicate outreach in 12 states, 5 which was $35 million, just by looking at 6 duplicates in 12 states with the top four 7 carriers in those states.8 So we are going this year and 9 doing at least another 16 of those, and 10 expanding it to more carriers. So we are 11 confident that we will be able to -- I think 12 what your question is, is your concern that 13 there wouldn't be the funding available for 14 these things, but I think, in light of the new 15 rules, we think that the waste that is there 16 today that the rules will address that, like 17 the link up issue, for example.18 Link up this year was projected to 19 be $180 million, and we eliminated -- The 20 order eliminates it except for high cost 21 recipients on tribal lands.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 116 CHAIR BERLYN: Interesting. 1 Dorothy?2 MS. WALT: I participated July 1st 3 of this year in the National Deaf/Blind 4 Equipment Distribution Program, and I was just 5 thinking that Lifeline and Link Up would be 6 very beneficial for so many consumers who are 7 participating in that program. However, if I 8 remember correctly, the National Deaf-Blind 9 Equipment Distribution Program, the applicants 10 must meet the Federal poverty guideline of 400 11 percent.12 I think you said that Lifeline or 13 Link Up was 135 percent, if I am correct. I 14 am not sure if that is the right number, but I 15 am wondering how we are going to reconcile 16 those two figures, because many of the deaf-17 blind people who qualify for equipment under 18 the Deaf-Blind Equipment Distribution Program 19 at 400 percent of Federal poverty guidelines 20 will not qualify under -- if they are over 135 21 percent. Is that the right amount, 135 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 117 percent?1 MS. SCARDINO: It is 135 percent 2 of the Federal poverty guidelines.3 MS. WALT: Ah, right. So those 4 two programs are not going to reconcile, if 5 the deaf-blind person is over the 135 percent. 6 They don't quality for the Lifeline or the 7 Link Up. So I am seeing that might be an 8 unfair or sort of a discriminatory 9 reconciliation between the two programs, 10 because many deaf-blind people will probably 11 want to participate in the Lifeline or Link 12 Up. Thank you.13 CHAIR BERLYN: I think Karen is 14 going to -- Karen Peltz Strauss, our next 15 speaker, can address this at her presentation 16 which is up next in just a few minutes. One 17 more question, Stephen?18 MR. POCIASK: I am Steve Pociask. 19 I am with the American Consumer Institute. I 20 want to make sure I understand. You talked 21 about some individuals who would quality based 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 118 on programs, but you also said succinctly that 1 there also would be some income based. I want 2 to understand how that works.3 Let's say, for example, we have a 4 connected household with above average income, 5 just as an example. They have a child, a 22-6 year-old child out of school, not working. 7 They have, let's say, a spouse who receives 8 minimal income, but files separately. You 9 have an aunt who is retired living in a room 10 separately. 11 Do those individuals potentially 12 quality for Lifeline?13 MS. SCARDINO: It depends on --14 Potentially. It depends the way we set the 15 definition is all adult individuals 16 contributing to and sharing in the income and 17 expenses of the household. So it is an "and," 18 contributing to and sharing in the expenses of 19 the household.20 Those are the types of scenarios 21 that USAC will be developing for the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 119 materials. There is a link in the order. The 1 WIC program has really a great tool that we 2 found online that allows people to input all 3 those scenarios that you just mentioned to 4 figure out who on that list could quality.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much, 6 Kim. It is great information. You 7 synthesized a very long order for us. So we 8 greatly appreciate that. So thank you.9 MS. SCARDINO: All right. Great. 10 Thanks.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Hang in there, 12 gang. We are almost at a break, but if you 13 could, just stay seated for another one of our 14 speakers who has been very patient with our 15 scheduling this morning.16 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Do you all 17 want to stand up? Everybody stand up and 18 stretch.19 CHAIR BERLYN: I am not sure that 20 will help, because I think what we need is not 21 a stretch, but that is okay.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 120 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Seventh inning 1 stretch. I am a little bit nervous about 2 standing between you and the next speaker and 3 lunch.4 CHAIR BERLYN: We are going to 5 take a break after Karen. So we are almost at 6 the home stretch.7 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Okay. Well, 8 bear with me.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Karen Peltz 10 Strauss, Deputy Chief of Consumer and 11 Governmental Affairs. Thank you for your 12 patience this morning. We always think we are 13 going to do really well with our schedule, and 14 we never do. So we greatly appreciate your 15 patience in joining us again this morning to 16 talk about what you do on disability rights 17 with the Bureau. So thank you, Karen.18 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Sure. My 19 pleasure. It is great to be back and to chat 20 with you. I think the last time that I 21 addressed you all, I was only here to talk 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 121 about the clearinghouse, which means that we 1 have done a lot since the last time our bureau 2 actually talked to you about disability 3 accomplishments here at the Commission. 4 So there is a long list. I am 5 going to give you an overview. Later on, Greg 6 Hlibok will be down here to meet with the 7 breakout session, but always feel free to 8 contact me individually, if you need more 9 information about any of these issues. 10 A lot of you around the table know 11 these issues very well, having been very 12 involved in the proceedings as they were 13 making their way through the Commission.14 Over the last year, we have issued 15 a multitude -- that is the only word I can 16 describe -- of orders and had a multitude of 17 proceedings on disability issues, largely to 18 implement the 21st Century Communications and 19 Video Accessibility Act, also known as the 20 CVAA.21 Among other things, we issued22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 122 rules last April on the Deaf-Blind Equipment 1 Distribution Program. In August, we issued 2 the video description rules, which require 3 narration, narrative descriptions of what is 4 going on visually on a television program that 5 are inserted into natural causes of television 6 program, so that blind people can follow along 7 with the program. Those were rules that 8 reinstated rules that had been overturned by a 9 court back in the early 2000s.10 In October we issued very 11 comprehensive rules. I think the report and 12 order in that case is 300 pages on advanced 13 communication services and equipment to make 14 sure that people can access -- people with 15 disabilities can access services and equipment 16 that are used with the Internet, for the most 17 part, and it is focused on communications, not 18 video programming, so things like instant 19 messaging, electronic mail, and interconnected 20 and non-interconnected VOIP services and 21 equipment used with those services.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 123 We also issued in October rules 1 requiring VOIP, V-o-I-P, providers to 2 contribute to the Telecommunications Relay 3 Service Fund. This expanded our current 4 rules. We actually already had rules in place 5 requiring telecommunications carriers and 6 interconnected VOIP providers to do so. This 7 expanded our rules to non-interconnected VOIP.8 More recently, we issued rules 9 requiring captions that are on television 10 programs to be retained on those programs when 11 they are delivered via Internet protocol. so 12 that is a fairly substantial change. 13 Before, there were so such 14 requirements, and now when people who are deaf 15 and hard of hearing miss a television program 16 on TV or want to see it again, if it has 17 already had captions when it is shown on TV, 18 those captions have to be there when they are 19 shown on the Internet.20 There are deadlines and timetables 21 and various schedules for each of these. I 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 124 don't have time to go through all of them now, 1 but there is a gradation of requirements over 2 the next several years for each of these.3 We also took some other actions as 4 well that are not related to the CVAA. Last 5 April we issued -- We actually are engaged in 6 a very significant effort at the Commission to 7 reform the way the program for video relay 8 service is conducted. This is to try to 9 restore and maintain the integrity of this 10 program, to rid it of some of the fraud and 11 abuse that it has become subject to in recent 12 years. 13 So last April we issued what we 14 call the April Fraud VRS Order. It actually 15 covers a little bit of IP relay as well, 16 putting into place lots of requirements and 17 prohibitions against certain actions that are 18 designed to minimize and eliminate fraud in 19 that program. 20 In July, we also adopted new 21 certification procedures for VRS and IP relay 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 125 services, again to make sure that the 1 providers that are providing these services2 are doing so in full compliance with our 3 rules, and there may be some people around the 4 table who don't know what relay services are. 5 They are basically communication 6 services that typically use a person in 7 between the caller and the called person, and8 they have lots of different forms. You could 9 have a deaf or hard of hearing person using a 10 text device. It could either by a TTY or an 11 Internet text device, and then that person 12 calls the person at the other end, but a 13 communication assistant in the middle will 14 read what the person types and type back to 15 that individual.16 You could have video relay, as I 17 mentioned, which is sign language interpreters 18 where the deaf or hard of hearing or speech 19 disabled person signs to an interpreter that 20 is a communication assistant, and then the CA 21 interprets what that person says to the other 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 126 person, and then signs back. 1 There is speech to speech, and 2 that is a service that has the person in the 3 middle converting what the individual is 4 saying. The person might have a whisper or 5 have a stutter or a stammer or some kind of 6 other speech disability, and may have trouble 7 talking directly to the other individual. A 8 lot of people will hang up on people that 9 sound different. So this person in the middle 10 then repeats what the individual says.11 Finally, there is something called 12 caption telephone, which allows people who are 13 typically hard of hearing and still have their 14 voices to speak directly to the other person 15 and to have the relay service -- well, to be 16 able to hear with their residual hearing a 17 little bit of what the other person is saying, 18 but to have the relay service send back in 19 text what that other person is saying.20 Typically the CA, the 21 communication assistant, in this case repeats 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 127 what the responding party is saying into a 1 speech to text recognition program, and then 2 that individual with the hearing disability 3 can, when it is converted to text, read what 4 the responding party is saying, but they can 5 also have a direct connection and listen to 6 what that individual is saying.7 So these are some of the various 8 VRS, TRS, caption telephone, speech -- these 9 are some of the various programs that we 10 implement on an ongoing basis.11 We also in this past -- Oh, and I 12 am sorry. In July, we issued this 13 certification order, because some of these 14 services are IP based, and they are not 15 regulated or certified through states, and 16 some of our intrastate analog PSTN based 17 components of TRS do have oversight by the 18 states, but these IP based programs, whenever 19 relay goes over in IP form, there is no state 20 oversight. So we are trying to step up the 21 FCC's oversight.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 128 In addition to the certification 1 order, this past December we released a Notice 2 of Proposed Rule Making to consider changes 3 structurally in how we reimburse VRS and also 4 how VRS is provided. This is in addition to 5 some of the measures we took to curb fraud, 6 and comments are due on that this coming March 7 9th and the 30th, and we are hoping to get 8 something out sometime late spring. 9 Very complicated issues. We are10 going to have to work through these issues. 11 We don't want to rush it, but it is our goal 12 to try to compete this proceeding in a timely 13 fashion.14 We also have a lot of work on 15 closed captioning. We are constantly working 16 on closed captioning issues. As I mentioned, 17 the IP Captioning Order came out. In addition 18 to that, we are working on a closed captioning 19 order on quality. 20 That has been pending before the 21 Commission for about seven years or so. It 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 129 was a result of a petition filed by consumers 1 in 2004 out of concerns that not every 2 channel, every network, has been producing 3 programming with captioning quality that 4 allows individuals to understand the content 5 of programming. 6 So we are looking at ways that 7 will be fair to both consumers and the 8 programmers that achieve that result and 9 achieve some consistency across programming. 10 We do not have a timetable for that as of yet.11 We also, in October, released what 12 is called the Anglers -- a lot of different 13 names. It is the Anglers Reversal MO&O, 14 Memorandum Opinion and Order, which overturned 15 a series of exemptions that had been granted 16 by CGB in the past that we felt had not gone 17 through the necessary processes for reviewing 18 exemptions.19 Under our rules, an entity can 20 petition for an exemption from the captioning 21 rules, if they believe that they would 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 130 experience what is now called an economic 1 burden or that it would be economically 2 burdensome for them to provide captions. At 3 the time that this order -- the original order 4 granting the exemptions was granted, the 5 terminology was undue burden. The CVA has 6 changed it to economically burdensome.7 The results of overturning these 8 original petitions was to have approximately 9 300 additional -- Originally, there were two 10 petitions granted, two exemptions granted, but 11 then there were approximately 300 more linked 12 to the rationale in an original decision that 13 had granted those two petitions.14 The Commission here decided that 15 all of them had not been reviewed 16 appropriately and were based on an incorrect 17 standard, and so as a consequence, reversed 18 all of the exemptions.19 We then sent out letters to each 20 of the petitioners that had their exemptions 21 reversed. Mind you, while their exemptions 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 131 were pending this entire time, they were 1 actually getting an exemption. So there was 2 no harm in reversing these, because what we 3 told each one is that you may refile.4 So we have gotten some refiles, 5 and those exemptions are still pending. Many 6 of these entities -- many of them are small --7 did not refile. So those petitions have been 8 dismissed, and we are now continuing to make 9 our way through several additional petitions 10 that were filed between 2006 or 2007 --11 actually, some even filed before -- and now, 12 to make sure that they are all going to be 13 reviewed, if they are still needed, with the 14 new standard, which is actually the original 15 standard for determining whether or not a 16 station or a network should -- or channel or 17 programmer should get a captioning exemption. 18 The short way of saying that is 19 that we are working through our backlog of 20 exemption requests, and we are hoping to -- We 21 are gradually getting this under control.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 132 It was mentioned before that we 1 have this National Deaf-Blind Equipment 2 Distribution Program. We are hoping to get 3 this up and running in July. This is a 4 phenomenal program, the first time that the 5 Commission ever took affirmative steps to make 6 sure that the deaf-blind population has access 7 to equipment that is specifically designed to 8 assist people who are deaf-blind to access 9 communications, specifically 10 telecommunications and advanced communication 11 services.12 We are now reviewing petitions, or 13 rather applications, for certification by 14 state and local programs that want to 15 implement this program. It is basically a 16 locally based -- The distributions will be 17 occurring from local programs, even though we 18 are coordinating it on a national basis.19 We are also looking at 20 applications from entities that want to 21 provide outreach for this. We have an 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 133 outreach component as well.1 In answer to your question earlier 2 about the inconsistency between qualification 3 -- the income qualifications between the two 4 programs, what Rebecca explained to me -- I am 5 not as familiar with the Lifeline program as 6 she is, but she said that, if individuals meet 7 the guidelines for certain Federal programs 8 like Medicaid, even if they have more income 9 than what is specified for Lifeline, they can 10 still qualify.11 So there may be some individuals 12 that fall between -- I think it is 135 percent 13 for Lifeline and 400 percent -- You were 14 right, it is 400 percent for the National 15 Deaf-Blind Program -- they may still quality 16 for Lifeline.17 The reason that we established 18 such a lenient, for lack of a better word, or 19 a liberal interpretation of the income 20 qualifications for the National Deaf-Blind 21 Program is because we received on the record a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 134 lot of information about the very high costs, 1 medical and personal assistance costs and 2 other costs related to being deaf-blind that 3 were so common for deaf-blind people. 4 So we didn't want to exclude 5 anybody that might have an income that is even 6 300 percent of the Federal poverty level, if 7 all of their expenses are bringing them down 8 to 100 percent of the poverty level.9 So we went to 400 percent, which 10 was what some of the state equipment 11 distribution programs do. That was the max 12 that we saw that some of the state equipment 13 distributions do. so we felt comfortable 14 using that as a cutoff.15 Something else that we are very 16 active in now is NG911. We have our Emergency 17 Access Advisory committee, which was created 18 under the CVAA, which conducted a survey last 19 spring to determine the preferred methods of 20 providing emergency access -- of using 21 emergency access technologies for people with 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 135 disabilities.1 That committee developed a report 2 based on that survey, containing 3 recommendations to the Commission. It gave us 4 that report on December 7th, as was required 5 by the legislation, but the committee decided 6 to continue its work and go into more depth 7 with respect to trying to refine what those 8 recommendations are.9 They have developed seven 10 different subcommittees for this purpose. 11 Just by way of example, there are committees 12 on using text to 911, for Mobile Solutions 13 pre-NG911, using sign language with PSAPs, TTY 14 transition. Again, there are approximately 15 seven committees.16 We are hosting -- You may be 17 interested in knowing this. At the end of 18 March, on March 28th and 29th, we are hosting 19 an exhibition fair here at the Commission 20 where we will be having on display and having 21 demos of proposed interim text to 911 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 136 solutions, again pre-the full blown NG911.1 The reason that we are hosting it 2 then is because this is on the tails of NENA's 3 -- the National Emergency Number Association's 4 "911 Goes to Washington." Then also on the 5 30th, the VPAAC will be having one of its 6 committee meetings. 7 So it is going to be 911 week, 8 basically, and we understand that there is 9 another demo happening on the 26th. So if you 10 are interested in 911, this is the place to 11 be.12 The other things that we are 13 working on are the accessibility 14 clearinghouse. Again, we talked to you about 15 that last time. We just wanted to let you 16 know that we are still working on it actively. 17 We have meetings on it, it seems like, every 18 day. We are concerned. We are not getting a 19 lot of hits on it yet. Clearly, we need to do 20 outreach. 21 We are required by the Act to do 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 137 outreach, and we are working on improvements. 1 We are very excited. We think it is a great 2 clearinghouse, and we are looking forward to 3 working with this community and others to make 4 sure that this does reach the intended 5 population.6 The next thing is HAC, Hearing Aid 7 Compatibility. We haven't released a whole 8 bunch in that area for a while, but we do have 9 pending some new standards, and we also have 10 pending a rule making to make sure that 11 equipment use with Advanced Communication 12 Services are also hearing aid compatible, and 13 we are expecting that the Wireless Bureau will 14 be working on that again in the coming months.15 Finally, what is left is the 16 VPAAC, the Video Programming Access 17 Accessibility Advisory Committee, which is the 18 other CVAA advisory committee that was 19 created, is working on three remaining issues, 20 and they have to deliver reports to us in 21 April on making sure that emergency 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 138 information provided on television programming 1 is accessible to blind people, making sure 2 that the equipment used for video programming 3 can convey that emergency information, and 4 also that that equipment can convey -- that 5 that equipment has user interfaces that are 6 accessible to people with disabilities, 7 including accessing volume control, changing 8 channels, menu guides.9 Very difficult right now for a 10 blind person to navigate those types of 11 interfaces and controls on a television, and 12 finally making sure that this equipment can 13 pass through or render video description. 14 So there is still a tremendous 15 amount of work being done by that committee 16 that will be coming to us in April, and then 17 we have another 12 to 18 months, depending on 18 the issue, to issue rules.19 The other thing that is happening 20 that still is pending is the Advanced 21 Communication Services item. Even though we 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 139 issued rules in October, there are some pieces 1 left out, and we have to complete those with 2 respect to -- The issues that are outstanding 3 are browsers on mobile phones, video 4 conferencing, and a small business exemption, 5 among others.6 So we received comments on this, I 7 think, February 13th. I think the replies are 8 still due by March 12th or 14th -- 12th? I 9 have the 14th, but in any case, they are due 10 mid-March. Then we are going to start looking 11 at those, and that is another proceeding that 12 we are going to have.13 Finally, we just last week or the 14 week before issued a Public Notice seeking 15 comment on IP relay. It was a refresh notice 16 to follow up on a Notice of Proposed Rule 17 Making that we issued. I think it was in 18 2006, asking about measures that we can take 19 to curb fraud and abuse of IP relay, again.20 Unfortunately, although these are 21 programs designed to assist relay users, they 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 140 have become subject to abuse that had not been 1 anticipated when they were first created. So 2 we are trying to crack down on that.3 So that is it, and I know that you 4 are tired. I am tired from going through 5 this, and I know that you don't have a whole 6 lot of time. I don't know if you want to take 7 questions, if you have any questions now or 8 you want to bring them up during the 9 disabilities section and just take your break 10 now. Any questions?11 CHAIR BERLYN: If you have time 12 for a couple of questions, if anyone does have 13 a couple of questions. Paul?14 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder, 15 American Foundation for the Blind. I will 16 just ask you, Karen, that same question I just 17 asked about Lifeline and equipment.18 Is this something that could be 19 dealt with by the Commission to ensure that 20 people who have access to handsets under the 21 new Lifeline requirements can, in fact, find 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 141 handsets that are accessible for people with 1 disabilities, because it is at that low end of 2 the equipment that people have had the most 3 trouble finding accessible handsets?4 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: I wasn't here 5 when you asked the first question. So I am 6 not sure what it is predicated on, but I do 7 know that you are right, that there are 8 issues, especially for the blind community 9 that there are significant problems with being 10 able to find lower end phones, because it is 11 the higher end phones that tend to have the 12 accessibility.13 The only thing that I could 14 suggest is that I will talk to Kim about this 15 and confer with the Wireline Bureau to see 16 whether there is something that can be worked 17 out, but I can tell you that it is something 18 that really does concern us.19 We hosted some events here, some 20 workshops, to address that, and we just 21 continue to encourage individuals to feel free 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 142 to file complaints when they see phones that 1 are not accessible, and we will try to address 2 those that way.3 Basically, Section 255 of the 4 Communications Act and now Section 716 are 5 both complaint driven. So 716, which is the 6 Advanced Communication Services -- filing 7 complaints for those has not gone into effect 8 yet, but many of the phones that you are 9 talking about are still under 255.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone else 11 have a question for Karen? Karen, thank you 12 so much. Your work is exhaustive and 13 exhausting. We really appreciate your being 14 here. You have done so much at the Commission 15 and at the Bureau, and we greatly appreciate 16 your coming and talking to us again.17 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: It is my 18 pleasure, and I just want to say that, 19 clearly, because I am here, I get the credit, 20 but it is not only me. Obviously, there are 21 teams and teams, multiple teams, of people 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 143 around the agency that have spent hours on 1 weekends, evenings, given many, many hours of 2 their free time to meet these high deadlines 3 imposed by the CVAA, and to achieve these 4 other goals.5 So whenever I get the chance, I 6 thank those individuals, because they have 7 been absolutely extraordinary. So it has been 8 very, very gratifying, being able to work with 9 all of these individuals and to watch this 10 administration's commitment to making sure 11 that these issues get addressed in a timely 12 fashion.13 Thank you as well for all of your 14 input.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, Karen. So 16 here is what we are going to do. We are going 17 to take a much needed break. It will be a 18 real break and a phone break.19 I know that Betty is out front 20 waiting to receive lunch for us all. So take 21 a look at your agenda with me. What we are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 144 going to do is we are going to shuffle it a 1 little bit.2 I do feel like the roundtable 3 discussion is important, and I want to do that 4 before we break into our working groups, so 5 that working groups can discuss any of the 6 issues that are brought up during the 7 roundtable discussion.8 So what we are going to do is we 9 are going to take our break. Hopefully,. 10 after we take a break and check our email and 11 make any phone calls we want to make, that 12 will time us well with lunch appearing, 13 magically appearing, on the table over here, 14 which it has not yet. 15 Then we will take a real, true 16 lunch break here in the room and another 17 little network break. That will take us to 18 about 12:15. Then at 12:15, we are going to 19 have our roundtable discussion from 12:15 to 20 12:45, and then we are going to do our 21 breakout sessions from 12:45 to 1:45. Scott 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 145 will tell us where those rooms will be.1 Scott asked our working group 2 chairs which working groups wanted to have 3 breakout sessions. I think the Media Group 4 has already done a meeting. So they are not 5 going to have a breakout session. I know the 6 USF Working Group does want to have a 7 breakout. I think the Broadband Working Group 8 is going to meet. Is that right? Okay. The 9 Disability Group is going to meet here. I 10 know that.11 Ed, what about the Consumer? You 12 are going to have a brief meeting. So you may 13 go meet, and then join one of the other 14 working groups. Great. Excellent.15 So after our roundtable 16 discussion, Scott will give us the different 17 room numbers so that we don't forget them 18 between now and the breakout, because I know I 19 would. 20 So let's take a break and then 21 stay in the room for lunch, and then we will 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 146 have our roundtable discussion at around 1 12:15.2 Thanks, everybody. This has been 3 a great morning.4 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 5 went off the record at 11:35 a.m. and resumed 6 at 12:18 p.m.)7 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We are going 8 to get started again. To keep us on schedule, 9 we are going to start our roundtable 10 discussion. 11 So what I want to do with this 12 time that we have before our roundtable 13 discussion is to give everyone an opportunity 14 to raise any issues that you have heard about 15 this morning, as well as raise any other 16 issues that you have thought about that you 17 think the Consumer Advisory committee should 18 address that we haven't yet talked about, so 19 that we can assign those issues to working 20 groups to talk about today and going forward.21 Before we do that, I just want to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 147 mention two issues that speakers this morning 1 talked about that we will, hopefully, work on 2 going forward. One, Kris Monteith and Bill 3 Freedman talked about, which is getting our 4 feedback on the complaint process. 5 So I will be getting a little bit 6 more information from the Bureau staff about 7 what they are looking for from us, and then we 8 will set up some sort of process for working 9 on that for them. We will find out a little 10 bit more about what kind of feedback, in 11 particular, they want from the CAC, what would 12 be most helpful, and then we will figure out a 13 process for going forward there.14 Then the other one that we heard 15 about this morning was from Kim Scardino. She 16 said that she would appreciate some feedback 17 on outreach efforts that they could undertake 18 for reaching consumers and educating them 19 about the new Lifeline rules, and providing 20 information for consumers about that. So I 21 think that would be another good one.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 148 It would make sense, I think, for 1 our USF Working Group to start off in talking 2 about that. So perhaps you can talk about 3 that today in your working group, and bring 4 that back to the full CAC today, if you want 5 to talk about that a little bit with us, and 6 about the process that you will take on 7 thinking about that, if there are other CAC 8 members who might want to participate in that.9 Those are two things I heard this 10 morning, but now I would like to open it up to 11 all of you to other thoughts you have on this 12 morning's discussion and other issues. So 13 anyone want to kick it off? Barry? Please, 14 tent cards and hand raising, and then pull the 15 mike close.16 MR. UMANSKY: Thanks, Debbie. As 17 you know, I have been uncharacteristically 18 silent so far today. What I want to do before 19 you guys break out in the working groups is to 20 have you think about something, and we are 21 going to have a further discussion with the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 149 Media Working Group dialogue, our 1 presentation, right after the breakouts.2 We talked a lot about disclosure 3 so far today, disclosure of information to 4 consumers. Today, right now, in front of the 5 Supreme Court there is a protest going on 6 dealing with what they call Citizens United 2, 7 a Supreme Court decision tossing out a state 8 requirement of placing limitations on 9 corporate campaign funds going into candidates 10 and the independent groups.11 Of course, you know about the 12 Citizens United case. There is nothing the 13 FCC can do to overturn a Supreme Court 14 decision. There is nothing, really, the 15 Congress can do either to overturn a Supreme 16 Court decision, but that decision, the 17 Regional Citizens United, even the one today, 18 suggested that voters, consumers, would have 19 full access to information as to who is trying 20 to persuade them. But the way the FCC has 21 been interpreting a longstanding provision of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 150 the Communications Act, Section 317, has 1 really failed to provide that kind of 2 disclosure.3 The FCC made the judgment years 4 ago, well before we had the onslaught of 5 millions and millions of dollars from all kind 6 of groups that it would not normally require 7 piercing the veil, although it says it was 8 essentially a shell organization that would be 9 signing a check for the medium of 10 communications who run the ad.11 Only a couple of times in the most 12 extraordinary circumstances has the FCC 13 required that the actual fronters of the money 14 be disclosed to the audience, be disclosed to 15 the viewing or listening public. 16 Well, I have talked to many of the 17 people in the Media Working Group, and in our 18 presentation later today, and in formal 19 recommendations we will have in June, we want 20 to have a recommendation that the FCC, on its 21 own and also in a recommendation to Congress -22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 151 - and we have already established at the last 1 meeting that one provision of the 2 Communications Act requires that the FCC let 3 Congress know periodically what kind of 4 legislative changes might be made to help it 5 fulfill its mission.6 Bobby Baker was supposed to have 7 been here late this morning to talk about 8 these issues. He is not around. A couple of 9 things we were going to recommend to Bobby is 10 that they issue public notices explaining 11 again to consumers what the heck is going on 12 here.13 Number two: To explain to all 14 advertisers, not just broadcasters -- I'm 15 sorry, to all media, not just broadcasters, 16 the consequences of running spots that may be 17 misleading. More importantly, we were going 18 to urge, and we will mention this again this 19 afternoon -- There has been a petition pending 20 at the FCC for about 10 months. Not I don't 21 think everybody necessarily embraces every 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 152 part of it, but it would require that the FCC 1 take a second look at how it is implementing a 2 Federal statute that would require that people 3 like you and me know who is trying to persuade 4 them in commercial advertising, including 5 political spots.6 There is also a bill on Capitol 7 Hill recently introduced, H.R. 4010. It is 8 our proposal. Our Media Working Group urged 9 the FCC to embrace those concepts, to start 10 its own internal proceeding, and to kind of 11 raise the dialogue on what can be done under 12 existing and proposed legislation to cure this 13 problem. More details at 1:45, I believe. 14 Thank you.15 CHAIR BERLYN: A couple of things, 16 Barry. First of all, Barry mentioned Bobby 17 Baker of the FCC, and just to let everybody 18 know, Scott invited Bobby Baker to come and 19 speak today, and he definitely wanted to be 20 here, and he had a family member who had 21 surgery today. So, unfortunately, he had to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 153 be out of town for that reason. So it is not 1 out of lack of wanting to be here.2 So I just wanted to mention that.3 Thank you, Barry, for teeing that issue up, 4 and we will look forward to more to come.5 MR. UMANSKY: By the way, a 6 footnote to history. Bobby Baker and I 7 started out -- I was an FCC attorney for seven 8 years. We started the very same day. We were 9 fingerprinted together as we started our 10 Federal employment back then. Thank you.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks. Mitsy.12 MS. HERRERA: Good afternoon. Two 13 things. One is I wanted to shamelessly just 14 take advantage of the fact that there were so 15 many of our partners from the deaf and hard of 16 hearing community in the room to alert them to 17 there is a piece of proposed Maryland 18 legislation which has a hearing on March 9th 19 in Annapolis at 1:00 p.m.20 It would create a tax commission 21 and a tax moratorium on telecommunications 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 154 taxes in Maryland. The state fund which 1 finances the relay services for telephone 2 services for the deaf will run out of money in 3 the end of FY '13, and if the tax moratorium 4 goes into place, they will have no means to 5 enact some new funding mechanism.6 So if any of you are interested in 7 that, if you could just see me, and I will 8 just separately give you information about 9 that. I am trying to find some people from 10 the deaf and hard of hearing community to come 11 and testify. That is a Friday, March 9th, in 12 Annapolis. That is at 1:00 p.m.13 The other issue I wanted to ask 14 generally in the CCAC is whether it should be 15 part of the General Disabilities Working Group 16 or whether a subgroup should be focused 17 particularly on video issues.18 The one, in particular, that has 19 been raised a lot in the last couple of 20 meetings is closed captioning. There is a lot 21 of information and new things that are coming 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 155 out there, and frankly, the FCC is not really 1 keeping up on some of those.2 So I want to know -- I see Julie 3 is not back yet -- whether there was some 4 interest in specifically focusing on video 5 issues, because a lot of what we deal with are 6 dealing with handsets, phonesets, and really 7 sort of focusing on television sets and video 8 communications.9 CHAIR BERLYN: I am turning to 10 Lise and Paul and our Disability -- Paul, do 11 you want to address that?12 MR. SCHROEDER: I think we have 13 had several conversations in the Disability 14 Work Group -- This is Paul Schroeder with AFB 15 -- about closed captioning issues and some of 16 the pending petitions at the FCC.17 Some of the video work, of course, 18 is under review and rule making or about to 19 be, and some of it is under the VPAAC, Video 20 Program Access Advisory Committee. So as I 21 recall, we were instructed or encouraged to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 156 not take up some of those issues that were 1 under another FCC Advisory Committee's area, 2 at least for the moment.3 As Karen mentioned, that report 4 will be issued in a couple of months, and then 5 a rule making will commence on those issues.6 Just while I have got the mike, I 7 was going to raise a similar point, though, 8 because I think one of the issues that we 9 haven't really discussed as a committee here, 10 and I don't know that we have heard from folks 11 in media to talk about -- There is a whole 12 raft of issues around television and video, 13 and Barry just mentioned one, and I know his 14 group has been working on a couple of others, 15 but there are many others that I think we shy 16 away from as consumer advocates sometimes 17 talking about television very much.18 This is true, I think, for the 19 blindness community, but it might be true for 20 the general consumer advocacy community, 21 because we don't think television is very 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 157 important, other than the fact that it is the 1 hugest media that people spend most of their 2 time with. So we don't think it is important, 3 because it is trash, but it is where people 4 spend a lot of time.5 Anyway, I have a lot of concerns 6 about the consumer access, open initiatives 7 effort for people to get access to media 8 outside of the traditional means and channels, 9 opening up cable and other systems so that 10 people can have competitive equipment, those 11 kinds of issues, some of which, I know, are 12 being adjudicated or heard by the Commission 13 and some of which are long time challenges up 14 here.15 So the direct answer to your 16 question, Mitsy: Absolutely, I think video is 17 within the Disability Work Group's area. We 18 are looking at some of the issues. Some, we 19 will probably look at in more detail as the 20 Video Program Advisory Committee's work ends, 21 and we may look at some of those issues and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 158 see what we would want to bring to the 1 Consumer Committee. 2 Then I think, as I said, while I 3 have got the microphone, I think there is a 4 whole host of broader media issues around TV 5 and consumer access to equipment and controls 6 and issues that I would love to see us wrestle 7 with.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise.9 MS. HAMLIN: If I could add to 10 that, we will be looking at captioning issues, 11 and we have been, again to the extent that it 12 doesn't overlap with CVAA. But if other 13 people are seeing trends or issues that we 14 miss, because that could certainly happen, and 15 you could see something locally that you are 16 beginning to see and want, I would really 17 welcome any input from anybody on the 18 committee who saw things that we should be 19 picking up that our group hasn't seen.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Steve.21 MR. POCIASK: Steve Pociask, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 159 American Consumer Institute. I think there is 1 an issue that we may want to consider going 2 forward dealing with online consumer privacy. 3 There has been a number of incidences over 4 the last few years that sort of exposed 5 consumer information to the public, the 6 collection of WiFi information, medical 7 records that are downloaded without consumers' 8 information.9 The latest example is Google's 10 work-around that undid the default settings 11 for Apple users, effectively collecting 12 information that they chose not to collect. 13 Essentially, it is sort of a work-around hack, 14 if you will.15 I think there should be some 16 expression of outrage for what has happened or 17 a statement maybe to the Federal Trade 18 Commission or to Congress to look further into 19 this, because my fear is some of these abuses 20 might, in the end, create some onerous 21 regulation on the industry which we may not 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 160 need, because there is a lot of good behavior 1 going on.2 It is just a series of incidences 3 that have happened by a collection of few that 4 we need to be aware of. This is people's 5 personal information, and while, in exchange 6 for that information, some people are getting 7 very useful services, we need to be aware 8 that, when this information is taken without 9 the consumer's consent, that it is theft, and 10 we should be outraged by that.11 Another example was location 12 information was put online where people could 13 see where they were located. So this is an 14 ongoing problem that we are having, and I 15 think it is something that we should have some 16 sort of group expression of outrage for. 17 Thank you.18 CHAIR BERLYN: I think it is a 19 very interesting issue. It is certainly very 20 timely with the White House recent White House 21 proposal that came out. It might be what I 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 161 would say -- and I am not sure what working 1 group to put this in, but it might be helpful 2 to have someone come and talk about the 3 jurisdictional issues with the FCC and the 4 FTC, because so much of this falls within the 5 jurisdiction of the FTC.6 So it might be interesting to find 7 out what jurisdiction the FCC has on online 8 privacy issues, so that we could then find out 9 how we could -- where we could be helpful in 10 terms of an advisory role. I think that that 11 might be helpful, perhaps at our next meeting, 12 to have someone come and talk about it. But, 13 yes, a really timely and important issue for 14 consumers. Thanks, Steve. 15 One other thing that -- I will 16 turn to you next, Art, and then I will speak. 17 Go ahead.18 MR. NEILL: Art Neill from Utility 19 Consumers Action Network in San Diego.20 Just as a follow-up on the online 21 privacy side of things: Besides the White 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 162 House announcing their privacy bill of rights, 1 there is also in California an effort that, 2 just in the last two days, the Attorney 3 General, Paul Harris, has taken with a number 4 of the Google, Apple, other Silicon Valley 5 companies, regarding online privacy. So you 6 might also keep an eye on that.7 Two issues I just wanted to 8 mention. I was going to mention this when 9 Bill Freedman was talking. Number one is: 10 You can as a group that deals directly with 11 consumers and helps them resolve disputes with 12 companies seize this issue of getting the 13 individual complaints to the point of 14 understanding trends that are going on.15 There is a disconnect there. 16 There are a couple of ways, I think, that you 17 can deal with that. In California, we 18 actually have a monthly meeting, for instance, 19 with the Consumer Advisory Bureau of the 20 California Public Utilities Commission to talk21 about some of the issues that are going on. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 163 That is something new that has developed 1 there.2 I think that, while it is great to 3 have openness and transparency, what the FCC 4 is finding, it is also good to hear from some 5 of these groups. I am sure there are other 6 groups in the room that speak to consumers 7 directly, and to be able to communicate some 8 of the trends that we are seeing and turning 9 those individual trends, instead one-off 10 situations where people are refunded five 11 dollars or they have their situation fixed, to 12 help the other.13 You know, when you see five or 10 14 people, there is usually hundreds or thousands 15 that are affected, and getting to that point 16 of systematic fixing is something that we are 17 really interested in. So we would want to 18 work with Bill and anyone else who is willing 19 to get better access to that information.20 The second -- I had one other 21 issue that I wanted to mention, and I will 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 164 have to come back to it, I guess.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Good 2 suggestion. One thing that I wanted --3 Another thing that I wanted to just respond to 4 is the whole Connect to Compete question and 5 where we fit into this. I know that the 6 Broadband Working Group recommended that we 7 have someone come and talk at this meeting to 8 update us on the Connect to Compete from One 9 Economy. So I just wanted to respond to that.10 We did have someone scheduled to 11 come from One Economy at this meeting, and 12 that didn't happen at the last minute, and 13 there is a commitment from One Economy to come 14 to our next meeting. So we will have someone 15 come to our next meeting.16 The CAC does have a role that Kris 17 asked Josh a question about. In the National 18 Broadband Plan, there is language in there 19 that says that the FCC should develop a 20 partnership to promote broadband adoption. So 21 this partnership was not named, of course. It 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 165 was an idea in the National Broadband Plan, 1 but the first step of that is this Connect to 2 Compete.3 It says in there that this 4 partnership -- that several things should 5 happen. One thing that should happen is that 6 the Consumer Advisory Committee should help 7 monitor this partnership. So we do have a 8 role to play in monitoring the progress of 9 Connect to Compete.10 So what does that mean? We are 11 not 100 percent sure exactly what that means, 12 but it means that we need to see what is going 13 on, and progress is being made, and have folks 14 come in and talk to us about it, and ourselves 15 make any recommendations we may want directly 16 to the partnership, One Economy, and also we 17 can to the FCC as well.18 So we will do that, and I think 19 what we are finding right now is -- and I know 20 that we have some of the -- We have the cable 21 partners who are involved as part of the CAC, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 166 but this is really in the very early stages of 1 development.2 Connect to Compete is just 3 organizing and getting going and working 4 toward a kickoff to time with the start of the 5 school year, 2012 school year. So they are 6 really putting this altogether now, and so 7 there really -- you know, the progress is --8 It is better served for them to come and talk 9 to us about what is happening at our next 10 meeting, and we will talk about when that next 11 meeting will be in June, but we will talk 12 about that later.13 That is what is going on. So I 14 just wanted to mention that.15 I see your card go up. Does 16 anyone want to respond to Connect to Compete 17 before I leave that? Okay. Yes, several 18 people, because I saw cards go up before I 19 started talking. So I wasn't sure. 20 I think Amalia's card went up 21 first, and Barry's did. So, Amalia, go ahead.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 167 MS. DELONEY: Just quickly on the 1 Connect to Compete piece. You know, we have a 2 lot of interest in following it through and 3 taking a more rigorous look at some of the 4 issues that we hear are being raised.5 To that end, I would also request 6 that we share the information of surveys that 7 were done by a group from Philadelphia called 8 Action United. It is a survey from a 9 community based organization that looks at 10 Connect to Compete and some of the challenges 11 they were seeing among their members. 12 It is something that is available 13 online, and I can certainly share the link 14 with people here, but I think as we look at 15 bringing in people to advise the committee or 16 talk to us both about the pros and the cons or 17 -- cons isn't the right word -- the great 18 things that are happening with the program and 19 some of the very real barriers and challenges 20 people are facing, it would be important to 21 think about how we could include the voices of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 168 Action United; because to date they have done 1 the only sort of community driven 2 participatory action research survey I know 3 about real people who are facing issues with 4 subscribing.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. That 6 would be great to have that link so we can 7 send that around to the CAC. 8 MR. SCHROEDER: Please ask people 9 to remember to state their names.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. That was 11 Amalia. If you could, Amalia, you can send 12 that directly to the CAC, so everybody could 13 take a look at that survey, that would be 14 great.15 MS. HAMLIN: Perfect. Then I have 16 one more question, but I can wait after people 17 finish.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Other comments on 19 the Connect to Compete? Barry and then mark.20 MR. UMANSKY: This is Barry 21 Umansky, Digital Policy Institute. Really, an 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 169 offer.1 Yesterday evening, Dr. Yadon and I 2 had dinner with Kelly Dunn, who had been one 3 of the key people, and still is, with Connect 4 to Compete, very much involved with One 5 Economy, and he is continuing to be an advisor 6 to that group and will continue to be 7 integrally involved with Connect to Compete.8 He has offered to speak to our 9 plenary group, to working groups, to be on 10 conference calls, and to help with the 11 assessment of metrics on how the process is 12 going. 13 He is a tremendous resource. I 14 strongly suggest we take advantage of his 15 offer to give us guidance, direction, and some 16 good information as well.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, Barry. 18 Josh also mentioned Nicol Turner-Lee, who is 19 with the Joint Center for Political and 20 Economic Studies, who has responsibility to 21 collect the metrics for Connect to Compete. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 170 So we probably will want her to come and talk 1 at some point. They have done amazing work on 2 broadband adoption. So I think she would be 3 an excellent resource as well. Mark?4 MR. DEFALCO: Mark Defalco with 5 the Appalachian Regional Commission.6 I am disappointed that somebody 7 from Connect to Compete could not make it. I 8 mean, we gave them a substantial warning. It 9 would have been good if they could have been 10 here, but a broader issue that, I think, is 11 all relative to this.12 The working group, the Broadband 13 Working Group, has spent a lot of time talking 14 about the Connect to Compete process, talking 15 about the Comcast process in terms of trying 16 to get the adoption out there, and the 17 adoption for the free school lunch program.18 So when Josh was here, he had 19 mentioned the two significant things that the 20 Chairman was trying to do right now relative 21 to broadband, and it was access and adoption. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 171 We as a committee really can't do a whole lot 1 with the access issue, other than kind of say 2 that we would like everybody to have access, 3 try to make access ubiquitous, but we all 4 understand the problems in terms of financing, 5 access into very rural areas.6 So that becomes a very big 7 stumbling block. Then you turn to the 8 adoption issue, and the adoption seems to be 9 where the Commission is putting a lot of 10 attention, and it certainly is where the 11 administration has put a lot of attention 12 through the dollars that were put out through 13 the stimulus program, through the BTOP program 14 in particular from NTIA, trying to help 15 communities put in broadband adoption 16 processes and best practices and things like 17 that. 18 So there are some models out there 19 that I think maybe could be useful. One thing 20 that I am struggling with myself, as well as 21 our group is struggling with, is trying to say 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 172 what role do we really have in this adoption 1 effort. It just seems like the FCC has said, 2 okay, we are going to create a spin-off or the 3 nonprofit Connect to Compete to take this role 4 of trying to work through the adoption issue.5 They have done a wonderful job in 6 terms of trying to get together some very good 7 partners to help them do what they are doing, 8 and we talked about the metrics a little bit, 9 and what do we put in place to try to monitor 10 what they are doing and make midstream 11 corrections if things are not doing the best 12 things they could be doing, but then it seems 13 like there is another party that is being 14 brought in to monitor the metrics. 15 So I am struggling, trying to 16 figure out what role do we really -- what role 17 should we be playing in this, especially since 18 the FCC has taken this issue and given it to a 19 third party, and then the third party has gone 20 to a fourth party for the metrics part of 21 this.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 173 So I don't know. We are spending 1 an awful lot of time on this, and maybe we 2 shouldn't be. Maybe we should be spending our 3 time doing something else. So a little 4 direction, I think, would be really good right 5 now.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Anyone else on 7 Connect to Compete? I have Mitsy. Okay.8 MS. HERRERA: I agree with Mark, 9 that some direction would be good and getting 10 feedback, but I would actually ask. We have 11 the folks from Connect to Compete here. Could 12 we also get somebody from NTIA, particularly 13 their sustainable broadband adoption; because 14 one thing I do think that we can bring to the 15 table is the glaring lack of coordination 16 between Federal agencies that are working on 17 the same issue.18 The fact that Josh works in the 19 Chairman's office and says that they don't 20 know about any of these programs, and NTIA has 21 compiled, I think, a big database of some of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 174 these local programs -- So one of the things I 1 think we can bring to the table is helping to 2 get these government agencies to talk to each 3 other.4 So I would ask, if we can, and we 5 have the Connect to Compete people, could we 6 also get somebody from NTIA?7 CHAIR BERLYN: What I would 8 suggest is that the Broadband Working Group 9 talk about that. Okay. Amalia, I think you 10 said you had another thought.11 MS. DELONEY: This is Amalia, 12 Center for Media Justice. I am not sure that 13 this is the right place, but I thought I would 14 raise it, because there is interest, at least 15 from several of us here.16 We are working with communities 17 across the country on the issue of the cost of 18 prison phone calls, particularly the 19 exorbitant cost that is borne by the family 20 members who have folks who are incarcerated, 21 either in jails or prisons or through 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 175 immigrant detention.1 This is something where there has 2 been a petition in front of the FCC for over 3 12 years. It is an issue that is bubbling up 4 again. There is impact at the Federal levels, 5 state level, and municipal level. It is a 6 consumer issue, more so tied to phones than it 7 is to broadbands.8 I would at least like to raise the 9 issue and hear from people whether or not 10 there is space at this table to talk about 11 these sorts of things, given the fact that at 12 least several groups here are actively engaged 13 in this issue.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Is there anyone who 15 wants to respond to that issue? Art?16 MR. NEILL: Just for what it is 17 worth, UCAN has done a number of individual 18 cases where there are lots of issues, as you 19 say, because there is monopolies given to 20 carriers in the prisons. So there is a lot of 21 abuse that takes place anytime you have a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 176 total monopoly.1 We have cases and probably stories 2 to share, and ways of solving individual 3 problems, as well as identifying trends. 4 CHAIR BERLYN: We are just 5 chatting to see if that falls within any of 6 the areas of our working group, and I am 7 having a hard time sort of figuring out what 8 it falls under. Yes? 9 There is a petition pending, you 10 said? You said there is something pending at 11 the FCC on this?12 MS. DELONEY: There has been a 13 petition in front of the FCC for, I believe, 14 12 years.15 CHAIR BERLYN: You know, an 16 organization that might have an interest in 17 that, and they are not here today, is NASUCA. 18 So unfortunately, their representative is not 19 here today. Lawrence, are you on the phone, 20 by any chance? No. Ken?21 MR. McELDOWNEY: I think one thing 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 177 that might be interesting to do would be for 1 the CAC to come up with a list of petitions 2 that have been sitting at the FCC for years, 3 and then get someone to come from the 4 Commission to sort of address those.5 There is no excuse for something 6 lasting 12 years, much less 12 weeks -- I mean 7 12 weeks, much less 12 years. That is just 8 inexcusable. My guess is it is sort of lost 9 in some dusty drawer somewhere.10 CHAIR BERLYN: It is a good idea. 11 Sounds like a good way to address it. Yes? 12 Mitsy?13 MS. HERRERA: I am sorry. Just 14 to follow up to that, I believe that there was 15 a report that they had to do for Congress. It 16 probably would have been within the last year, 17 which noted the backlog of FCC petitions that 18 they have failed to take action on. I would 19 note that for my brethren out there in the 20 public educational government access 21 community. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 178 They have had one about the 1 failure for people to get local -- to get AT&T 2 to carry local public educational and 3 government access petitions, and it has been 4 sitting at the FCC for over three years. It 5 is a widespread problem, particularly when the 6 FCC is confronted with a difficult issue.7 CHAIR BERLYN: I think we have the 8 start of some good thinking about this. So 9 let me think about how we sort of move this 10 forward, but it is a good idea, yes. Ed?11 MR. BARTHOLME: I was just going 12 to piggyback off of that and say --13 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, Ed, identify 14 yourself. Sorry.15 MR. BARTHOLME: I am Ed Bartholme 16 with Call for Action.17 In addition to some follow-up on 18 some of those things, the CAC in various 19 iterations has made a number of 20 recommendations to the FCC, and I don't 21 believe we have ever really gotten a formal 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 179 report back on any of the recommendations that 1 we have made.2 So even from an "in our own house" 3 standpoint, it would be nice to have somebody 4 just come and address some of the things that 5 we have put before the Commission over the 6 years. For one, there are new people at the 7 table who don't realize the things that we 8 have already acted on as a group or not 9 necessarily even when I was part of the group, 10 but that the group has already acted on.11 So it would be nice to know where 12 those things sit and where they might be 13 going, so that that way we can better focus 14 our energy and effort, so that we are not 15 duplicating effort and covering the same 16 issues again, especially if there is just no 17 interest in the Commission actually doing 18 anything about our suggestions.19 MR. UMANSKY: This is Barry 20 Umansky. I guess, in partial defense of the 21 FCC, there was an original plan to have a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 180 report back on one of our Media Working Group 1 and full CAC recommendations on evaluation of 2 the national EAS test.3 As it turns out, that person is 4 not here now, but there was definitely an 5 effort to at least respond to one. There was 6 a conflict or --7 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott is going to 8 respond. Scott, mike.9 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott 10 Marshall. We did invite Tom Beers who spoke 11 to us last time. Actually, he has been here a 12 couple of times, from the Public Safety and 13 Homeland Security Bureau. He wrote me 14 yesterday and said there is some data that 15 they now have. It is being reviewed, and I 16 believe he indicated that he would be briefing 17 the Chairman about it, and I know he is 18 interested in coming back in June, because we 19 talked about it.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So getting 21 back to -- Thank you, Scott. Getting back to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 181 Ed's point, I think it is a great one. We 1 make great recommendations. What happens to 2 them? We have seen -- To give ourselves some 3 credit, we have seen our recommendations 4 appear in orders, like Lifeline is a great 5 example, USF.6 So we should give ourselves that 7 credit. So that is enough of a validation 8 there, that there is something that happens 9 with our recommendations, but it is not a bad 10 idea for us to do a little bit of a check once 11 in a while with the Commission and say, hey, 12 what is going on with some of our 13 recommendations.14 MR. BARTHOLME: I think we should 15 skip the DTV ones, though.16 CHAIR BERLYN: I think we can skip 17 that, yes, which was the focus of a lot of our 18 work in 2007 to 2009. Yes.19 Okay, we are going to wrap this up 20 in just a minute, but, Ken, you want to have a 21 last comment here?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 182 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes. I was going 1 to say that I think one of the advantages of 2 getting feedback as opposed to just 3 recognition for the recommendations is that, 4 from the feedback, we could find out whether 5 or not they didn't quite understand the 6 recommendations or whether or not there is 7 additional information we can provide.8 So I think it is not just the 9 recognition. I think it is being able to 10 really sort of follow through on the 11 recommendations that we make.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Right. So is there 13 any other final issues, comments. If you 14 haven't gotten an opportunity to speak about 15 your important issue, now is the time to do 16 it. We are going to send off the -- Is that a 17 hand up, or no? That was a sort of hand up. 18 Name and hand up for the mike?19 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker, AARP. We 20 had talked about the FCC website in a number 21 of our different groups, and we are interested 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 183 in having someone from the FCC come talk to 1 us. The speaker earlier this morning 2 addressed the complaints aspect of it, but I 3 can't remember. What is sort of the next 4 steps on that and what we were thinking about?5 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?6 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott 7 Marshall. Yes, we had invited, as it turned 8 out, our Managing Director, David Robbins, to 9 this meeting. Unfortunately, he could not 10 make it, but he did indicate to me on the 11 phone day before yesterday that he would be 12 willing to come to us again or even come to a 13 working group meeting, if you wanted to have 14 an initial discussion so that you could get 15 the ball rolling before the June meeting.16 So I think my suggestion would be 17 give me a couple of dates, and I will get back 18 to him and see if we can facilitate that, if 19 you want to meet at the working group level. 20 Otherwise, we can have him in June, too.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Go ahead.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 184 MR. BAKER: Because June is the 1 next meeting date?2 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. We might as 3 well mention that now. We have identified a 4 date in June, a date. We are keeping our 5 fingers crossed, when this room is available. 6 June is the next time we thought we would 7 meet before we get into the time of the 8 summer, which is always difficult for folks.9 So Scott checked into the 10 availability of the Commission Meeting Room 11 and checked conferences for all the 12 organizations that sit on the CAC. 13 So the available date is June 14 15th, which is a Friday, which we know is 15 usually a little bit easier for folks. So 16 that is the proposed next meeting date for the 17 CAC. Hopefully, it is not hitting during a 18 vacation day for you all, or vacation week. 19 So that is when we are proposing 20 to meet again. I think, in terms of the 21 website and having him speak, it might be a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 185 good idea to pull him into a working group 1 conference call, so that you can make an early 2 determination whether or not he needs to come 3 to talk to the full CAC.4 MR. BAKER: Did we decide which 5 working that was? I know there was some talk 6 about it in the Consumer Group. We have 7 talked about it in the Broadband Group, but I 8 don't know.9 CHAIR BERLYN: I think it is the 10 Consumer Group, I think, is the appropriate 11 working group. But these working groups are 12 open, and so, Ed, if it is okay with you to 13 have the Consumer Working Group handle that 14 issue, but to make sure that folks know; 15 because the website does touch everybody, and 16 others might be interested.17 MR. MARSHALL: I am sure I must 18 have said this at one time or another, but if 19 I didn't, I apologize. Any of you can post a 20 message on our robot mailing list to the 21 entire committee. You can also post a message 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 186 to your own working group of which you are a 1 member, and we also have a leadership group 2 which consists of the chairs of the working 3 groups that meet once a month via phone, and 4 we also have a leadership list as well that5 the leaders can post to.6 So please free to use any of those 7 vehicles to help cross-fertilize, if you will, 8 the work of the various groups and, if there 9 are any other good ways of doing that, I would 10 be happy to help try to facilitate it.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Fernando is going 12 to make a comment. We will make that the last 13 one around the room, and then I do want to 14 check and see if anyone on the phone --15 hopefully, there are folks there -- if anyone 16 on the phone wants to comment. Fernando?17 MR. LAGUARDA: Fernando Laguarda, 18 Time-Warner Cable. This is more of an 19 announcement, but Scott reminded me of the 20 importance of making the announcement.21 The Telecommunications Policy 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 187 Research Conference, which is the leading 1 conference for academic work in the 2 telecommunications space, is having its 40th 3 annual conference at George Mason University 4 this fall. 5 The deadline for submissions of 6 abstracts for papers for the conference is 7 March 31st. I will circulate the information 8 on how to submit, but the website is tprc.org 9 -- tprcweb.com -- sorry. I will circulate 10 that to the group, but I wanted to make the 11 announcement since the deadline will take 12 place before we meet again, but it is an 13 important conference and a great opportunity 14 to submit papers, research papers of interest 15 to the academic community, and I would bring 16 that to your attention. Thanks.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, Fernando. 18 Does anyone on the phone want to offer any 19 comments? We do have someone who is checking 20 Facebook and is supposed to communicate with 21 us.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 188 By the way, if anyone wants to 1 Tweet from here, our hash tag, apparently, is 2 fcclive. We didn't have any this morning, 3 and they are supposed to keep us informed. So 4 we will let you know.5 MR. MARSHALL: We are not planning 6 on interrupting the consideration of the 7 recommendations and your reports back with 8 questions.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Hopefully, we will 10 get people more engaged in this process going 11 forward.12 MR. MARSHALL: The Tweeting and 13 the Facebook is new for us. I think it is 14 pretty new for any of the Advisory Committees, 15 and that is something that will be done with 16 all of the Advisory Committees, as I 17 understand it, and although the existence of 18 this meeting was Tweeted all week, I am sure 19 there are other ways of publicizing that that 20 we need to explore.21 I had a volunteer that was ready 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 189 to give us the questions here in the room 1 today, and he and I will be meeting with our 2 new media team folks to see going forward if 3 we could make it -- stir the pot, if you will, 4 to try to get more public participation via 5 questions.6 CHAIR BERLYN: I think, Scott, 7 probably the best way for us to get the word 8 out -- I don't know how many of you around the 9 room participate in Tweet. I do. Anybody 10 else? Right. So if each of us could do it in 11 the days leading up to the FCC meeting and 12 just say, hey, you know, we have got a 13 meeting, and these are some of the issues we 14 are going to talk about, I think that might 15 stimulate some interest, because we all have 16 followers. I think that is another way to do 17 it. So I will keep that in mind for our next 18 meeting, and I think that will help.19 MR. MARSHALL: And I can put a 20 reminder in the advance materials or something 21 like that, too, or post to the list.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 190 CHAIR BERLYN: So this is a little 1 too early. I didn't think about it, but I 2 think that is a way to generate some interest. 3 Yes, Mitsy? A final comment?4 MS. HERRERA: Yes. I just want to 5 ask quickly, because I did actually send out 6 some Tweets during that meeting. Is the FCC 7 at @fcc or are they at @fcc.gov? Which is 8 their actually Tweet?9 CHAIR BERLYN: I don't know.10 MR. MARSHALL: I'm sorry, but I 11 will let you know.12 CHAIR BERLYN: You didn't pick it 13 up on your --14 MS. HERRERA: I got two. I just 15 thought, if you want to follow or send stuff 16 to them, they have got two listed, and the dot 17 is spelled out. It @fccdotgov.18 CHAIR BERLYN: I don't know.19 MR. MARSHALL: I think I know the 20 answer to that question. I asked that 21 question one time, and I was told that they 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 191 spelled out the dot so that robots couldn't 1 capture and use the data or use the address 2 inappropriately. I think that is the reason. 3 T he address is actually not d-o-t spelled 4 out, but which address is the preferred one, I 5 don't know, but I will let you all know.6 CHAIR BERLYN: We will find out, 7 yes. All right. Thank you all. That was a 8 really excellent discussion. All right. We 9 are going to move along now to our breakout 10 rooms. Scott, we are running a little late. 11 We are going to take the breakout still on the 12 dot of two o'clock. Make sure, if you are not 13 meeting in this room, that you are back in 14 this room on the dot of two o'clock.15 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. USF and 16 Broadband, please, up the stairs, out this 17 door to my right. Make a right, go up the 18 stairs, and turn right, and two rooms, 438, 19 468 are adjoining, and I am told they are 20 unlocked and ready for your use.21 Consumer folks, right down this 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 192 hall past the intersecting corridor, and down 1 in that corridor. It is 402, and I believe 2 that is on the right.3 Disability, of course, is staying 4 here. Again, please speak into the microphone 5 so that we can keep the captioning stream as 6 clear as we can get it.7 CHAIR BERLYN: We will see you all 8 back here at two o'clock. Thanks.9 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 10 went off the record at 1:07 p.m. and resumed 11 at 2:07 p.m.)12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 193 A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N1 2:07 p.m.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome back, 3 everybody. I hope your breakout sessions were 4 productive. I know that we have shaved off a 5 little bit of time to accommodate our morning 6 program but, hopefully, you had some good 7 discussions. We will hear about them shortly.8 We have a couple of items of 9 business to take care of before we get into 10 our reports. First of all, we have a 11 procedural item, and not that we have to 12 readopt three recommendations that we 13 originally passed at our November 4th meeting.14 These recommendations are in your 15 packet on plain paper. They are on white 16 paper, and they relate to funding for Public 17 Broadcasting, the Emergency Alert System, and 18 the Lifeline Program. So you see them in your 19 packet.20 These were passed and, basically, 21 were out there, but just procedurally because 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 194 they didn't get into the Federal Register in a 1 timely fashion, we have to reaffirm them. 2 So I could have a motion to 3 readopt these recommendations, from the floor.4 MR. UMANSKY: I move them the 5 motion.6 CHAIR BERLYN: And second?7 MS. CRESPY: Second.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Any discussion? 9 Fernando? Discussion, Fernando?10 MR. LAGUARDA: Fernando Laguarda, 11 Time-Warner Cable. I think, procedurally, it 12 is fine. I would only want to make sure that 13 the motions as adopted reflect the votes that 14 took place. So I believe there were some No 15 votes and some Abstentions, as reflected in 16 the document. Then I have no problem. While 17 I would vote for these motions, my votes on 18 the individual items would stand as they were 19 when we took them.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent point, 21 Fernando, and Scott assures me that that is 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 195 the case. Lise?1 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin here. So 2 that brings to mind a question. I wasn't here 3 for that meeting. Do you want the votes to 4 reflect exactly what they were in the last 5 session? I just wasn't here. I didn't 6 abstain. I just wasn't here.7 CHAIR BERLYN: It is unnecessary 8 that you abstain from this vote, because you 9 didn't vote on the last vote. It is fine that 10 you vote to affirm these. Any further 11 discussion?12 All those in favor? Any opposed? 13 Abstaining? Okay, thank you all.14 The next item of business is that 15 I would like to send a letter on behalf of the 16 CAC commending Joel Gurin for his outstanding 17 service and commitment to consumers during his 18 time as Bureau Chief of the Consumer and 19 Governmental Affairs Bureau. So that is 20 something that I would like to draft and send 21 on the CAC's behalf.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 196 MR. UMANSKY: I will second that.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. That is 2 my motion, and it has now been seconded. Any 3 discussion? All those in favor, signify by 4 saying Aye. Any opposed? Any abstaining? I 5 love that, two unanimous votes in a row, 6 Scott. Excellent. Great.7 All right. Now we are into our 8 reports, and I am going to call on Barry first 9 for a report of the Media Working Group.10 MR. UMANSKY: Barry Umansky, 11 Digital Policy Institute.12 As was mentioned earlier, we 13 should -- Of course, we checked on what the 14 Commission is doing on various 15 recommendations. We will be following through 16 on EAS and Public Broadcasting. They were 17 just now reaffirmed; also, some of the 18 materials that Traci Morris had been advancing 19 on tribal priorities. We want to keep a close 20 look on that.21 I have talked with her and I have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 197 talked with Steve about some potential new 1 recommendations for the meeting in June.2 Right before we had the breakout 3 sessions, I alluded to something that I 4 personally think, and I have done briefly a 5 consensus that we should have greater focus, I 6 think, as a Consumer Advisory Committee, in 7 urging the FCC and perhaps the Congress as 8 well on the issue of disclosure; because there 9 is nothing that we can do to overturn the 10 Supreme Court. 11 That is not the way it works, but 12 for years the FCC has had the statutory 13 mandate to make sure that people know who is 14 trying to persuade them in television and 15 radio ads. But I think we have got something 16 larger than just over-the-air broadcasting.17 That is why any solution, which I 18 think is long overdue, because we have changed 19 circumstances now. Once or twice, the FCC has 20 pierced the veil and has departed from its 21 standard policy of just looking at who signs 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 198 the check. That kind of covered it in the old 1 days.2 Once or twice, they actually 3 looked to really where the money was coming 4 from when it was so blatant, and these are 5 rules that -- or decisions from about a decade 6 and a half ago.7 We have got new changed 8 circumstances. There has been a petition that 9 has been sitting for about 10 months at the 10 FCC, has yet to go on public notice. Now I 11 don't think we necessarily have to say we 12 embrace every element of this petition that 13 was filed by the Media Access Project, but I 14 think it would be a useful point to start the 15 dialogue on what the FCC could do under 16 existing legislation perhaps to reinterpret 17 through its rules what kind of disclosure is 18 necessary when you have these independent ads.19 Another track -- and as you recall 20 from our last meeting in November, we had 21 gotten the FCC's General Counsel's Office to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 199 concur that, under Section 4(k)(4) of the 1 Communications Act of 1934, the FCC not only 2 has the opportunity but the duty to recommend 3 legislative changes that might better help the 4 agency fulfill its requirements.5 I hope that we can all take a look 6 in the next couple of weeks at the contents of 7 H.R. 4010, which is not just restricted to 8 broadcasting. It would extend to all 9 electronic media, and would deal with 10 disclosure of who really is behind these ads.11 Our next plenary meeting of the 12 group is going to be -- I think June 15th is 13 the new day. We will have ready by June 15th 14 probably a couple of recommendations that deal 15 with this area. In the meantime, I think we 16 will be informally asking the Commission to at 17 least put that one petition on public notice, 18 again sensitive to the issue of burdens of 19 recordkeeping.20 We don't think that they 21 necessarily have to fall on media. We look at 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 200 the precedent that was set in like disclosure 1 of contraindications of prescription drugs. I 2 think the onus should be on the advertiser for 3 full disclosure.4 So that is what is coming. I just 5 want to give you a preview of another area 6 where I think both the Media Working Group and 7 the Broadband group and perhaps others, of the 8 myriad rule makings that will starting up as a 9 result of the spectrum related rider to the 10 extension of the payroll tax cut.11 We will keep a watchful eye on 12 that, and I think that by June probably both 13 working groups will have some recommendations 14 on the FCC's implementation of that 15 Congressional directive. That's it. Any 16 questions? Okay.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Cecilia has a 18 question.19 MS. GARCIA: Cecilia Garcia, 20 Benton Foundation. Barry, I wanted to ask if 21 your group at all about the ongoing22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 201 discussions around online disclosure for 1 broadcasters, the political files, and that 2 kind of thing?3 MR. UMANSKY: That is not the 4 focus of our discussion right now. We are 5 looking at the disclosure itself and not 6 looking at the outlying issue. That is a 7 separate matter. I think, by the time that we 8 meet again, that is probably going to be 9 decided by the FCC. I think the intent is to 10 put it on the March or April agenda.11 Once we see what the Commission 12 has done, then I think that perhaps the 13 dialogue will be a little more focused. 14 One other thing that, I'm sorry, I 15 left out. One thing that we would ask Bobby 16 Baker to do, if we were here, to put together 17 some public notices that would, one, explain 18 to consumers what exactly they are seeing and 19 what they are not seeing, but also to explain 20 to all media, not just broadcasting, not just 21 electronic, that there are consequences of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 202 airing advertising that contains libelous, 1 untrue material.2 The protections the broadcasters 3 have when a candidate is running for office, 4 and a candidate's authorized ad is aired, many 5 Supreme Court cases have said that stations 6 are not liable for the content and not liable 7 for libel. But that doesn't exist. There is 8 no such protections for any media when you 9 have ads by independent groups. That's it.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, Barry. 11 Okay. Now we are going to turn to Cecilia 12 Garcia and the USF Working Group.13 MS. GARCIA: Cecilia Garcia, 14 Benton Foundation. First, I want to thank the 15 USF Working Group for a great breakout 16 session. I think we made some pretty 17 interesting decisions about the work for the 18 next couple of months, moving into the June 19 meeting. 20 The very first thing that we want 21 to report is that we want to change the name 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 203 of the Working Group and drop USF as a title 1 and make it Universal Service, because that 2 certainly includes the Fund, the work of 3 Lifeline and the high cost and the fund 4 itself, but also it allows us to look at 5 affordability, which we think for low income 6 consumers is important. 7 It allows us to take on some 8 things, and we will talk a little bit about 9 that. So that is the first item, and I want 10 to thank the group for pointing that out and 11 kind of rallying around that.12 We will have two calls before the 13 June meeting, at least two calls. We may 14 decide to have a third. Our April call, for 15 the working group I will send around a doodle, 16 so that we can figure out the appropriate 17 time, but what we will take up in our next 18 call will be outreach and education around the 19 Lifeline changes. 20 We think it is very important. As 21 we know, the order really did change things 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 204 considerably, and as Kim told us this morning, 1 this is an area that they really want the CAC 2 to weigh in on. So we are going to take that 3 up in our next meeting.4 What we would like to do, and I 5 will talk to Debra and Scott abut this after 6 our meeting, we would like the FCC staffer who 7 can join us for that call to talk about 8 outreach. We would like them to come prepared 9 to discuss with us what materials are being 10 prepared, what is the timeline, and what 11 process can we create together to ensure our 12 input and to make sure that we can provide 13 some good feedback for them.14 So we can talk about who that 15 person should be and when we can have the 16 call. So that is the very next thing.17 Our May call -- That was our first 18 call. That would be our April call. Then the 19 next call: One of the reasons that we wanted 20 to make the change in the name is so that we 21 can really look at this issue of prison phones 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 205 that Amalia brought up.1 There is a lot of activity going 2 on at the grassroots level around this issue. 3 We are positioned well, we think, to be able 4 to bring these concerns to the FCC so that the 5 FCC then can weigh in. So we would like to do 6 that.7 Another part of that call will be 8 a briefing on the survey that Amalia talked 9 about from Action United on the experiences of 10 low income consumers in Philadelphia around 11 signing up for the Internet Essentials Program 12 for Comcast. So we will get a briefing on 13 that as well during that call.14 I think that's it. That is it for 15 our activities heading into the next meeting. 16 Do you also want me to talk about the 17 recommendation?18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. We will turn 19 to that in a minute. Does anyone from the 20 Universal Service Working Group have anything 21 else to add, any other thoughts?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 206 MS. DELONEY: We love our group.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Great, and yes. 2 Everyone take out one of your two pink pieces 3 of paper in your folder here. It is the 4 recommendation regarding the Remote Areas Fund 5 that you will see. This is the Working Group 6 recommendation that Cecilia is going to now 7 present.8 MS. GARCIA: Basically, this 9 recommendation has two points. The first is 10 to -- What we are asking is that the Remote 11 Areas Fund be structured in such a way that it 12 enables the municipal community and local 13 broadband providers to participate in the 14 fund.15 The reason for that is we believe 16 that community based entities are able to 17 reach deeper within communities. That is 18 really the reason for the first part of this 19 recommendation. It is to acknowledge the work 20 that is done at the community level, and we 21 just feel that there is a lot to be gained, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 207 that a lot of community engagement, true 1 community engagement, and feedback that can 2 happen if this opportunity is made available3 to these entities. So that is the first part.4 The second is an interconnection 5 obligation. Basically, what this part of the 6 recommendation assures is that that last mile 7 of connectivity is assured in rural areas. 8 That is basically the essence of that second 9 recommendation there.10 As we know, in rural areas that 11 last mile is usually the hardest of the 12 connections to make, and this would give the 13 back haul capacity to communities so that they 14 can have that connectivity in an easier 15 fashion. So that is the essence of our 16 recommendation.17 If I have misspoke or if there is 18 something that my colleagues want to add to 19 that, please feel free to raise your hand and 20 add. I want to thank Amalia for helping me 21 understand that second part a little better.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 208 CHAIR BERLYN: Does someone make a 1 motion to move -- Oh, we will have discussion 2 after -- Someone make a motion to move the 3 recommendation?4 MR. McELDOWNEY: I will.5 CHAIR BERLYN: And second?6 MS. MARTINEZ: Second.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Discussion. 8 Questions and discussion? Chris, and then 9 Paul. Chris, raise your hand and identify 10 yourself.11 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker, AARP. A 12 minor point: In the first bullet, you 13 mentioned to assure that consumers have access 14 to the most robust available broadband 15 service. Do we want to put affordable in 16 there? I don't see a mention of affordable.17 MS. GARCIA: Absolutely. That 18 would be fine with me. Sure.19 CHAIR BERLYN: No objections. 20 Paul?21 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 209 American Foundation for the Blind. It 1 shouldn't need to be said, but I think it 2 probably does. I would love to see if we 3 could add something along the lines of "ensure 4 that these groups will do outreach and work 5 with the disability community" or "efforts to 6 ensure that people with disabilities have 7 access," something along those lines. 8 Otherwise, I fear, like the Lifeline 9 discussion, it will be lost in the cracks. 10 MS. GARCIA: Paul, I think that is 11 a wonderful suggestion, and I would appreciate 12 if maybe you could help me with some language13 to insert, and I think that would be good.14 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Perhaps, Paul, if 16 you could draft something in the next half-17 hour or so that you can give to Cecilia, and 18 we will come back to this and vote on it in 19 the next half-hour or so, that would be great.20 Does anyone else have any other 21 comments, edits, questions? Mitsy?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 210 MS. HERRERA: In the second bullet 1 point, the interconnection obligation -- Is 2 that an interconnection obligation to each 3 other?4 MS. GARCIA: The obligation would 5 be on the providers who receive support from 6 the fund.7 MS. HERRERA: They are 8 interconnecting to what?9 MS. GARCIA: It would be to 10 provide the last mile, the connectivity --11 They would be providing the mechanism whereby 12 communities can then make the connection in 13 the last mile, the last two homes and 14 businesses.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Does that answer 16 your question, Mitsy?17 MS. HERRERA: I understand the 18 first bullet point. I am just trying to 19 understand the second one. Are you saying 20 that, where you have other last mile providers 21 that the incumbent has an obligation to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 211 interconnect with them?1 MS. GARCIA: Yes.2 MS. HERRERA: Okay.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Any other 4 questions right now? If not, Cecilia, Paul 5 will work with you on incorporating that 6 language, and we will get back to you after 7 the other working group reports.8 Ed, the Consumer Empowerment 9 Working Group.10 MR. BARTHOLME: Ed Bartholme with 11 Call for Action.12 Since the November meeting, our 13 group had been focusing pretty heavily on the 14 NOI concerning harmonization of the TCPA and 15 TSR rules. We had actually begun to draft a 16 recommendation concerning that, and then I 17 guess the Commission caught wind, and out of 18 fear of our impending recommendation decided 19 to add it to their agenda and preemptively 20 strike on us, so that we couldn't get a 21 recommendation out.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 212 So we decided to table it and wait 1 and see what the outcome of their discussion 2 was concerning this topic. The outcome was in 3 line with what we were going to recommend that 4 they do. So we see that as being a good 5 thing.6 A little bit earlier, we had some 7 further discussion on the topic, and are going 8 to plan to recommend moving forward. We are 9 going to put out a recommendation that both 10 supports the decision that was made, 11 acknowledges that we feel that that was the 12 right way to go with it, but we also feel 13 that, while it is nice to harmonize the rules, 14 what is really lacking here is the enforcement 15 side of things concerning TCPA violations.16 In looking at the complaints that 17 are logged, the TCPA related complaints have 18 grown exponentially over the past few years, 19 and until they actually start to go after the 20 bad actors in this arena, it is not going to 21 stop, and it is not going to change.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 213 So while it is great that this was 1 a very positive outcome in that the rules are 2 now the same, until they actually start to 3 enforce the rules, consumers and end line 4 users are not going to see any real 5 improvement in their situation or their 6 frustration level. 7 So that is what we are going to8 carry forward as the next step, and this is 9 for stuff like the unwanted text messages you 10 get on your phone or marketing calls where it 11 is really not the carrier's fault, and the 12 carrier has very little they can actually do 13 about it. 14 There needs to be enforcement 15 action taken against the initiators, whether 16 it is a robocall company or a marketing firm 17 or whoever is on the back end sending out 18 these blasts of text messages and phone calls. 19 So that is something that we are planning on 20 looking at and having a recommendation for at 21 the June meeting.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 214 We also had been discussing 1 heavily the website. We did look at whether 2 or not it would be wise to make a 3 recommendation concerning the website, and the 4 majority of the group felt that it would be 5 better to hear from someone from the FCC as to 6 what they see as the audience, where they 7 gauge their own progress on the site before we 8 put forth any sort of recommendation.9 That was intended to happen today, 10 but unfortunately, plans didn't jive with 11 that, and it has to be pushed back. So we are 12 going to have a working group phone call at 13 the very least. We discussed the possibility 14 of maybe even having a webinar or some sort of 15 web conference where the person can walk us 16 through different parts of the website, if 17 that is necessary, some us some of the things 18 or show us some future things potentially that 19 they are working on.20 Because that is of interest to so 21 many other groups, aside from just the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 215 Consumer Empowerment Group, I will send out an 1 email to the entire plen, with any notice of 2 when we are going to have that phone call, 3 when that person would be available, and any 4 other information related to that. So please 5 don't think I am Spamming you. I am just 6 trying to keep you in the loop as to what is 7 going on with that.8 Hopefully, we will get some good 9 information and like what we are hearing, and 10 maybe have a recommendation that supports 11 their future endeavors at the next meeting. 12 If not, we would probably be in favor of 13 making a recommendation expressing some 14 concerns with the direction that it has taken 15 or this current state, and maybe offering up 16 some possible improvement suggestions, just 17 depending on how that dialogue goes.18 So that is something else that is 19 on our radar as a working group.20 We also talked a little bit about 21 some of the issues that deal with marketing in 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 216 underserved communities or minority 1 communities where there are certain scams that 2 seem to run rampant through those areas, that 3 prey on language differences and those sorts 4 of things. That might be something we look at 5 as a group moving forward.6 Another thing that we talked about 7 was the possibility of sharing greater 8 consumer input and consumer group feedback 9 with the consumer protection group here at the 10 FCC. We were very encouraged by Bill's 11 comments this morning. We look forward to 12 having him back at a future meeting.13 We briefly dialogued about the 14 possibility of doing something similar to what 15 the FTC does with their Consumer Sentinel 16 where they allow outside groups to provide 17 data into that system of what they are seeing, 18 so that that way there is a greater aggregate 19 total.20 We also talked about maybe having 21 the possibility for more direct dialogue and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 217 interaction between some of the consumer 1 groups with some people here at the Commission 2 as to what we are seeing as problems, and is 3 it unique to us? Is it unique to a certain 4 area or is this something that is on their 5 radar as well, and what, if anything, can we 6 do about that?7 We are not sure if that is best 8 suited for the CAC as a whole or if that 9 should be maybe a separate outreach effort 10 between the Consumer Protection Group and 11 Consumer Empowerment Group here and various 12 members of the plan and other consumer focused 13 organizations out there.14 That's where we are at.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Interesting. 16 Thanks, Ed. Does anyone have any questions 17 for Ed? I would just like to say on the 18 question of the website, because we talked a 19 lot about it on one call that I was on, but I 20 missed, I think, the subsequent conversation.21 There were questions about who was 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 218 having issues with the website. Many of us 1 who use the website are not your typical 2 consumers who are going on the FCC's website. 3 So I think that was one thing that we were 4 sort of grappling with.5 Chris was very helpful in pointing 6 out an article or something that the American 7 Bar Association had written about how the 8 newly designed website was not working, and 9 that raised some concerns. But, of course, 10 the American Bar Association was offering it 11 from the point of view of regulatory attorneys 12 who are using this website to participate in 13 the filing process at the FCC. So that is not 14 whose interests we are representing.15 We are representing consumers who 16 want to participate in the process at the FCC. 17 So we felt like we had to look at this a 18 little bit more closely from the perspective 19 of the consumers who would be getting 20 information, filing complaints, and wanting to 21 participate and get their views heard at the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 219 FCC. So what is the best website for them, 1 and how do you best get information about the 2 FCC.3 One of the questions we had, which 4 we haven't gotten an answer to, is for those 5 of you who use the FCC's new website, it is 6 very interesting that the first thing that you 7 can do is click that little button that says 8 previous fcc.gov. 9 On our call, we discovered that 10 just about all of us do that right away, that 11 we immediately go to the old website and use 12 all of the features that the old website has. 13 I don't know if that is force of habit or it 14 is just more easily laid out. We haven't 15 quite figured that out yet. We wonder how 16 long we are going to still be able to use 17 that, those of us that use that.18 Those are some of the questions 19 that we were grappling with, with the website, 20 and we are anxious to talk to someone at the 21 FCC about that, so that we can start this 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 220 process of trying to figure it out and figure 1 it out for the consumer population that is 2 trying to make the best use of the website.3 MR. BARTHOLME: To tag along with 4 that, some of the stuff we addressed is who is 5 the actual audience of this website.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.7 MR. BARTHOLME: Is it groups like 8 ours who frequently go there and look for 9 proposed rule makings and stuff like that, or 10 is it more of a consumer education/consumer 11 empowerment portal, and does that work better? 12 Are we missing the point, so to speak, on 13 that, because we have the habit of going to 14 where we know where to find things, whereas 15 consumers who come there for the first time, 16 this is the best thing going for them, and we 17 just don't see it that way, because we are 18 kind of looking at it through a different 19 perspective.20 So do they have any sort of 21 research they have done or are they looking at 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 221 focus groups and getting feedback on what they 1 have put out there, and do they know it works 2 and we just don't see it, which could very 3 well be the case.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.5 MR. BARTHOLME: So that is 6 something that we are anxious to hear back 7 from them.8 If I could add, one of the things 9 that I am going to send out to the group is I 10 would like any feedback or concerns that you 11 have with the website. So just, if you could 12 start to look at the new website, not click 13 through to the old website, but spend a little 14 time on the new website and just kind of play 15 around a little bit, and see. 16 Kind of just make some notes about 17 what you think works or what you think doesn't 18 work, and we will try to get a list together 19 so that it is not just a barrage of questions 20 when we finally do get somebody on the phone. 21 We would like to give them a heads up about 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 222 some of the things that we want to address.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. One piece of 2 feedback that you might all look at, too, is 3 how the Consumer Advisory Committee is laid 4 out on the new website as well, because I know 5 some of us who are concerned about how more 6 difficult it is to actually find that on the 7 new website. So that might be helpful.8 If any of you have actual 9 consumers who are kind of new users who might 10 go to the FCC's website and have insight into 11 how it is to use the FCC website for the first 12 time, I think that would really be helpful. 13 That kind of feedback would be great as well.14 Any other questions for Ed? 15 Thanks, Ed. Broadband Working Group. Chris 16 and Mark?17 MR. DEFALCO: Hi. Mark Defalco ad 18 the Appalachian Regional Commission. Since 19 the last time we have met, we have had three 20 or four calls. They have been very lively, a 21 lot of discussion, a lot of good discussion.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 223 It did result in the 1 recommendation from the Working Group to the 2 Committee, and Crystal will go through that, I 3 think, in just a minute. We are still 4 concentrating on broadband adoption. We think 5 that is probably the area where we could best 6 serve the interests of the Commission. 7 I would like to thank Mary Crespy 8 for all the work she did in compiling some 9 lists of all the recommendations coming out of 10 the National Broadband Plan, and then voting 11 that we all put together on trying to 12 highlight areas where we thought would be the 13 most constructive for our attention, and she 14 really put a lot of work into that. So I want 15 to publicly thank her for doing all of that.16 We acknowledge the value that 17 partnership groups have in working toward 18 broadband solutions. With that in mind, going 19 forward, we are going to pursue discussions, 20 hopefully, leading to recommendations for 21 adoption efforts for other at risk groups such 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 224 as older Americans, perhaps some disadvantaged 1 minority groups, areas where we think that 2 perhaps partnerships could be put together to 3 try to assist in the adoption efforts.4 Then we are going to continue to 5 monitor other adoption activities that are 6 currently underway by various groups, and just 7 make sure we have a thorough understanding of 8 what they are doing, how they are doing it, 9 and how it may or may not tie in with other 10 activities that have taken place at the state 11 level or through other government agencies.12 Then we are also going to, I 13 think, pursue some discussions on the use of 14 unlicensed spectrum in working toward 15 broadband spectrum issues. 16 So that is pretty much where we 17 are. I certainly encourage any of the Group 18 members to jump in with thoughts or comments 19 or concerns.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone else on 21 the Broadband Working Group have any input 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 225 into the discussion points? Any questions for 1 Mark before we turn to the recommendations 2 that the Working Group has? Okay, your other 3 pink sheet. Mark or Chris, who is going to 4 present this? Okay, Chris.5 MR. BAKER: Hello. Chris Baker, 6 AARP. We think this recommendation really 7 goes to the heart, the essence, of what the 8 Working Group's responsibilities are, and that 9 National Broadband Plan was a 10-year 10 strategy goal that was approved almost two 11 years ago, and lays out an ambitious plan.12 Part of it was the recognition, 13 understanding, by the FCC that, to be 14 successful, they need to measure the progress 15 and report back to the public on what is 16 happening. They specifically mentioned the 17 broadband.gov website as a good way to do 18 that, and used that very effectively the first 19 year or so of the plan. But this 20 recommendation encourages the FCC to continue 21 to use that and to, as bullet one -- the first 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 226 bullet says, to make plans available year by 1 year of what are the priorities for the FCC's 2 work for that year.3 Then, number two, to track the 4 recommendations. Where are we? How far along 5 are we, and to update frequently so that 6 people know, can follow the progress. Some of 7 this is updated on different parts of the 8 fcc.gov website or in reports that are issued, 9 but having it all in one place on a website 10 named broadband.gov, I think, would help focus 11 attention on it and have people understand 12 what is going on.13 Then finally, as was mentioned in 14 the Broadband Plan, to track the six goals of 15 the plan and see where we are in meeting those 16 would be an important way to understand the 17 success of the plan. Any questions?18 CHAIR BERLYN: Would someone move 19 the recommendation?20 MR. LAGUARDA: So moved.21 CHAIR BERLYN: And second?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 227 MS. GARCIA: Second.1 CHAIR BERLYN: And second. Any 2 questions or discussion on the recommendation? 3 Sounds like you have done a good job, 4 Broadband Working Group. We can move the 5 question.6 All those in favor of the 7 recommendation, signify by saying Aye. Any 8 opposed? Any abstaining? I'm sorry, is that 9 an abstention? I see one abstention. Any10 others? I apologize. Scott, I did forget 11 that people on the phone cannot respond. Is 12 that right? We have to stop?13 MR. MARSHALL: I should check on 14 that other vote, just to make sure that we 15 didn't have any. Well, okay. Let me stop 16 then and ask: On the phone --17 MR. MARSHALL: I'm sorry. Who 18 abstained?19 CHAIR BERLYN: Krista for CTIA 20 abstained.21 MR. MARSHALL: I just wanted to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 228 get that on the record.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Everyone else was a 2 yes, and there were no no votes.3 Is there anyone else on the phone 4 who wishes to cast a vote? 5 MR. LEWIS: This is Clayton. I 6 voted Aye.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Great, thank 8 you. Thanks, Chris, and thanks, Mark.9 All right. Now we have the 10 Disability Working Group report. Lise or 11 Paul?12 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder. I 13 think we drew straws and arm wrestled, and I 14 got tangled into it.15 We talked about a number of 16 topics, and I just want to mention a couple 17 that I think are ones that we are going to 18 continue to work on, just so you are aware of 19 it.20 Actually, a new one that came up 21 today and might even have relevance to others 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 229 in this room -- I don't know, but that was the 1 issue of consumer comment and feedback on rule 2 making at the FCC. The sort of the sum was 3 that it is a rather daunting and legalistic 4 process, particularly for consumers who are 5 not necessarily able to use the resources of 6 an organization in order to put in their 7 comments.8 I think several of the Disability 9 Group members agreed that we would like to see 10 if we can propose models or other ideas, 11 recognizing that the FCC, and particularly the 12 DRO, has worked very hard to try to gather 13 consumer input and to ensure that consumers 14 are heard in rule making, particularly around 15 disability issues, though input on any number 16 of rules would be relevant.17 The point remains that the FCC, 18 perhaps more than most other Federal agencies 19 with which consumers, at least consumers with 20 disabilities, come into contact, is an 21 offputting process, and I think a lot of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 230 people are scared that, when they do submit 1 comments, if they don't have all of the 2 headings and report and orders and rule 3 makings exactly right, that their comments 4 won't be heard and won't be germane.5 So that is something that, I 6 think, we will certainly take a look at and, 7 as I said, it may have relevance even to other 8 groups. I don't know if others have heard 9 similar concerns from consumers about entering 10 into providing feedback on rule making at this 11 agency.12 There is possibly a set of 13 comments to come back on video relay service, 14 not so much -- There is rule making in place 15 now, but we may entertain comments about the 16 structure itself, and so those would be 17 something, if it is deemed relevant by the 18 Work Group over the next few months, we will 19 bring back to consider for June agenda.20 We discussed the clearinghouse on 21 products that has been set up pursuant to the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 231 Communications and Video Accessibility Act, 1 and we didn't have anyone from DRO to address 2 that with us, but we did have a conversation 3 about ways in which we could be providing 4 feedback on the clearinghouse, and also giving 5 guidance on steps that need to be taken.6 There were a number of topics that 7 we did not get to, and there are still some 8 topics on our agenda. I think we are going to 9 have to get back to doing much more work as a 10 Work Group during these interim months before 11 June.12 I will ask Lise if she wants to 13 add anything initially.14 MS. HAMLIN: This is Lise Hamlin. 15 The only other thing that -- I don't know, I 16 think my access is cutting out. I can't hear 17 myself.18 The only other thing I wanted to 19 bring up is that we discussed -- There were 20 some issues related to caption quality and 21 people who are deaf-blind, which goes back to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 232 CVAA. We were -- Actually, when we set up 1 this committee, we were told that we should 2 stay away from CVAA issues, because there are 3 two other advisory bodies that are working on 4 that. But now they are closing. 5 VPAAC is closing up. EAAC is 6 still active, so emergency issues. So I want 7 to bring the question up: Now that VPAAC is 8 closing up, if we can address some of the 9 issues that have been left out or not 10 addressed?11 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott. I 12 believe that was the intention, Lise, that 13 once the statutorily created Advisory 14 Committees ceased, that we could again pick up 15 these issues, as we had done in the past.16 MR. HAMLIN: Thank you, and I 17 think we will probably want to do that then. 18 I would ask any other members of the committee 19 if they have anything to add to what we 20 brought? I think Paul did a great job 21 summarizing it. So thank you, and multi-22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 233 tasking at the same time, and providing more 1 comments. Very impressed.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Anyone have any 3 questions of the Disability Working Group? 4 Ed?5 MR. BARTHOLME: This is not really 6 a question, but kind of a comment, and maybe I 7 am completely making this up. But I thought I 8 remembered when one of the first visits Joel 9 had here and talking about the transition to 10 the new website and new outreach efforts, I 11 thought there was some mention of the fact 12 that they were going to have like Tweeting and 13 discussion posts that they planned on then 14 including in the public record as it pertains 15 to certain things.16 I just wonder if that is another 17 avenue for filing outside of the formal 18 process of -- and the burden and the effort 19 that goes into actually filing a formal 20 comment, if that is another way of 21 participation, and maybe the follow-up 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 234 question to that would be to go back to the 1 Commission and say, how do you guys 2 incorporate tweets and discussion posts into 3 what you do? Do you weigh those the same as 4 you weigh formal comments that are filed, and 5 that sort of thing.6 CHAIR BERLYN: So maybe someone 7 else can help me out here, but I know during 8 the open Internet proceeding, there was a way 9 of just going on that and just writing a 10 comment, a one-line, two-line comment, and it 11 went right into the record, and they got 12 thousands of comments that way.13 So I don't know. Did they do that 14 on every -- Do you know, Scott? Do they do 15 that on every proceeding now or is it just 16 certain proceedings?17 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott. I 18 don't know the answer to that precise question 19 about whether it is available on every 20 proceeding. I do know that the Office of 21 General Counsel did look at this matter and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 235 how it worked with the Administrative 1 Procedure Act, and that when the new blogging 2 system was developed, the whole idea was that 3 people would be able to make comments and that 4 the comments would be incorporated into a 5 particular docket through the website in that 6 fashion.7 Beyond that, I don't know more 8 about it, but we can certainly inquire further 9 and let you know.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Good question, 11 though, really good point. Back to our 12 Universal Service Working Group and Cecilia's 13 recommendation. Do you have new language for 14 us?15 MS. GARCIA: Yes. Thank you to 16 Paul for giving us this language. This would 17 be added -- This sentence would be added to 18 the second paragraph of the recommendation, 19 and the sentence reads: "The CAC further 20 encourages the Commission to ensure that these 21 municipal, community, and local broadband 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 236 providers ensure that their broadband services 1 address the needs of, and are accessible to, 2 people with disabilities."3 CHAIR BERLYN: One more reading. 4 This is at the last sentence of the second 5 paragraph?6 MS. GARCIA: That is correct. 7 "The CAC further encourages the Commission to 8 ensure that these municipal, community, and 9 local broadband providers ensure that their 10 broadband services address the needs of, and 11 are accessible to, people with disabilities."12 CHAIR BERLYN: Someone want to 13 move the amendment?14 MR. SCHROEDER: I will move it.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Second?16 MR. UMANSKY: Second.17 CHAIR BERLYN: And now discussion 18 on the amendment? Hearing no discussion, we 19 now will take a vote on the amendment to the 20 recommendation. All those in favor, say Aye. 21 Any opposed? Any abstaining? Now this is on 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 237 the amendment. This is just on the amendment. 1 I have one abstention, Krista from CTIA.2 Now we need to take a vote on the 3 recommendation itself. So on the 4 recommendation as amendment, all those in 5 favor, signify by saying Aye. Anyone opposed? 6 And abstaining? 7 Now abstaining, Scott, we have 8 Fernando, Time-Warner, Julie, CEA, Steven 9 Pociask, Krista, and Rick. Those are all 10 abstentions. Oh, and T-Mobile. I'm sorry. 11 Two abstentions then, on the amendment and 12 then also T-Mobile on the final. Did I catch 13 all the abstentions?14 MR. MARSHALL: Did we get 15 everybody?16 CHAIR BERLYN: I think so. 17 Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Cecilia.18 So that concludes all of our 19 working group reports and all our 20 recommendations. Thank you, everyone for all 21 your hard work. You all have been meeting 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 238 regularly, and doing great work. So thank you 1 all for all your upcoming plans as well.2 We are now at that point from 3 comments from the public. Is there anyone who 4 has a comment? I don't think we have any 5 tweets to respond to. Is that right, Scott? 6 Well, we are going to work on that for our 7 next meeting. There is one in our packet? 8 There is something in the packet? 9 MR. MARSHALL: It is a comment 10 from someone who emailed me, and it is just 11 for information only.12 CHAIR BERLYN: For information 13 only. Okay. Mitsy?14 MS. HERRERA: Yes, just two quick 15 things. Just on that comment, it does ask for 16 a status update on the AllVid proceeding. Can 17 we get that on the next agenda?18 The other is a sort of 19 housekeeping detail. I notice that, when we 20 schedule the Bureau staff to come, there are 21 relatively small periods, and we have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 239 questions, and we sort of always run late. So 1 maybe we could schedule them for longer 2 periods.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. I think that 4 is a good recommendation. We will work on our 5 scheduling cluster time. Based on today, I 6 think we already have an agenda for June.7 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, I think so.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Sounds like we have 9 already got June's agenda set, and we 10 definitely will see if we can line up Bill 11 Freedman for a one-on-one, because we had so 12 much to talk to him about as well.13 So wrap up --14 MR. MARSHALL: Can I respond to 15 Mitsy's other question about the status issue? 16 I did respond to this consumer, Mitsy -- this 17 is Scott Marshall -- and said that I would try 18 to find out, if I could, any information about 19 this, although usually on matters of timing 20 and when the Commission is going to act on 21 something, that information is pretty much 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 240 made public when it is made public, and I 1 would not have any advance notice of that 2 anymore than anyone else would.3 MS. HERRERA: When I talked 4 earlier about the video issues, that at the 5 NCA meeting last year -- or actually, I take 6 it back. At a year ago January, they sort of 7 had announced this would come out. It is an 8 issue that is a big deal for consumers, 9 because it does address their ability to get 10 around paying for rentals of set-top boxes. 11 So I understand that maybe if 12 there could at least be a status update -- I 13 understand, it is difficult to predict 14 deadlines, but at least sort of where this 15 stands and what are sort of the remaining 16 issues that the Commission is grappling with.17 MR. MARSHALL: I will make the 18 inquiry.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Just in the 20 next couple of minutes, just a couple of 21 announcements. We have a date for our next 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 241 CAC meeting, June 15th. 1 Thank you all. We seem to all --2 Scott, you know it is about one minute to 3 three. So we are at our adjournment time. 4 Somehow we did that. But we will figure out 5 our schedule next time, so we don't cram our 6 speakers so closely together, but I am glad we 7 had time to have some good issue discussions 8 as well as a group.9 I look forward to seeing you again 10 in June, and thanks for all your hard work. 11 Motion to adjourn?12 MR. LAGUARDA: So move.13 MR. McELDOWNEY: Second.14 CHAIR BERLYN: All those in favor? 15 See you in June. Thanks, all.16 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 17 went off the record at 2:59 p.m.)18 19 20 21