NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA + + + + + FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION + + + + + CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING + + + + + FRIDAY, JUNE 15, 2012 + + + + + The Advisory Committee met in the Commission Meeting room, 445 12 th Street, S.W., Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Debra Berlyn, CAC Chairperson, presiding. PRESENT: DEBRA BERLYN, Chairperson CHARLIE ACQUARD, National Association of State Utility Consumer Advocates CHRIS BAKER, AARP ED BARTHOLME, Call for Action ANN BOBECK, National Association of Broadcasters RICK CHESSEN, National Cable and Telecommunications Association MARY CRESPY, Verizon Communications, Inc. MARK DeFALCO, Appalachian Regional Commission CECILIA GARCIA, Benton Foundation LISE HAMLIN, Hearing Loss Association of America MITSUKO HERRERA, Montgomery County, MD, Office of Cable & Broadband Services JULIE KEARNEY, Consumer Electronics Assn. REBECCA LADEW, Speech Communication Assistance by Telephone, Inc. FERNANDO R. LAGUARDA, Time Warner Cable NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 2 LUISA LANCETTI, T-Mobile USA, Inc. IRENE E. LEECH, Consumer Federation of America CLAYTON LEWIS, Coleman Institute for Cognitive Disabilities MIA MARTINEZ, National Asian American Coalition KEN McELDOWNEY, Consumer Action ART NEILL, Utility Consumer's Action Network STEPHEN POCIASK, American Consumer Institute STEPHANIE PODEY, National Cable and Telecommunication Association PAUL SCHROEDER, American Foundation for the Blind CLAUDE STOUT, Deaf and Hard of Hearing Consumer Advocacy Network BARRY UMANSKY, Digital Policy Institute DOROTHY WALT, Helen Keller National Center for Deaf-Blind Youth & Adults OLIVIA WEIN, National Consumer Law Center ALSO PRESENT: AJIT PAI, FCC Commissioner MIGNON CLYBURN, FCC Commissioner JESSICA ROSENWORCEL, FCC Commissioner ROBERT ALDERFER, Incentive Auctions Team, Wireless Telecommunications Bureau JAMES BIRD, Senior Attorney, Head of Transaction Team, Office of General Counsel SHARON BOWERS, Chief Consumer Complaints and Inquiries Division, CGB DEBORAH BRODERSON, Legal Advisor, CGB MICHAEL CAROWITZ, Acting Chief of Staff, CGB ELIZABETH CROCKER, Executive Director, Foundation for Rural Services THOMAS KOUTSKY, Chief Policy Counsel, Connected Nation SCOTT MARSHALL, FCC KRIS MONTEITH, Acting Bureau Chief, FCC MARK STONE, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB KAREN PELTZ STRAUSS, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 3 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S WELCOME/CALL TO ORDER: Debra Berlyn, Chairperson ............ 5 INTRODUCTIONS:............................. 6 NEXT MEETING DATE IN OCTOBER:............. 11 BUREAU UPDATE: Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau Chief .. 13 CRAMMING AND PSAP: Mark Stone, Deputy Bureau Chief ..... 18 DISABILITY ISSUES: Karen Peltz Strauss, D. Bur. Chief .. 23 CONSUMER OUTREACH: Roger Goldblatt, CBG ................ 32 Michael Carowitz, Act. Chief Staff .. 38 QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION:..................... 39 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER J. ROSENWORCEL:... 46 Questions/Comments:....................... 49 FCC INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Debra Berlyn, Chairperson ........... 53 Joyce Dickerson, SC Councilwoman .... 56 Marlin Blizinsky, V. Chair ........ 61 Tom Sloan, Representative KS ........ 62 Ken Fellman, attorney ............... 64 Radhika Karmarkar, NYC .............. 64 CONSUMER COMPLAINT REFORM: Deborah Broderson, CGB ........... 68/91 Sharon Bowers, CCCID ............. 69/89 Questions/Discussion: ........... 93/185 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER M. CLYBURN:....... 79 Questions/Comments:....................... 86 REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER A. PAI:.......... 113 Questions/Comments:...................... 116 BROADBAND ADOPTION: Thomas Koutsky, Connected Nation ... 127 Elizabeth Crocker, FRS ............. 146 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 4 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S BROADBAND ADOPTION (Continued): Cecilia Garcia, Benton Foundation .. 155 Questions/Discussion: .............. 163 SPECTRUM, WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU: Robert Alderfer .................... 196 Questions/Discussion: .............. 210 FCC WEBSITE - DISCUSSION: Debra Berlyn, Chairperson .......... 217 Ed Bartholme ....................... 218 Discussion: ........................ 221 AFTER THE MERGER: WHAT'S FCC'S ROLE?: James Bird, OGC .................... 241 Questions/Discussion: .............. 257 WORKING GROUPS: Disability: Lise Hamlin ........................ 271 Rebecca Ladew ...................... 274 Media: Barry Umansky ...................... 276 Recommendation 1 (EAS): ........... 279 Motion/Vote to Approve: .......... 282 Recommendation 2 (Spectrum): ...... 283 Vote to Refer Back/Hold Off: ..... 313 Consumer: Ed Bartholme ....................... 314 Table Recommendation: ............ 316 Broadband: Mark DeFalco ....................... 317 Recommendation 1: ................. 318 Vote to Accept: ................... 325 SETUP TASK FORCE FOR FCC FEEDBACK:....... 327 ADJOURN: Debra Berlyn, Chairperson .......... 329 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 5 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S1 8:52 a.m.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Good morning, 3 everyone, and welcome to the Consumer Advisory 4 Committee meeting. Thank you all for those of 5 you who got here a little early this morning 6 and we were able to get your coffee. I 7 appreciate that. And we have a very full 8 agenda.9 Once again, Scott has done a 10 fantastic job of pulling together this program. 11 I helped a little and so did some of you, so 12 thank you very much.13 But we do have a really good program 14 and you will see during the course of the day. 15 And we will try and keep as much as we can on 16 schedule, but we do have some special guests 17 joining us this morning, as you will see from 18 the agenda.19 The first thing I would like to do 20 is to go around and introduce ourselves. We 21 have some of you who may be here for the first22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 6 time, if you are substituting for someone else. 1 So let's introduce ourselves.2 I'm Debra Berlyn, Chair of the CAC, 3 and representing the National Consumers League. 4 And let's go around to Barry.5 MR. UMANSKY: Good morning. I'm 6 Barry Umansky of the Digital Policy Institute 7 at Ball State University. And my colleague, 8 Robert Yadon, is here as well.9 MR. POCIASK: And I'm Steve 10 Pociask. I'm with the American Consumer 11 Institute.12 MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme 13 with Call For Action.14 MS. WALT: Good morning, everyone. 15 I'm Dorothy Walt. I'm a Regional 16 Representative for the Helen Keller National 17 Center, the Northwest Region. I'm happy to see 18 everyone this morning.19 MR. LAGUARDA: Good morning. My 20 name is Fernando Laguarda and I'm representing 21 Time-Warner Cable.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 7 MS. BOBECK: Good morning, 1 everyone. I'm Ann Bobeck from the National 2 Association of Broadcasters. And I just want 3 to welcome also our three summer interns who 4 are here. So good morning.5 MS. PODEY: Good morning. I'm 6 Stephanie Podey from NCTA. I'm an alternate 7 for Rick Chessen.8 MS. LANCETTI: Good morning, all. 9 Louis Lancetti here with T-Mobile and also with 10 an intern in the audience, Aveny Bell.11 CHAIR BERLYN: If you all could 12 remember as you go around to wait for the mikes 13 to come on. Thanks.14 MR. BERGMANN: Hi, I'm Scott 15 Bergmann on behalf of CTIA. And we represent 16 global wireless providers and equipment and 17 handset manufacturers and applications 18 developers that bring wireless products to 19 consumers.20 MS. LADEW: Hello. I'm Rebecca 21 Ladew and representing the Speech 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 8 Communications Assistance by Telephone, Inc. 1 I would also like to add a happy Father's Day 2 for all of you who are fathers.3 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin. I'm 4 representing Hearing Loss Association of 5 America.6 MR. STOUT: Hello. Claude Stout 7 and I'm with Deaf and Hard of Hearing Consumer 8 Advocacy Network.9 MS. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Mia 10 Martinez with the National Asian American 11 Coalition.12 MR. DeFALCO: Thank you. Mark 13 DeFalco with the Appalachian Regional 14 Commission.15 MS. CRESPY: Good morning. I'm 16 Mary Crespy with Verizon.17 MS. GARCIA: Good morning Cecilia 18 Garcia with The Benton Foundation.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Did we miss 20 anyone? Ken, did you introduce yourself?21 MR. McELDOWNEY: I didn't because 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 9 I didn't have a name tag. I'm Ken McEldowney 1 from Consumer Action.2 CHAIR BERLYN: And?3 MR. MARSHALL: And I'm Scott 4 Marshall.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Excellent. 6 And we do have some -- do we have anyone now 7 on the telephone?8 MR. LEWIS: Yes. This is Clayton 9 Lewis, Coleman Institute.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Clayton Lewis. 11 Okay. Great. Anyone else?12 MR. NEILL: Hi, this is Art Neill, 13 good morning from the west coast, representing 14 Utility's Action Network.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. And anyone 16 else? Okay. 17 MS. HAMLIN: Could you repeat those 18 two names, because they didn't come across and 19 I could not hear them.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Clayton 21 Lewis is on the line and Art Neill.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 10 Okay. Well, welcome everybody. 1 The first order of business, I would like to 2 thank NCTA for providing our meals this morning. 3 So, Stephanie and Rick Chessen, thank you very 4 much. We appreciate that.5 And our first speaker Kris Monteith, 6 the Bureau Chief, Acting Bureau Chief for 7 Consumer and Governmental Affairs will be down 8 momentarily. So that we will get started 9 shortly.10 Yes, well, Scott, we can do that. 11 And meanwhile, I want to know if anyone has 12 any questions about our program today? As you 13 know, we will be having most of our program 14 sessions this morning and then we do have our 15 working group session meeting right after lunch, 16 soon after lunch. Actually, not right after 17 lunch. And then we have our recommendations 18 that will be discussed after that.19 So hopefully you all will be able 20 to stay. I know Ken has a flight towards the 21 end of the day, but other than that, I hope that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 11 you all will be able to stay for the full program. 1 It is important that we have your full 2 participation for the discussions on the 3 recommendations. We have some very interesting 4 ones today and those are really important.5 Does anyone have any questions? 6 Yes, Lise?7 MS. HAMLIN: Yes, I just had a quick 8 question here. Well, I noticed that it doesn't 9 talk about a next meeting.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Yes, we --11 and it's a very good question and something that 12 I did want to discuss at some point today. So 13 I will discuss that right now.14 We do have a next meeting planned 15 for the month of October. And Scott is working 16 with logistics to find out availability for here 17 in the meeting room. Most likely another 18 Friday, those are the best days to get 19 availability here. And also we traditionally 20 try and make them for Fridays.21 So we are looking at a Friday in 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 12 October for the next meeting. 1 I think some of you may know this, 2 but perhaps not all of you know this, that the 3 CAC has a two-year charter and our charter 4 actually ends in November of this year, which 5 means that October is our last meeting of this 6 Consumer Advisory Committee.7 So Scott and I may talk a little bit 8 more about that later, but that -- you know, 9 it's one of those things where it comes as a 10 bit of a surprise because we actually started 11 with our first meeting the August after we would 12 have officially been chartered. So it gave us 13 just a little bit over a year.14 So we will talk a little bit more 15 about that later.16 I see Kris is here. Perfect timing. 17 We are ready for you. So thank you very much 18 and, Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau Chief. Thank 19 you for joining us.20 MS. MONTEITH: Yes, absolutely. 21 Good morning, everyone. It's great to see you 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 13 here. And we certainly appreciate your coming 1 today and helping the Commission to advance its 2 Consumer Protection and Empowerment agenda.3 Since we last met in February, the 4 Bureau has had a busy time. Lots of things going 5 on and I will just mention a couple of the things 6 that we have been working on at a high level. 7 And I did the smart thing and brought the 8 experts with me who can address them in more 9 depth.10 So in a nutshell, over the course 11 of the last few months, we have released two 12 significant Commission level items on important 13 issues Cramming and PSAP Do-Not-Call and several 14 Bureau-level items on equally important issues, 15 such as TRS and Caller ID.16 We have taken some important steps 17 towards launching the National Deaf Blind 18 Equipment Distribution Program and sought 19 nominations for the second annual Chairman's 20 Award for Advancement and Accessibility.21 We released our Consumer Complaint 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 14 Quarterly Report numbers of the first quarter 1 of 2012 and the second quarter will follow 2 shortly.3 We have exhibited major industry and 4 consumer conferences to educate consumers on 5 key telecom issues. In conjunction with other 6 parts of the Agency, we worked with industry 7 on Consumer Protection issues, such as stolen 8 and lost cell phones to address those issues 9 in a voluntary way and issued new FAQ sheets 10 and guides to educate consumers.11 We have undertaken a number of 12 important listening and consultation sessions 13 with Native Nations and have done a soft launch 14 of our new Native Learning Labs. And we have 15 hosted our fourth state and local webinar.16 These are just a few of the things 17 we have been working on. It has been a very 18 busy few months, a very interesting few months 19 for me personally and professionally and, of 20 course, there are lots of things going on at 21 the Commission outside of CGB, which will be 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 15 a part of your agenda and discussion, we'll touch 1 on a couple of those.2 I know that you have previously 3 talked with Josh Gottheimer, the Chairman Senior 4 Counselor, on a wide range of issues and most5 particularly broadband and the public/private 6 initiatives effort the Commission has going on.7 Today, you will continue the 8 discussion on broadband adoption with outside 9 advocacy organizations and, of course, your own 10 member, The Benton Foundation.11 Broadband availability and adoption 12 is such a critical issue for the country and 13 the Commission, reiterated again with 14 yesterday's executive order, removing barriers 15 to broadband infrastructure deployment on 16 federal lands and buildings and making it easier 17 to deploy high-speed Internet across the 18 country.19 I hope you will share with the 20 Commission your thoughts and recommendations 21 on how we can address these types of barriers 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 16 faced by many communities across the nation.1 The Spectrum is another critical 2 issue facing the country as the Commission looks 3 at ways to make sure that we use this finite 4 resource efficiently and effectively and 5 properly allocate Spectrum among many competing 6 interests. Please, help us ensure that the 7 interests of consumers are not lost in the mix.8 With respect to mergers, we are all 9 very aware that consumers have interests at 10 stake when mergers take place. There is a role 11 for the CAC to play in helping the Commission 12 to monitor merger conditions, which we often 13 impose as these transactions move forward, and 14 I'm happy to see you consider this topic.15 On Universal Service, thank you very 16 much for your extensive recommendations. We 17 know that the Universal Service Working Group 18 is engaged with our outreach team as we begin 19 spreading the word regarding our new Lifeline 20 roles.21 Later this morning, you will be 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 17 hearing from folks in CGB that are working on 1 our consumer complaint process. We are hoping 2 to make changes that will make the process more 3 transparent and consumer-friendly, which will 4 allow us to better utilize the information we 5 receive from consumers in our rulemakings.6 We look forward to your 7 recommendations about this topic, which really 8 encompasses many of CGB's and the Commission's 9 systems and processes, including our telephone 10 IVR system, our website and, of course, the 11 complaint forms themselves.12 Finally, I note that you are 13 addressing other timely issues, including EAS, 14 which has been updated for the first time since 15 the 1960s and the issue of third-party wireless 16 shutdowns.17 In short, it has been busy, lots on 18 our plates. I'll turn it over to Mark and Karen 19 and Roger Goldblatt is also here to address our 20 outreach efforts and we would certainly like 21 your input on some of those issues as well.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 18 Again, we greatly appreciate your 1 sharing your time and your expertise with the 2 Commission. Mark?3 MR. STONE: Good morning. I want 4 to highlight for you two of the major items that 5 our Policy Division has accomplished since you 6 met last February.7 First, I want to discuss the new 8 Rules on Cramming. And second is an NPRM to 9 begin establishing a Do-Not-Call Registry for 10 public safety answering points.11 First, Cramming. I mentioned at 12 your last meeting that the Commission had 13 proposed rules to help consumers avoid Cramming, 14 which is the placement of unauthorized charges 15 on phone bills.16 On April 27 th , the Commission 17 adopted new rules to address Cramming and sought 18 further comment on potential further steps to 19 help consumers. I want to highlight a couple 20 of the things the Commission did.21 First, the Commission required 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 19 landline telephone companies to notify 1 subscribers at the point of sale on each bill 2 and on their websites of the options to block 3 third-party charges from their landline 4 telephone bills, if the carrier offers that 5 option.6 Second, it strengthens the 7 Commission's requirement that third-party 8 charges be separated from the landline telephone 9 company's charges on phone bills.10 And third, it asks whether the 11 Commission should adopt additional protections, 12 such as requiring landline telephone companies 13 to get consumer consent before placing those 14 third-party charges on their telephone bills, 15 if the company already offers to block such 16 charges.17 And fourth, it asked about Cramming 18 for commercial and mobile radio service, such 19 as wireless telephone companies or providers 20 of Voice-Over-Internet-Protocol service. The 21 Commission said it would monitor complaints from 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 20 consumers of these services.1 Comments on the further notice are 2 due June 25 th and reply comments on July 9 th .3 The second major item Kris mentioned 4 that we have been working on is a Do-Not-Call 5 Registry for public safety answering points. 6 The Commission adopted NPRM on this on May 21 st .7 First, a bit of background. A 8 provision of the Middle Class Tax Relief and 9 Job Creation Act of 2012 requires the Commission 10 to initiate within 90 days of enactment a 11 proceeding to create a specialized Do-Not-Call 12 Registry for public safety answering points.13 This provision addresses concerns 14 about the use of automatic dialing equipment 15 or robocalls which can generate large numbers 16 of phone calls in a short time, tie up public 17 safety lines, divert critical responder 18 resources away from emergency services and 19 impede access by the public to emergency 20 services.21 The NPRM initiated a proceeding to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 21 establish a registry that allows PSAPs to 1 register telephone numbers on a PSAP-specific 2 Do-Not-Call List and prohibit the use of 3 automatic dialing equipment to contact those 4 registry numbers.5 The PSAP Registry would build upon 6 the existing protections under the Telephone 7 Consumer Protection Act against the use of auto 8 dialers to contact emergency numbers by 9 precluding operators of automatic dialing 10 equipment from using such equipment to contact 11 any number included on the registry.12 The NPRM seeks comment on the 13 structure and operation of the proposed registry 14 setting forth several proposals. The NPRM asks 15 about the most efficient means of establishing 16 a registry, the process for accessing the 17 registry by operators of that equipment, 18 safeguards to protect numbers in the registry 19 from unauthorized disclosure or dissemination, 20 rules to prohibit the use of automatic dialing 21 equipment to contact numbers on the registry 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 22 and enforcement provisions contained in the Tax 1 Relief Act.2 Among the specific questions the 3 NPRM asked is which PSAP numbers should be 4 included on the registry? Is the FTC's approach 5 to the National Do-Not-Call Registry a useful 6 and effective model for the PSAP Registry? What 7 should be the process for verifying and updating 8 PSAP numbers in the registry?9 How should the registry be made 10 available to operators of automatic dialing 11 equipment? And finally, does the 12 Communications Act and the Middle Class Tax 13 Relief Act give the Commission authority to 14 propose fines for a first violation of the Act's 15 provision or must the Commission first issue 16 a citation to a non-regulated violator as 17 required by the Standard Enforcement Provisions 18 of Section 503 of the Communications Act?19 In closing, I want to thank all of 20 you for your hard work on these key consumer 21 issues. It really does make a difference both 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 23 to CGB and the rest of the Commission. Thanks 1 again.2 MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Hi. I'm Karen 3 Strauss. It's great to see all of you again. 4 I'm going to give you an update on all that 5 we have been doing on the disability issues.6 The first major thing is 7 Internet-based captioning. As many of you 8 know, in January we released rules that are going 9 to require that all television programs shown 10 with captions on TV must contain those captions 11 when moved to the Internet.12 And I believe that I already talked 13 to you about this last time, but just as a quick 14 review, the rules are going to be going into 15 effect beginning this coming September. So I'm 16 not sure you are meeting before then, so I just 17 thought I would remind you of that.18 And that particular set of rules 19 cover pre-recorded programming that is not 20 edited for Internet distribution. Once those 21 programs are shown on TV with captions, when 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 24 they are shown for Internet distribution, they 1 will have to be captioned as of September 30 th .2 March 30, 2013, the rules apply to 3 live and near-live programming. Near-live is 4 programs such as late night programming. And 5 on September 30, 2013, the rules are extended 6 to pre-recorded programming edited for Internet 7 distribution.8 There are different rules that are 9 a little further out for archival programming, 10 that is programming that is already in an 11 Internet distributor's library. After those 12 programs are shown on TV, those distributors 13 have a little bit of extra time.14 That's the first item in CVA. The 15 21 st Century Communications and Video 16 Accessibility Act that I wanted to mention.17 The second item is video 18 description. As you probably know, many of you 19 are already familiar with a lot of this. Our 20 rules on video description are going to go into 21 effect this July. It's very exciting for the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 25 blind and visually impaired community.1 These rules were originally adopted 2 by the Commission in the year 2000 and they were 3 overturned by a Federal Court for lack of 4 authority. In the CVAA Congress instructed the 5 Commission to reinstate the rules. And so these 6 rules are now being reinstated.7 And they will apply to the four 8 National Broadcast Networks, that's ABC, CBS, 9 NBC, FOX, and their affiliates in the top 25 10 markets, as well as the top five cable channels, 11 and that includes USA, Disney, TNT, TBS, 12 Nickelodeon and Nick at Nite.13 The rules are not as comprehensive 14 as our Closed Caption Rules. They require only 15 four hours of primetime or children's 16 programming per week, that is roughly 50 hours 17 per calendar quarter. However, the FCC has 18 additional authority to conduct an inquiry on 19 the benefits, uses and availability and costs 20 of the rules one year after the phase-in and 21 can expand the rules, if necessary.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 26 The next item that I want to mention 1 is the National Deaf/Blind Equipment 2 Distribution Program. That program is also 3 going into effect this July. That program --4 Kris mentioned that program. That program is 5 going to distribute through local entities 6 equipment, telecommunications and advanced 7 communication service equipment to low-income 8 individuals who are deaf/blind.9 They have to meet the Federal 10 Poverty Guideline level that we are using as 11 400 percent of the poverty guideline level will 12 qualify them. They also need to meet a 13 definition set by the statute or actually set 14 by the National Helen Keller Statute.15 These individuals as well can get 16 assessments, training. The program will cover 17 warranties, outreach and all other associated 18 related costs that are reasonable will be 19 covered by the program.20 There will be one program in every 21 state or locality that will be responsible for 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 27 conducting this distribution. We are on the 1 cusp of announcing the certified entities. We 2 had issued a public notice a few months back 3 seeking applications and did a thorough review 4 of those applications to make sure that each 5 entity would be qualified to comply with all 6 of our rules under this program.7 I should mention it's a pilot 8 program. We have authorized it for two to three 9 years, so that we can really figure out how the 10 program needs to work. There are several 11 reporting requirements by these various 12 entities. We are going to be reviewing those 13 very carefully to make sure that the program 14 is meeting the needs of the community that it 15 is intended to serve.16 In all, there will be 53 entities 17 that are certified. We also just recently 18 announced the National Outreach Coordinator. 19 It's the Perkins School for the Blind in 20 conjunction with the Helen Keller National 21 Center and FableVision. They have been awarded 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 28 $500,000 per each year of the pilot program to 1 conduct national outreach.2 So we are set. We are almost set 3 to begin very soon and you will be hearing more 4 about that in some public notices.5 The next thing that I want to mention 6 is the work that we have been doing on Next 7 Generation 911. Many of you are already 8 familiar with some of this, but it has been very, 9 very exciting. We have a Notice of Proposed 10 Rulemaking that has been pending since September 11 on NG911 focused mostly on text to 911.12 Our Emergency Access Advisory 13 Committee that was created under the CVA has 14 been meeting regularly. In 2011, it met monthly 15 per the requirements of the Act. Now, it has 16 been meeting more infrequently, but still 17 meeting. 18 The group produced or the committee 19 produced a survey covering and analyzing, 20 approximately, 3,000 -- well, 10,000 people 21 responded to the survey. 3,000 completed 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 29 surveys by people with disabilities reporting 1 on how they access emergency services.2 And the product of that survey and 3 the product of the committee's report eventually 4 led to a resolution that people with 5 disabilities wanted access to 911 via text. 6 And tremendous progress has been made in that 7 area.8 Since then, Verizon and AT&T have 9 announced that they are going to be piloting 10 Text to 911 programs. And so we are going to 11 be working with these companies in order to make 12 sure that outreach is done and our Consumer 13 Outreach Office will be orchestrating some 14 meetings shortly to coordinate efforts between 15 consumers, industry, PSAPs and other relevant 16 stakeholders.17 Just really quickly, I want to 18 mention that in October we also have to submit 19 to Congress a report on how we have been doing 20 with respect to achieving accessibility of 21 advanced communication services and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 30 telecommunication services. We are also 1 continuing to work on our clearinghouse, our 2 accessibility clearinghouse that provides 3 products and services, information about 4 accessible products and services to the 5 community.6 And we just recently released a 7 public notice seeking comment on our -- the 8 report that we received from our Video 9 Programming Access Advisory Committee on making 10 devices compatible with video description and 11 providing emergency access information or 12 information about emergencies accessible to 13 people with -- who are blind and visually 14 impaired.15 Those are two requirements -- that's 16 emergency information, in this context, I'm 17 talking about is on television. Those are two 18 issues that are dealt with in the video 19 programming section of the CVAA and we are 20 getting comments back and replies are due on 21 June 19 th , because we are going to have to be 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 31 issuing rules on that.1 And I know I have made your brains 2 fried, at this point, so I'm going to stop 3 talking. But you can see that we have a lot 4 to do. I'm going to be back later on for the 5 disability group. Cheryl King is going to be 6 joining you initially and then I'm going to be 7 stepping in a little bit later on. So I can 8 fill you in on more of the details.9 MS. MONTEITH: Thanks very much, 10 Karen. Now, Roger, if you would, please, talk 11 a little bit about some of the consumer outreach 12 issues and, particularly, where we could use 13 some help?14 MR. GOLDBLATT: Okay. Thank you. 15 First of all, I wanted to start with thank you 16 and then I'll end with a request.17 Many of you have been generous 18 enough to invite us to exhibit at your 19 conventions. We did CS and CTA, NAD in the past 20 few months. And I would say you really ran us 21 ragged. I say the two or three people we have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 32 had at the booth had been busy nonstop.1 It so gratifying to have people come 2 to us and say thank you for being here. And 3 they come out and they bring their little ragged 4 list of questions they have for FCC. And then, 5 of course, you always have, no matter where we 6 go for the past 12 years I have been here, the 7 HAM operators that come and want to show their 8 little HAM licenses.9 But outreach is really fascinating 10 here, because FCC has a lot of lawyers and a 11 lot of engineers. I mean, we come out with a 12 lot of great rules and regulations that really 13 help consumers. But if you ask your parents 14 or grandparents or niece or nephews or children 15 or neighbors what some of these words like the 16 viewability, cramming, broadband, Spectrum, 17 eRate, Universal Service, robocalls, billshock, 18 VoIP, LPFM, LPTV, they won't know what you are 19 talking about.20 We have people that come to us and 21 they go, you know, I go into McDonalds and I 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 33 see this little sign, what does that mean? And 1 we say well, that means they have wireless. 2 And they go really? Or they wonder about the 3 QR Code. What does that mean? I say well, you 4 can take your Smartphone and you can get to a 5 website. And they go really?6 So what we try to do, as far as 7 outreach, is to kind of be the bridge, be the 8 conduit and say, okay, FCC does an awful lot 9 to help consumers and we will try to explain 10 to you what it is and what we do.11 And that's why they come with these 12 questions. And we really do an awful lot, 13 because we have groups that come in and we say 14 well, what does FCC mean to you? What do you 15 think FCC does? And I would say 99 to 100 16 percent will say indecency and obscenity. To 17 tell you the truth, that's like, you know, very, 18 very little percent of what we do, but we do 19 an awful lot to help consumers.20 And we try to, because we are a small 21 band of people, concentrate on certain areas. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 34 People with disabilities, people in rural 1 areas, minorities, African-Americans, Asians, 2 non-English-speaking people, Hispanics, very, 3 very important, seniors.4 We find that a lot of seniors are 5 afraid to get onto broadband. It isn't always 6 a financial issue. It's just not knowing what 7 is going on. And I think you have had people 8 talk about our Connect to Compete Program, 9 because it's really important. And we are 10 trying to work pilot programs around the country 11 to get people to understand how important it 12 is to be on the computer.13 We are actually exhibiting next week 14 at the American Library Association, because 15 libraries are so important for people who don't 16 have computers. People who go look for jobs 17 on the computers. People who don't have 18 computers look at their emails. Kids who don't 19 have computers at home do their homework. I 20 mean, so we try to form partnerships.21 And what we try to do also is I think 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 35 we do a decent job, but we could do a heck of 1 a lot better job. You know, we work on 2 distracted driving. I don't know about you, 3 but I don't think we have done enough on that.4 You look and you see how many people 5 are still texting and are talking on the phone 6 while they are driving. You know, that's an 7 FCC issue. Almost for a small Agency, we cut, 8 probably impact everybody in some aspect of 9 their life, whether it be TV, television, 10 computers. You know, there are so many aspects.11 So what we would like to do, you 12 know, like I said, we are the face of the FCC. 13 We go and people ask us questions. FCC like 14 every other Federal Agency has budget cuts. 15 So we try to do the best we can. We are 16 experimenting with technology, ways we can do 17 things from here, but it does help when we are 18 out there and people come to us and they have 19 their questions.20 So if you can help us come up with 21 ideas how can we impact? How can we reach 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 36 people? How can we translate? How can we get 1 the word out to people all over the country?2 We really -- any creative ideas that 3 you have, we are open to. There pretty much 4 are no barriers as far as ideas. We really are 5 so enthusiastic. We really want to get the word 6 out. We love talking to people. We love when 7 they come and they say thank you and by the way, 8 I have a question. And we will try to answer.9 And that's our goal. We are not 10 experts, but we know who the experts are. So 11 to come to us, we get the answer and I think 12 a lot of times they are surprised because like, 13 you know, we are from the Government and we're 14 here to help you and we really are there to help.15 So like I said, I started with thank 16 you for those who have invited us and we have 17 worked with. And I know most of you. I think 18 of all of you as friends and partners. So I 19 guess I want to end with a request.20 Any ideas you have for how we can 21 outreach better, how we can partner better, how 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 37 we can reach a lot of the under-served 1 communities that really need us or need to know 2 a lot of the programs that are available, the 3 Lifeline programs, the eRate programs. There 4 are so many good things the FCC does and we really 5 need your assistance.6 So thank you very much.7 MS. MONTEITH: I would like to 8 introduce my Acting Chief of Staff, the Acting 9 Chief of Staff for CGB, Michael Carowitz.10 MR. CAROWITZ: Hi. I just --11 CHAIR BERLYN: You need the mike.12 MR. CAROWITZ: Thanks. I just 13 wanted to say hello to everybody and let you 14 know that I'm here as a point of contact in the 15 CGB. If there is anything that you need at any 16 point, please, feel free to give me a call. 17 I can point you in the right direction and get 18 you acquainted with the right people.19 And because I'm new, your questions 20 will help me learn my job just a little bit 21 quicker. So thanks.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 38 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Questions?1 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I guess I 2 continue to be very disappointed by the sort 3 of inability of the FCC to free-up money for 4 serious outreach. I really applaud the fact 5 that you want to try to reach low-income 6 consumers. You want to reach the people 7 who--for whom English is not the primary 8 language. But I think that as most of the folks 9 around this table will know, that takes money.10 And putting stuff on a website 11 doesn't do it. Going to National Conference 12 doesn't do it. You have got to work with the 13 actual agencies that are working with consumers 14 on a day-to-day basis.15 And it's just it can -- it has sort 16 of been refrained that I and other people on 17 this Council have been saying for years and years 18 and years. And I have just not seen a serious 19 commitment in that area, whether it is on 20 Lifeline or anything else. There has to be 21 printed materials. There has to be money for 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 39 distribution of them. There has to be money 1 for training. And we are not talking -- you 2 know, I would be happy just to see a few $100,000 3 dollars in terms of commitment by the Commission 4 to actually reach the people that you purport 5 to help.6 And I think that certainly going to 7 conferences and things like that, working at 8 the library is a small first step, but it's a 9 very tiny, tiny, tiny step. And I think you 10 really have to figure out how in a tight budget 11 era to free-up some money for serious outreach 12 with printed materials in different languages.13 You now, Consumer Action does it 14 with a very small budget, smaller than yours. 15 And I think other organizations around the 16 table do as well, as do many of the companies.17 I think the models are out there. 18 I just think that the FCC really has to get 19 serious and step up to the table.20 MS. MONTEITH: I'm happy to hear you 21 say that, Ken, honestly, because I think one 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 40 of the issues as Roger was saying that we really 1 face is in an era of shrinking budgets, is the 2 consumer outreach function -- how is the 3 consumer outreach function viewed?4 And I think that the core group of 5 folks in CGB think it is a mission critical 6 function for the Commission. But we, as 7 Government Agencies, you know, face shrinking 8 budgets. So we would really appreciate your 9 help in -- on that issue to say yes, it is 10 important for the Commission to get out there 11 and actually have a face-to-face conversation 12 with consumers outside of the, you know, 13 proverbial beltway. So I appreciate your 14 comments in that regard.15 MR. McELDOWNEY: Just a quick 16 follow-up to that. I don't think it's necessary 17 for the Commission to get out and talk to 18 individual consumers. Consumer Action uses a 19 Train the Trainer model. We train between 800 20 and 1,000 community group staff a year around 21 the country in terms of how to successfully use 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 41 our materials in the community.1 And the advantage of that is that 2 these are the agencies that work with consumers 3 on a day-to-day basis on a wide range of issues 4 in a wide range of languages. We would go nuts 5 if we wanted to try to reach individual 6 consumers.7 But our 7,000 agencies put over a 8 million pieces of literature a year in the hands 9 of consumers, because they are on the ground. 10 And I think that's something that the 11 Commission has to do is to work with the groups 12 more closely throughout the country. They are 13 actually working with consumers on a day-to-day 14 basis.15 For example, the small foundation 16 grant, we are training about 45 community group 17 staff in San Bernardino in terms of proper use 18 of cell phones with materials that we did for 19 the small, you know, foundation grid. And that 20 has got to reach a huge number of consumers.21 CHAIR BERLYN: If I could, we have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 42 a Commissioner in the room. I see two tent 1 cards up. I will allow one more question. If 2 you could make it very brief and then I'm afraid 3 we will have to move on. We do have someone 4 else we will take, if you don't mind, perhaps 5 just give me your questions and I can forward 6 them on to Kris, so that we don't lose your 7 questions in the course of our discussion today, 8 because I know that your questions are 9 important.10 Irene, you put your question down. 11 I don't know who came up first.12 MS. LEECH: He came up first.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.14 MS. LEECH: That's why I did that.15 CHAIR BERLYN: All right. So make 16 sure that you get your question to me. And go 17 ahead. And if you could make your question a 18 question and brief?19 MS. HERRERA: Yes.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.21 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, Cable 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 43 and Broadband Administrator from Montgomery 1 County Maryland.2 One thing I would just note to you, 3 we have had a recent thing with the Broadband 4 Adoption Program. If you work with local 5 governments or you pick a few larger ones, they 6 can help bring together the people who run 7 programs aimed at low-income clients from HHS 8 or Health and Human Services, the housing 9 people, the schools and you can -- they can help 10 organize meetings for you where you can come 11 out and effectively reach people who are -- to 12 find your target population.13 So you should try to look at some 14 of those local partners in addition with our 15 consumer groups.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.17 MS. WALT: Do you mind if people can 18 identify themselves before they speak?19 CHAIR BERLYN: Absolutely. You 20 should identify yourself. I believe you did.21 MS. HERRERA: I did. But Mitsi 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 44 Herrera, the Cable and Broadband Administrator 1 from Montgomery County Maryland.2 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, I thought 3 you did.4 MS. WALT: Thank you.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.6 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you very 8 much, Kris. I greatly appreciate you coming 9 and speaking with us with your entire team. 10 It has been great. We will make sure if anyone 11 has any other questions, please, forward them 12 to me or to Scott and we will make sure that 13 Kris does get them, so that we don't lose that14 opportunity. So thank you again.15 MS. MONTEITH: Thank you so much.16 CHAIR BERLYN: We will also have 17 someone else from Kris' team here.18 (Applause)19 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. It is my 20 pleasure to call Commissioner Rosenworcel to 21 the table. Right here we have a spot. For 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 45 those of you who don't know our new Commissioner 1 here, I don't know is there anyone in the room 2 who does not know our new Commissioner?3 She was probably in the room several 4 times with her former boss who was outstanding, 5 Commissioner Copps. And she is, I'm sure, going 6 to continue his legacy of strong consumer 7 policies here at the Commission and we are so 8 pleased to have you here today. So welcome.9 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank 10 you. So as Debbie was just saying, it's a not 11 very closely held secret that I am not entirely 12 new to the Agency, though I was just sworn in 13 to office last month. So I'm familiar with this 14 room and many of the people who are sitting here 15 today with a lot of the issues. And at the risk 16 of aging myself, I even remember back in 2000 17 when the Commission first started the Consumer 18 Advisory Committee.19 So the work you do, I know because 20 I have watched it for so many years, is really, 21 really important.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 46 And thinking back on it, I was 1 thinking about what I did between my last tour 2 of duty at the FCC and what I hoped to do in 3 the weeks and months ahead. I spent five years 4 on Capitol Hill and the bulk of that time was 5 spent on the Digital Television transition, the 6 Broadband Data Improvement Act, the 21 st Century 7 Communications and Video Accessibility Act and 8 on Spectrum Auctions.9 And if there is a single thread that 10 connects all of those things, it's how they 11 impact consumers from the DTV transition making 12 sure everyone does not lose access to 13 television, so that they can get not just 14 entertainment, but critical news and 15 information to the Broadband Date Improvement 16 Act, which is about trying to figure out where 17 broadband is and is not in households across 18 this country.19 To also, obviously, the 21 st Century 20 Communications and Video Accessibility Act, 21 which is about making sure that everyone in this 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 47 country, no matter who they are, has access to 1 the great services available in the digital age.2 And then finally, Spectrum 3 Auctions, which seems sort of wonkish and 4 academic, but in the end is not just about making 5 sure there are opportunities for wireless 6 providers to do new and innovative things with 7 Spectrum, but it's about taking those Spectrum 8 resources and pushing them into consumers' 9 hands, so that they can have access to a whole 10 new range of services.11 So that's what I have been doing 12 during the last five years, but now I'm back 13 in the Agency and I'm looking forward to working 14 with all of you trying to figure out what the 15 Agency does well when it comes to consumers and, 16 quite frankly, what the Agency can do better.17 So I'm looking forward to starting 18 a dialogue with everyone here, with the 19 Committee at-large and I just wanted to let you 20 know that my door is always open.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Yes,22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 48 does anyone -- I don't know if anyone has any 1 questions for the Commissioner? This is the 2 honeymoon phase. Julie?3 MS. KEARNEY: I actually -- this is 4 Julie Kearney from the Consumer Electronics 5 Association. I don't have a question. I just 6 have a welcome back. It's great to have you 7 here. And I know you are such an expert on the 8 issues and you have got a great staff.9 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: That's 10 right. I'll make sure you meet Priscilla 11 Argeris, who is part of my staff, and we will 12 be working on wire lineage use, a lot of consumer 13 issues and she should become a familiar name 14 and face to you. She knows a lot already and 15 is going to know more even when she converses 16 with all of you.17 MS. KEARNEY: Great. So nothing 18 except we are thrilled to have you back.19 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Okay. 20 CHAIR BERLYN: And I will add to 21 that, it's a pleasure to -- you know, I should 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 49 have mentioned that you have such an outstanding 1 history on all the issues, but particularly with 2 representing consumers on all these issues.3 So we are so lucky to have you here 4 and so many of us know that that is so true having 5 worked with you not only here, but also on 6 Capitol Hill. So we are very happy to have you.7 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: I have 8 worked extensively with Debbie on the DTV 9 transition. She was really an impressive 10 advocate on behalf of AARP at the time.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.12 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: And so 13 I have a lot of respect for what you have done.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank 15 you. Paul, do you have a --16 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. Paul 17 Schroeder with the American Foundation for --18 do we have this microphone on? Yes, okay, good.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, you're on.20 MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder, 21 American Foundation for the Blind. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 50 Commissioner, good to work with you here as well 1 as having worked with you on the Hill. I do 2 hope that one of the things we always encourage 3 Commissioners to do and some of them do it well, 4 some of them don't, is to remember that it's 5 important to talk about people with disabilities 6 as consumers in communications, not just here 7 and in front of consumer committees, but more 8 important when you are out talking with 9 industry, in particular, because I do think 10 sometimes those issues tend to get forgotten.11 And you have a terrific megaphone 12 to be able to bring people's attention to those 13 issues. And I think, particularly, the issues 14 that relate to consumers with disabilities are 15 often overlooked and forgotten when we are 16 talking about communications policies. 17 So I do hope you will -- I appreciate 18 your shout out to the CVAA. We have worked hard 19 with your office on it at the time and I do hope 20 you will remember to talk about the importance 21 of involving people with disabilities and not 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 51 just in sort of a throw away way, but really 1 in a meaningful way of talking about how 2 communication services that are accessible are 3 better for everyone and, of course, more useful 4 for all consumers.5 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank 6 you. Good points.7 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.8 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: 9 Appreciate it.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much.11 COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank 12 you.13 (Applause)14 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Well, 15 this morning -- am I back on? This morning we 16 are joined, and I hope you will help me by 17 identifying yourselves by raising your hands 18 or standing up, by some members of FCC's 19 Intergovernmental Affairs Committee. And 20 there is -- are you Marlin Blizinsky? No? 21 Okay. Great.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 52 So I wanted to have -- maybe you will 1 have to self-identify yourselves, but I know 2 -- is Joyce Dickerson here? Great. Joyce 3 Dickerson, who is the Chair Commissioner with 4 Richland County Council in South Carolina, so 5 if you could just come on over for a moment?6 And Vice Chair Marlin Blizinsky, are 7 you in the room? Okay. And I'm sorry, are you 8 with the -- there is another gentleman. I'm 9 sorry, you will have to come on over. I don't 10 have your name here, but you are Tom Sloan? 11 Representative Tom Sloan, come on over.12 I just want to give them a couple 13 of minutes to say a few words to our Committee 14 from another committee. Welcome, thank you so 15 much.16 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you so very 17 much.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome.19 MS. DICKERSON: Good morning. And 20 thank you --21 CHAIR BERLYN: Here let me get --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 53 I'm sorry, let me give you the mike.1 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good 2 morning and thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing 3 us to be with you --4 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh and there are 5 other committee members here as well.6 MS. DICKERSON: Yes.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, if you can --8 we've got a seat over here as well.9 MS. DICKERSON: Okay. 10 CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe why don't you 11 introduce yourselves at the mikes --12 MS. DICKERSON: Okay. 13 CHAIR BERLYN: -- if I missed you 14 with my introductions? Did I miss you? I 15 missed you, didn't I?16 MR. FELLMAN: Yes, sorry. Ken 17 Fellman, City Attorney in Cherry Hills Village, 18 Colorado.19 CHAIR BERLYN: And?20 MR. HUCKABA: Andy Huckaba, City 21 Councilman, Lenexa, Kansas.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 54 CHAIR BERLYN: And I'm sorry I 1 didn't give you a proper introduction.2 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: That's 3 fine. I'm Representative Tom Sloan from 4 Kansas.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 6 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good 7 morning, Madam Chair. And thank you for the 8 opportunity and the privilege to be with you 9 this morning. I am Councilwoman Joyce 10 Dickerson from Columbia, South Carolina. And 11 I am very pleased to be here to introduce my 12 group this morning, our committee this morning, 13 the IAC.14 Just to give you a little bit of the 15 background on the IAC, the IAC Advisory 16 Committee was a federal communications 17 appointee, which back in 1997 it was first 18 established the IAC predecessors, which was 19 Local and State Government Advisory Committee. 20 And in July it was changed from its name to 21 the advisory committee to be called the Body 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 55 of the IAC to reflect a greater balance between 1 state, local and tribal governments and so that 2 we would have a better representation across 3 the board.4 The urban and rural representation 5 also as well as the experts, we need some 6 expertise in Homeland Security and rural 7 matters.8 And in November of 2011, the FCC 9 released a public notice announcing the new 10 members of the IAC who will serve for two years 11 from the first scheduled meeting, which was held 12 December 2011.13 While the Commission rules 14 authority of a 15 member committee, the Chairman 15 announced 14 of those and he left one of them 16 vacant and later I was appointed to be Chair 17 of this committee and I am very pleased to serve 18 with such a very, very well level of expertise 19 that I serve with veterans who have been here 20 for a long time and I'm just coming on as a novice 21 and I really, really feel very privileged to 22 NEAL R. 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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 56 have this opportunity to serve.1 As a matter of fact, I am just really 2 pleased and thankful that I believe that both 3 of these committees, both the CAC and the IAC, 4 can compliment each other and I think what we 5 bring to the table will bring a level of 6 expertise, because we will be addressing mostly 7 and mainly the same issues, although from a 8 different perspective.9 And because we are coming from a 10 different perspective, I just believe that as 11 we work together to give and to give the 12 Commission some very good advice on some things 13 that we feel that will better serve the unserved 14 and the under-served to me is very, very 15 important, Madam Chair.16 And I think as we go along working 17 together and sharing information, I think we 18 will be a strong body to make the Commission 19 a more stronger body as we go forward.20 And so with that said, I'm just so 21 excited to be here this morning. And we are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 57 privileged to have the opportunity to come, that 1 you give us this opportunity to come and visit 2 with you this morning, because we feel that the 3 issues that we are addressing are so very 4 important and vital to the community, to our 5 citizens and to those that we serve on a 6 day-to-day basis.7 And from my perspective, as a 8 Council Member, I deal with these issues on a 9 daily basis, because of my constituents. They 10 are always contacting me. Although I serve on 11 an 11 member panel, you would think that I am 12 the only one that is on that Commission, because 13 every time there is an issue, I don't care what 14 jurisdiction it is, they call Councilwoman Joyce 15 Dickerson.16 I'm like don't you -- they have my 17 number on speed dial. And but I think it is 18 a very good thing, because when you have a 19 presence, in my opinion, in your community 20 working with your constituents on a daily basis, 21 having an open ear, I think that's a good thing 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 58 when they know that you have an open door policy 1 that they can always come to and to me that is 2 an asset.3 So with that said, I was going to 4 introduce my Vice Chair to you this morning and 5 let him say a few words, but I have veteran 6 members on this committee who have --7 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Marlin just 8 got here.9 MS. DICKERSON: Oh, okay. Marlin, 10 you are just on time. But I have veterans on 11 this committee who have just been a tremendous 12 asset to me, Ken and Tom, they have me on speed 13 dial as well. And I think it's very good. We 14 have only -- this is our third time meeting, 15 but we have made a bond. We have put together 16 a bond, because we are addressing issues.17 Our committee has five 18 subcommittees of which Ken chairs one, my Vice 19 Chair Marlin is here, he is Vice Chair and chairs 20 our Broadband Adoption. So out of those five 21 subcommittees, we are trying to reach across 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 59 the board to make sure that we address those 1 issues that we can bring to the FCC and making 2 sure that the advice we give and the comments 3 that we make will reflect the committee and make 4 sure that those things are very, very important 5 to the unserved and the under-served.6 I think that's I got involved, 7 because I am so concerned about the unserved 8 and the under-served around the nation. So with 9 that said, if Marlin would like to have a few 10 words, I would like to share -- turn it over 11 to my Vice Chair and if any of the other members 12 would love to say anything, I would love to have 13 them -- would love to introduce them as well.14 Thank you so very much for the 15 privilege, Madam Chair.16 MR. BLIZINSKY: Thank you. Hi, I'm 17 Marlin Blizinsky. I'm from King County, 18 Washington, which is --19 CHAIR BERLYN: Use the mike.20 MR. BLIZINSKY: Is this better? 21 Yes. I'm from King County, Washington, which 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 60 is the county that includes Seattle and Redmond. 1 And I want to thank you for meeting with us.2 We are very interested in many 3 consumer issues as you are and so we wanted to 4 meet with you today to let you know of our 5 interests, but also let you know of our interest 6 in working with you, so that we are not working 7 across purposes and that if we are interested 8 in similar efforts, that we can work together 9 on those efforts and coordinate our activities 10 with you.11 So thank you very much for having 12 us today and we look forward to working with 13 you.14 MS. DICKERSON: And I would like to 15 introduce Tom Sloan, Representative Tom Sloan.16 REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Thank you, 17 Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman. My only 18 comments are that as our Chairwoman indicated, 19 we are comprised of state legislators, local 20 government officials and I would encourage the 21 Members of the other Council and the general 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 61 public not only to look at how we can interact 1 with the FCC, but also how we interact in our 2 home constituencies, and particularly the three 3 state legislators that are on the IAC.4 You know, we all interact very 5 extensively with our Public Utility Commission 6 and a lot of consumer complaints start and end 7 at that level.8 So, you know, speaking for the other 9 two who are not here and, therefore, you know, 10 I can speak for them, you know, we encourage 11 you to, you know, get our contact information 12 and, you know, use our resources, not only in 13 the three states we represent, but all three 14 of us are very active in the professional 15 associations that legislators have, so we can 16 carry messages to other states as well. Thank 17 you.18 MS. DICKERSON: And I also did not 19 -- I would be remiss if I did not introduce Ken. 20 Well, he is probably not a stranger to Debbie.21 MR. FELLMAN: No. I appreciate the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 62 opportunity to be here. Thank you, Madam Chair 1 and Chairwoman Berlyn. I served on the original 2 Government Advisory Committee, the Local and 3 State Government Advisory Committee, so this 4 is my second tour of duty and I'm very pleased 5 with how things are going so far with our 6 relationship with the staff and the 7 Commissioners.8 And this is a new experience for me 9 to have a joint meeting with another FCC Advisory 10 Committee, so I think it is a great opportunity 11 to move the ball forward on the issues that both 12 committees are dealing with. Thank you.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank 14 you all for --15 MS. DICKERSON: I also would like 16 to introduce Radhika Karmarkar.17 MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika 18 Karmarkar. I'm also with New York City.19 CHAIR BERLYN: You need to come to 20 the microphone.21 MS. KARMARKAR: Sorry.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 63 CHAIR BERLYN: There are people in 1 the room who can't hear you.2 MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika 3 Karmarkar. I'm with New York City and I work 4 on franchising and consumer issues related to 5 franchising and regulatory issues in the city. 6 And I'm very happy to be here. I actually 7 worked with the FCC for a decade before I came 8 to New York, so it is really great for me.9 And I have actually spoken to Mitsi 10 earlier, so it's good to meet you Mitsi. And 11 I'm looking forward to coordinating with both 12 groups.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you 14 all.15 MS. DICKERSON: Okay. 16 CHAIR BERLYN: And I do recognize 17 you, Ken, because I can attest to the fact that 18 you were with the original committee, because 19 I came and spoke to you back in the late '90s, 20 I remember, after the Telecom Act Pact passed, 21 so I do recall that.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 64 This is a great opportunity. I'm 1 so glad that you came here today and we do have 2 so much in common that we should look for 3 opportunities to work together. So thank you 4 so much for coming today. And perhaps we can 5 come to one of your gatherings in the future.6 MS. DICKERSON: Yes, Madam Chair, 7 I look forward to that. As a matter of fact, 8 I would think it would be a great thing for, 9 you know, if some time in the very near future, 10 once you work with your organ -- your Committee, 11 and we go forward with our committee, that we 12 look at a joint -- you know, having a joint 13 session if that is possible, because we could 14 share a lot of information.15 And I just can't -- I would also be 16 remiss if I didn't thank my staff here for 17 helping me to coordinate this so very much and 18 I'm so pleased to have them with me. Thank you 19 again. And thank you for having us this 20 morning.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 65 MS. DICKERSON: Thank you.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank 2 you. Deborah? Stay in your seats. We are 3 moving right into our next session group. Thank 4 you. Okay. Everyone stay in your seats. This 5 is an important session we are going to have 6 now talking about the Consumer Complaint Process 7 and some Reform that the FCC is working on and 8 needs our help on.9 Are you all set?10 MS. BRODERSON: Yes, absolutely.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Great. 12 So I would like to introduce Deborah Broderson, 13 Legal Advisor for CGB, and Sharon Bowers, Chief 14 Consumer Complaints and Inquiries Division at 15 CGB. So thank you both for joining us this 16 morning.17 And if everybody is getting a little 18 antsy, we will have a break after this session, 19 but also just to let both of you know, that some 20 time during this session, we will be joined by 21 Commissioner Pai, so we will take a break at 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 66 some point. He is going to be joining us some 1 time between 10:00 and 10:20, so I'll be on the 2 lookout and we will take a, you know, short five 3 minute break during this session and then we 4 will get back to it.5 So everyone stay in your seats for 6 this great session. Thank you both for joining 7 us.8 MS. BRODERSON: Good morning. 9 Thanks for being here. Thank you, Chairman 10 Berlyn and thanks to the IAC as well, Chairman 11 Dickerson and others who are here with us today.12 Sharon and I are very excited. 13 Sharon drove all the way down from Gettysburg 14 this morning. She was so excited she got here 15 at 8:30. So that's how excited we are about 16 Consumer Complaint Reform and to talk to you 17 all about sort of the process that we have been 18 -- it has been underway for a little while, but 19 we are definitely sell and listening mode.20 So we have some, if not direct asks, 21 then some pre-asks for you that will come at 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 67 the end of the presentation. So something to 1 look forward to. Let me see if I can click. 2 Yes.3 And we have a PowerPoint. I assume 4 that people who are attending on the phone have 5 it electronically, so -- but we will talk through 6 everything on the PowerPoint.7 MS. BOWERS: As Deborah said, I 8 drove down from Gettysburg this morning across 9 the Battlefield and it was just a beautiful 10 morning and a beautiful sunrise. I actually 11 saw a couple of deer on the Battlefield, so it 12 was just a nice way to start the day.13 And I appreciate this opportunity 14 to come down and speak with the CAC and Deborah 15 and I look forward to working with this group.16 Just to give you a little bit of 17 background on the Complaints and Inquiry 18 Process, there are several methods in which a 19 consumer can file a complaint or an inquiry with 20 us.21 They can file on-line on Form 2000 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 68 Complaint or 1088. We also have the Slamming 1 Complaint Form and the Indecency Form. They 2 can send it via our website. They could send 3 it in, what we refer to these days, as snail 4 mail or they can fax it in or, in fact, they 5 can phone it in and we can take a complaint over 6 the phone for them.7 CGB has a huge responsibility in 8 tracking the complaints and inquiries and 9 reporting it to our bureaus and offices that 10 help develop our policy to help protect 11 consumers. And we take this very important, 12 which is why we are here today to reach out to 13 the CAC on how we can maybe improve our processes 14 and talk to you about our Complaint Reform.15 We also report by topics on our 16 quarterly report, which can be found on our 17 website. And as I said, the complaint 18 information drives proceedings and we often --19 bureaus often reach out to us and ask for data 20 to help support proceedings.21 MS. BRODERSON: And at times even 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 69 initiate proceedings. I mean, that's one of 1 the exciting things about working with the 2 Consumer Complaints is that it's this direct 3 hotline, literally sometimes, from consumers 4 to tell us what is going on and sometimes we 5 end up spotting trends much -- even more quickly 6 than we could hear about them from lobbyists 7 or consumer advocates, because the consumers 8 are the ones who are directly affected.9 Oops, click. So Sharon mentioned 10 our Quarterly Complaint Report. I put up some 11 statistics from the most recent report, which 12 was the first quarter, January through March. 13 So we break out report down into inquiries and 14 complaints.15 Inquiry is a question from a 16 consumer about FCC policy, about the 17 regulations.18 And a complaint is a request from 19 a consumer to do something. Something happened 20 to me, this company, I'm having a problem with 21 this company, this service provider, can you 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 70 help me?1 So we had almost 18,000 inquiries 2 in the first quarter and almost 90,000 3 complaints in the first quarter from consumers. 4 So that's a lot. You can see our numbers are 5 up 29 percent in inquiries, 32 percent for 6 complaints. So either something really bad is 7 happening out there or we are getting the word 8 out to consumers and we like to think that it's 9 just we are getting word out to consumers and 10 they know that they can come complain to us. 11 Although that, again, is something that we hope12 to work on as well.13 CHAIR BERLYN: A quick question 14 about that. When you track complaints over a 15 year long period, do they go up and down over 16 the year? So you are comparing it to the fourth 17 quarter, but over a year long period, are there 18 quarters where complaints go up and down?19 So if you compared it to the first 20 quarter of 2010, how would they compare to first 21 quarter -- I'm sorry, 2011 compared to 2012? 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 71 Because I remember looking at complaints over 1 a year long and they tend to go up and down. 2 So I'm just wondering how do they track over 3 a year long period of time?4 MS. BOWERS: Well, and that's part 5 of the reason why we want to reach out to the 6 CAC and talk a little bit about our complaint 7 process. Because what we would like to develop 8 is that very type of tracking from year-to-year.9 When we put the quarterly report 10 out, we don't specifically go back and then look 11 up and down like within the month or within that 12 general year.13 But we want to improve how we intake 14 the complaint, so that we can do more of a drill 15 down, so we can see in specific subject matter 16 if there is a change.17 Right now, it's too broad and that's 18 why we want to work on our Complaint Reform and 19 work directly with the bureaus on the subject 20 codes that we use. And we also are going to 21 talk a little bit about this as well, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 72 specializing our team to deal with specific 1 subject matter, so if we did see a spike in a 2 complaint type, we would be able to identify 3 it immediately.4 MS. BRODERSON: Or a drop in a 5 complaint type, which again could be good news 6 and something that the Commission could share 7 like hey, consumers are no longer complaining 8 about this. Maybe it's something the 9 Commission did or that the consumer advocates 10 did that made things better sometimes.11 Again, from the same report, I 12 pulled out our top categories for inquiries and 13 complaints. For cable billing and rates, 14 broadcasting, programming, no surprise. 15 Wireless, licensing information, wireless and 16 wire-line, TCPA complaints, unwanted calls, 17 unwanted faxes and then complaints -- we also 18 separately tracked bundled VoIP complaints.19 Again, cable, satellite, 20 broadcasting, programming and then unwanted 21 calls. It's not surprising that those are the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 73 issues that consumers are concerned about.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, please.2 MS. HERRERA: Hi, Mitsi Herrera, 3 Cable and Broadband Administrator from 4 Montgomery County.5 The last time when Joel was still 6 heading, I think, the Bureau, if I recall right, 7 we had talked to you about in your reports you 8 report the top complaints for that quarter. 9 And that made it difficult to track between 10 quarters. And we had suggested that if you 11 instead reported all categories, then you would 12 have the data that you would be able to track.13 So, one, I wanted to find out whether 14 you had implemented that recommendation or are 15 in the process of doing so?16 And the second is I did want to ask 17 you specifically in the past when people had 18 called about cable service complaints, the 19 Commission had referred them to the local 20 jurisdictions, the local franchising 21 authorities. So are you representing now that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 74 you handle those complaints?1 MS. BOWERS: It's a difficult area. 2 Most of the complaints that we get are from 3 consumers who either have reception type issues 4 through the DTV transition or perhaps they have 5 lost channels.6 And so what we try to do is refer 7 the consumer to the local franchising authority. 8 Now, we have had consumers complain that the 9 local franchising authority hasn't been 10 helpful. They haven't been able to get in 11 contact with them. So we do what we can to 12 advocate on behalf of the consumer.13 To the degree that we can, we try 14 to get the issue resolved, but we are not always 15 successful in that regard. But our first point 16 is to reach out to the local franchising 17 authority to resolve the issue.18 MS. HERRERA: So one is in your 19 reporting, are you tracking or reporting the--20 or maybe -- you are probably not, but it would 21 be helpful is that if you -- I'm not sure where 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 75 they fall within complaints or inquiries where 1 the resolution is largely a referral to another 2 jurisdiction, tracking that would be useful so 3 you could understand the impact on resources.4 The other issues is that there are 5 a minority of states, but it's significant, 6 about 17, who have moved to a state franchising 7 model for cable. And one of the concerns has 8 been that that gutted the resources at the local 9 level to address those complaints.10 It is very hard to move resources 11 into addressing those if we are hiding the 12 problem by not reporting back that in North 13 Dakota we had 950 complaints that we referred 14 back. And in California, we had 25,000 or 15 whatever it may be. 16 So I'm just suggesting to you that 17 doing that, and there are folks in this room 18 from the Intergovernmental Relations Committee 19 and they can sort of be a good liaison for that 20 as well, but it is very difficult if you don't 21 report the data out.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 76 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.1 MS. BRODERSON: Well, and that's 2 something I sat in on the Consumer Complaint 3 Section of the IAC meeting yesterday and that 4 was one of the suggestions that was raised, one 5 of the comments that was made was that 6 strengthening the feedback between the 7 Commission and states would be really helpful. 8 So I think that's something that definitely 9 is on our radar.10 CHAIR BERLYN: So we are going to 11 take a quick break from our presentation. Am 12 I on? Okay. Because we are so fortunate to 13 have Commissioner Clyburn with us this morning. 14 And I will get right back or we will get right 15 back to your great presentation. So sorry. 16 Thank you for being so flexible here.17 Thank you, Commissioner Clyburn, 18 for joining us this morning. You have been so 19 kind to come and address us before and we are 20 thrilled to have you here this morning. So 21 thank you.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 77 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you so 1 much for being kind to taking a pause. I know 2 you are all very busy and I want to thank you 3 for your willingness to serve and taking the 4 time to be here. Once again, I always have to 5 extend my heartfelt gratitude to Debbie Berlyn, 6 who is one of my favorite people on the planet, 7 but other than that, I want to thank her for 8 her stewardship for this -- for chairing this 9 critically important Committee.10 I also wish to thank, and she may 11 be in the room, but if not, please, allow --12 tell her that I did, Kris Monteith that all of 13 the superstars in the Consumer and Government 14 Affairs Bureau who are on the front lines 15 engaging with the public about what we are doing 16 right and yes, what we are doing wrong. And 17 where and if our industry friends may be falling 18 short.19 Speaking of friends, I am pleased 20 to count Karen Peltz Strauss as one of them. 21 Her voice is invaluable here at the FCC and those 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 78 long hours and hard work on the implementation 1 or CVAA have been a major win for the disability 2 community and for us all. So thank you so very 3 much.4 The implementation of the 5 Communications and video Accessibility Act is 6 a high priority for both the Commission and my 7 office. It is essential that more than 54 8 million Americans who are living with 9 disabilities have the same level of access to 10 advanced communication services as other 11 Americans.12 To that end, there are two 13 initiatives that come into effect next month 14 that I'm especially pleased to highlight this 15 morning. Starting July 1 st , as you know, the 16 big four broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, FOX and 17 NBC, as well as the top five rated cable networks 18 will be required to provide audio descriptions 19 of some of their popular programming for blind 20 or sight-impaired viewers.21 This technology can be described as 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 79 a sort of narration that will accompany the 1 pre-recorded dialogue and it will illustrate 2 on-screen action for popular comedies, dramas 3 and children's programming.4 These regulations may escalate over 5 time in terms of the number of required stations 6 and hours.7 Also set to launch next month is the 8 National Deaf/Blind Equipment Distribution 9 Program. This program provides up to $10 10 million per year for the local distribution of 11 communications equipment to low-income 12 individuals who are deaf/blind.13 The first phase of this program 14 national outreach will begin next month and will 15 be conducted by the Perkins School for the Blind 16 in partnership with the Helen Keller National 17 Center for deaf/blind youths and adults and 18 FableVision, Inc.19 Both Perkins and the Helen Keller 20 National Center are doing a great job to serve 21 the needs of millions of Americans who live with 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 80 disabilities and will get the information about 1 this program out to consumers and service 2 providers.3 These are two solid ways that the 4 Commission is working to address the 5 communications needs of the community and I have 6 no doubt that the Committee will come up with 7 many more creative ways for the FCC to do more.8 We have been busy in other areas as 9 well. The Commission adopted reforms to the 10 Universal Service Fund, you might have heard 11 about that, updating the fund to meet modern-day 12 realities and putting it on a more sustainable 13 path going forward.14 Mobile service uses has exploded and 15 broadband access is a key gateway by which many 16 Americans obtain critical information and 17 services.18 So the Universal Service Fund needed 19 to be updated to reflect these current 20 realities. The reforms we adopted this past 21 October will promote significant broadband 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 81 deployment to millions of unserved consumers 1 over the next six years.2 What is most important to me is that 3 our reform carefully balances the need for 4 certainty and predictability for carriers by 5 avoiding flash cuts and providing transition 6 so carriers may adjust to the changes.7 It is no secret that I have a deep 8 connection to rural America and I believe that 9 these reforms will allow us to come even closer 10 to achieving Congress' goal of providing all 11 Americans access to affordable voice and 12 advanced communication services.13 I recognize, however, that current 14 efforts to modernize the fund may not resolve 15 all of the issues that were raised in the 16 proceeding. So this Agency continues to work 17 very hard to hear everyone's concerns and 18 address them in a timely fashion.19 At all times, we have had an open 20 door policy and we have worked diligently 21 towards resolutions that benefits consumers and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 82 help us achieve our Universal Service goals.1 I wish to mention one final thing. 2 This April, the Commission adopted rules to 3 protect Americans from telephone Cramming. 4 Many consumers fail to realize when there are 5 unauthorized charges on their bills, so these 6 charges often go undetected for months or even 7 years.8 Our new rules strengthen the 9 Commission's disclosure requirements on 10 telephone companies, so that consumers will have 11 an easier time spotting Crammers. This is an 12 ongoing process, however, and much more can be 13 done to protect consumers.14 If there are any additional ways to 15 empower consumers to prevent Cramming, we want 16 to hear about them. So the comment period in 17 this proceeding will remain open until June 25 th . 18 And I encourage you and all others interested 19 to participate.20 So, Debbie and the Committee, thank 21 you once again for your unselfish commitment 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 83 to public service. And I am grateful to be a 1 partner and remaining engaged with you as we 2 make this communications and media marketplace 3 more inclusive.4 Thank you so very much.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank 6 you very much. We have time for a question. 7 Yes?8 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Hello. 9 Good morning.10 MS. WALT: Dorothy Walt speaking 11 from the Helen Keller National Center. I would 12 like to applaud FCC for all of the efforts on 13 behalf of people with disabilities.14 I'm curious as many of the things 15 are happening right now are doing work with some 16 of the people with some specific kinds of 17 disability, but I know that a lot of these things 18 that are happening does not have anything 19 available for people who are hard of hearing, 20 deaf and very low vision.21 Don't we -- cannot benefit from 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 84 interpreting services. Many of the senior 1 citizens and many other people who are deaf/ 2 blind, who are low vision and deaf or hard of 3 hearing, put large captions when you talk about 4 TV programs being captioned, where they will 5 be able to have the capability of making them 6 large print, so that people can read them.7 Those kinds of things have not been 8 addressed, not that I know of. Maybe I missed 9 it. I just wanted to bring this up for 10 everyone's attention. Thank you very much.11 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: I 12 appreciate you so much. Very nice to meet you, 13 number one. I appreciate so much you affirming 14 some of the challenges. And in terms of the 15 communities in which their might be multiple 16 challenges, I assure you that there is more 17 enhanced attention. I think I mentioned it a 18 few moments ago, again, to those challenges and 19 we are constantly engaged and are being more 20 affirmative in that end.21 So I think you will see over the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 85 coming months and years that what you might --1 what have been disconnects to that end, I think 2 you will be increasingly pleased over the next 3 few months that those issues with person with, 4 again, more enhanced challenges will be 5 addressed.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone on the 7 phone have a question? Okay. Thank you very 8 much, Commissioner Clyburn.9 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you. 10 I appreciate it.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you for 12 coming.13 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: And I 14 appreciate your engagement and your willingness 15 to work with us and both challenge us on the 16 issues we all care about.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you very much.18 COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.19 (Applause)20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you. 21 Deborah and Sharon, so back to your 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 86 presentation.1 MS. BRODERSON: Thank you very 2 much. Okay. I just wanted to follow-up. I 3 don't think we answered both parts of the last 4 question about the discussions that had happened 5 about releasing all of the complaint categories.6 I think that is discussions that had 7 happened about releasing all of the complaint 8 categories. I think that is something that 9 might have left -- I think that's something that 10 Joel was invested in. Joel left the Bureau and 11 I think it might have dropped off our radar, 12 so it's something that we will bring back and 13 talk to Kris about, because I know it's not 14 something that have been in discussions lately, 15 so I appreciate you bringing that back up to 16 our attention.17 MS. BOWERS: As we start our process 18 of reviewing the Complaint and Inquiry Reform, 19 some of the objectives that we are trying to 20 overcome is we want to improve our Consumer Web 21 Interface. And if you are familiar with our 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 87 website, you can click on the tool bar in front 1 and you can comment or you can complain.2 Once you click on complain, it takes 3 you to two navigation screens that depending 4 on how a consumer answers a specific question, 5 it leads them to a series of forms.6 Now, Deborah and I have been here 7 a long time and we know how to complain about 8 things, because we have been here a long time. 9 But how does the average consumer complain?10 I make it a personal note to check 11 my wireless bill every month to make sure there 12 is no Cramming on there, that they are not 13 charging me the .99 cent data charge. And how 14 do consumers complain? How do we educate them 15 and how do we get that complaint data captured 16 and going in the right direction?17 So we want to look at how we intake 18 the data. We also want to ensure consistency. 19 We have -- I have a group of staff in Gettysburg, 20 Pennsylvania, 30 CAMS, Consumer Advocacy and 21 Mediation Specialist, and then I have a group 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 88 here in D.C.1 And one of the challenges that we 2 have is a lot of the complaints are subjective. 3 And Deborah and I could code a complaint. She 4 could code it one way and I could code it another.5 So a way that we have looked at this 6 is to reach out to this group and ask you how 7 consumers are complaining. What terms mean 8 something to a consumer and then to specialize 9 our staff into that specific subject matter, 10 so that we can catch some of these spikes.11 This will also help us improve the 12 accuracy of our coding and of the data that is13 coming through and help us to better enhance 14 the information that we provide to the bureaus 15 for regulatory activities.16 MS. BRODERSON: I think Sharon 17 already mentioned some of the challenges that 18 we face. And you can probably imagine some of 19 them as well, if you have ever filed a complaint 20 with us. Maybe you have some other challenges 21 you would like to bring to our attention.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 89 A complaint that we hear fairly 1 often is that the Consumer Interface can be kind 2 of complicated or maybe you know exactly what3 you want and you have a pretty sophisticated 4 understanding of what you are complaining about, 5 but that category isn't really on our website. 6 And, you know, that's something that we are 7 working on.8 As anyone who works in telecom 9 knows, the issues change overnight. New 10 technologies develop. You can't always update 11 our website in time to capture new issues. So 12 that's something we are definitely working on 13 ways to make the complaint categories general 14 enough to capture everything, but specific 15 enough that it helps us, because if everyone 16 just files a complaint, then we have to read 17 all of them manually.18 And also, we know that we tend --19 we can use jargons. Sometimes the terminology 20 doesn't make any sense. I mean, wire-line makes 21 sense to us. I don't know how much sense it 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 90 makes to a lot of consumers. So that's a 1 struggle.2 MS. KARMARKAR: On the coding issue 3 that you were just raising? Oh, sorry, Radhika 4 Karmarkar from New York City. And I just was 5 on the coding issue that Sharon was raising.6 One thing that I know we are trying 7 to figure out is that we do get complaints about 8 sort of broadband or triple play and we are 9 trying to figure out how much of those things 10 are kind of falling through the cracks because 11 of sort of uncertainty in that area.12 And it would be useful to get a feel 13 of when those issues come into -- I noticed that 14 the category was sort of broadband/VoIP, but 15 what is the question? Is it a billing question? 16 Are they confused about what plan they signed 17 up for? Is it a service question? The Internet 18 is going out too frequently or it is not at the 19 -- I mean, I know there are separate things being 20 done at the FCC on speeds and so on, but just 21 that type.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 91 And then I would also reiterate with 1 Mitsi that just the regional or the 2 state-by-state or whatever area breakdowns.3 MS. BOWERS: Great. Good points, 4 good points.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott has a 6 question.7 MR. BERGMANN: Actually, I wanted 8 to thank you guys. We are really pleased that 9 you all are taking a look at these issues and 10 the coding questions as well, too. We are 11 certainly --12 CHAIR BERLYN: Identify yourself.13 MR. BERGMANN: Oh, thanks, Deb. 14 Scott Bergmann with CTIA. I just wanted to say 15 thank you to you all for undertaking this review 16 of how the complaints come in, how they are 17 coded. We are very interested in that as well, 18 too, because, you know, we are interested in 19 feedback.20 And, you know, one of the things I 21 noticed is that when you put up the top 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 92 complaints, the one for wireless was TCPA. And 1 so that's always very much of interest to our 2 industry, because, interestingly enough, those 3 complaints are really about unwanted calls and 4 tax from third-party marketers as opposed to 5 from wireless providers.6 So when you look at complaint in the 7 mobile space, that is by far the greatest area 8 of complaints. So having some additional 9 visibility into, you know, where customers are 10 actually having problems, I think, would 11 probably help the Commission in its policy 12 making efforts and in its enforcement efforts 13 to sort of know where to focus its resources.14 So thank you guys for that and we 15 are happy to engage with you and help try to 16 be partners in that effort.17 MS. BRODERSON: Well, and I think 18 there are different models for transparency in 19 our consumer reports, our quarterly reports. 20 And I think just the kind of data analysis that 21 we are hoping to increase, it sounds like would 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 93 be of help to almost everyone in the room and 1 I think to the Commission as well, so that's 2 definitely something that we would love to work 3 towards.4 MS. BOWERS: Some internal 5 solutions that we have been looking at is to, 6 first, start coordinating with the bureaus. 7 I mean, we have our contacts with the bureaus, 8 but a really in depth look at what are the bureaus 9 needing to support their policy?10 Review our category codes. As 11 Deborah had said earlier, some of our codes are 12 redundant. Some of them are legacy codes that 13 have been around for quite some time. And, as 14 we know, as wireless -- as the technology 15 advances, we are behind the times a bit.16 So to review those category codes:17 Redrafting the codes to ensure that 18 they are accurate, they are clear, clear to us 19 and clear to the consumer when they go to file 20 that complaint on-line.21 Ensure that our CAMS, Consumer 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 94 Advocacy and Mediation Specialist, have the 1 latest consumer guides that will coordinate with 2 the codes and the rest of what the FCC is doing, 3 so we are all speaking from one page.4 And increasing the analysis of the 5 data.6 And back to your question, we also 7 have subcategories of codes. So we probably 8 need to take a look at the subcats to make sure 9 that they make sense for how the codes are 10 captured to drill down to the billing or the 11 service issues as it relates to broadband or, 12 you know, other issues.13 MS. BRODERSON: And one of the 14 challenges that we didn't mention, but again 15 that I think would be pretty obvious in this 16 room, is that consumers just don't always know 17 what their problem is, so, you know, Consumer 18 Complaint Reform only makes sense if you are 19 also reforming consumer education and that's 20 why we want to coordinate every time a new 21 consumer facing item come out of the Commission, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 95 we want to make sure that we have a consumer 1 guide ready to go, that we have the CAMS educated 2 to take calls, that we have our website updated, 3 so it's all part of the same process.4 So this is the part where -- yes, 5 this is the part for you guys. And I think we 6 will be talking and working more with your 7 Chairperson on --8 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken has a question.9 MS. BRODERSON: Oh, please.10 MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. Before we got 11 --12 CHAIR BERLYN: No, identify 13 yourself first.14 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Yes, 15 sorry. Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action. 16 Before we get to the codes and the fun stuff, 17 I guess I had a couple of questions.18 One is that do you track the 19 complaints by language?20 MS. BRODERSON: That's a good 21 question. No.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 96 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. That's--1 MS. BRODERSON: You mean, by 2 English, Spanish?3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes.4 MS. BRODERSON: Oh, what do we take 5 -- we intake in English and Spanish. Is that 6 right, Sharon?7 MS. BOWERS: Yes, we do. We do 8 intake English and Spanish and sign language.9 MR. McELDOWNEY: No. I guess my 10 question goes to -- what? Yes, my question goes 11 beyond that.12 Certainly, I -- you know, I'm with 13 Consumer Action and we handle complaints in 14 English, Spanish, Cantonese and Mandarin. But 15 more importantly, I think we track the 16 complaints by language. And I think if you are 17 not tracking complaints by language, you are 18 going to end up not knowing at all in terms of 19 whether or not you are adequately reaching those 20 populations.21 So, for example, we had a very major 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 97 cell phone scam that was being pushed in the 1 San Francisco/Chinatown and also in the 2 Vietnamese in San Jose. You know, you can't 3 get that information unless not only do you 4 handle information in those languages, but also 5 track them by a language.6 The second thing is the you -- on 7 your website is the complaint form available 8 in Spanish?9 MS. BRODERSON: Yes, it is.10 MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Good.11 MS. BOWERS: Those are good 12 suggestions.13 MS. BRODERSON: And we do translate 14 our consumer guides. They are all translated. 15 They are all available in English and 16 translated into Spanish. And some of the most 17 consumer-specific guides, we translate into 18 other languages. So we have for the Digital 19 Television transition, we had I don't know how 20 many languages, 10? I don't know. I had a big 21 sheet of them, I know I remember.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 98 So but I think that's an excellent 1 point for the interim discussion.2 All right. So we were at the fun 3 stuff. I think we will be working with your 4 Chairperson on the sort of specifics of this. 5 We wanted to highlight the things that we think 6 the CAC would be really helpful for. And we 7 also have sort of general suggestions to throw 8 out to the IAC as well, so for those of you in 9 the room.10 So we mentioned our Complaint Codes. 11 We have codes when consumers call in, the CAMS 12 categorize the complaints and the inquiries. 13 A lot of them are so specific, so technical that 14 the chance that a consumer is going to call up 15 and complain about this is very slim.16 So we would really like to think of 17 -- to present brainstorms a key word. You are 18 a consumer and you have this kind of problem, 19 give you a description of the problem. How 20 would you describe it? What kind of words would 21 you use? That would be really helpful.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 99 It seems like something we should 1 be able to do, but we just haven't really done 2 that well on that.3 Also, testing our on-line complaint 4 system. I know some of you have already 5 mentioned this and I heard in the IAC yesterday 6 about our on-line system. And I hear from 7 friends, you know, my aunt wanted to file a 8 complaint about something and she couldn't 9 figure out how to do it on your website. 10 So practice filing a complaint up 11 to the point where you actually file a complaint, 12 ideally. You know, are our forms clear? Do 13 you have extra information and there is nowhere 14 to put it? Are you just not able to find the 15 right category? Should we have a more generic 16 category? Would that be helpful?17 All of -- those are the kinds of sort 18 of beta testing issues that we would love the 19 CACs help with.20 And the IVR, Sharon, do you want to 21 talk about the IVR?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 100 MS. BOWERS: Yes. The IVR is the 1 voice that you hear when you call 888-CALL-FCC. 2 You might hear my voice. You might hear a CAMS 3 that works for me, their voice. You might hear 4 Deborah's voice. We are not really sure whose 5 voice is all through the IVR, that's our point. 6 We need help with the content on the IVR and 7 the quality of the IVR.8 And we just recently moved our 9 Gettysburg office to VoIP and we have some 10 enhancements that we can make to the IVR, but 11 we would like to know what makes sense to a 12 consumer.13 And we have all called IVRs. We 14 have all had experiences good or bad. And we 15 would like to know what suggestions you might 16 have. And what we are looking at is, first of 17 all, some times the IVR doesn't help. You 18 really do need to speak to someone. And we are 19 ready to speak to consumers who need our 20 assistance, but then there is times that you--21 we are all busy. You don't really need to speak 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 101 with someone, you just need an address.1 But we would like to know how easy 2 is it to get to a person? We would also like 3 to know if the options make sense on our IVR? 4 Are they clear? Are you pushing the right 5 button and getting to where you think you need 6 to be to get the question answered?7 We also have the Universal Licensing 8 System, which handles all of our licensing 9 questions. So many times folks who have a 10 licensing question end up in our shop and our 11 stuff ends up in their shop. And we would like 12 to know how we can better communicate that to 13 consumers.14 Is the language plain? Again, no 15 industry terms. Is it -- are we really advising 16 folks properly on how to get to where they need 17 to be to get their question answered. Of 18 course, our voice recordings, a lot of the 19 records are dubs. We really don't have a 20 professional voice. I'm about as professional 21 as it comes, so that's scary.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 102 But, you know, it's dub overs and 1 retakes and, you know, let us know where we need 2 to make some real improvements there.3 And then if we had money, I don't 4 know, Kris, do we have money? If we had money 5 to make some changes to our IVR, what one thing 6 could we do that would really be meaningful to 7 a consumer contacting -- calling through our 8 IVR? Would it be a touch pad where they could 9 check on the status of a complaint? Would it 10 be an interactive voice where they actually talk 11 through and it leads them through?12 What technology could we put on the 13 IVR that would really be meaningful and be 14 helpful? So that's what we are looking at for 15 IVR projects.16 MS. BRODERSON: And I know we are 17 almost out of time. For the IAC, for those of 18 you in the room, I think sitting in your consumer 19 complaint session yesterday, what struck me was 20 that the -- we could definitely improve the path 21 for communication between the Commission and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 103 the states, local governments, local entities, 1 especially the referral process which came up 2 again today.3 So I think that working with us to 4 determine best practices for that kind of 5 improving that communication enhancing, 6 reporting back to the states on complaints on 7 a state-by-state basis, definitely is something 8 that we would love to talk to the IAC.9 And to the extent that the CAC has 10 input in that as well, absolutely. So I think 11 that's our presentation. I think we have had 12 -- if we have time for questions, I would defer.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes, we 14 will start with questions. We anticipate 15 Commissioner Pai's arrival, but we have some 16 time for questions. So if you could -- oh, i 17 see numerous. Oh, everybody has been busy 18 raising cards. And, Paul, put your card up. 19 Don't just -- yes. So all right. I'll remember 20 that you are putting your card up. I'll try 21 and remember that.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 104 I have no idea what order people did 1 this in, so I'm just going to start on this side 2 of the room. Mary, then Paul, because I just 3 saw Paul's go up, so Mary, then Paul and then 4 I'll continue down around the room. So Mary?5 MS. CRESPY: Hi. I'm Mary Crespy 6 with Verizon. It's good to see you, Sharon.7 MS. BOWERS: Good to see you.8 MS. CRESPY: Since you asked about 9 the website, there is one issue, unfortunately, 10 that is an increasing problem for our -- for 11 customers of wireless services and that is text 12 spam.13 And as a consumer I get, 14 unfortunately, text spam and I know what to do. 15 So I went to the FCC's website to complain. 16 It is not easy to -- it is not an easy category. 17 You think it would be, but it's not.18 If you go into the Telemarketing 19 Complaint Section, it says that is where you 20 put in text spam, but once you go in there, there 21 is no place for text spam. It's all about calls 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 105 to your landline. And then if you go into the 1 Wireless Section, there is complaints for calls 2 and for emails and other things, but no text 3 spam.4 And since it is an increasing 5 problem, I think you might really want to zero 6 in on that and make it very easy to complain, 7 so you can really gather information on what 8 a growing problem this has become.9 CHAIR BERLYN: And just to let 10 everybody know before we go into the Q&A session, 11 we are going to be talking later about how we 12 are going to participate in giving the FCC 13 feedback. So we are going to have a process 14 for this, so just to let you know that. Paul?15 MR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Paul 16 Schroeder with the American Foundation for the 17 Blind. A couple things. One is I think the 18 disability community definitely wants to give 19 you feedback on the website and we need to do 20 it in a structured way, so, Deborah, thanks for 21 your comment on that already.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 106 On complaints, I want to -- this 1 question started to be asked, but I want to try 2 to understand it better. A couple of things. 3 One is there is, as our person from New York 4 pointed out, a load of things that come under, 5 I'm sure broadcast programming, cable satellite 6 programming as major complaint items, VoIP 7 bundling.8 Are most of the programming-related 9 items, do they relate to missing channels, 10 missing programs, indecency? You know, I'm 11 just mad because why the heck did they put Dallas 12 on again? I mean, it was a terrible show to 13 start with. I don't know. I mean, what are 14 -- I mean, and it kind of leads to my question, 15 which is how -- to what percent of the complaints 16 are actually remediable or actionable that you 17 got that can actually be acted upon?18 And then I guess the third thing and 19 it kind of gets back to using the data, what 20 can be done? 90,000 complaints in a quarter 21 seems like a lot. And if a high percentage of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 107 those are actionable, what can be done to push 1 policies that potentially regulatory action of 2 the Commission that might actually lead to fewer 3 complaints needing to be lodged. Is that 4 something that you are looking at?5 MS. BOWERS: Well, first of all, 6 Paul, everything that you mentioned, Major 7 League Baseball, I think, was -- is it on, 8 because I'm not sure? Can you hear me? Oh, 9 I'm not close enough. Okay.10 Everything that you mentioned is the 11 types of complaints that we see. I think you 12 missed out Major League Baseball, they can't 13 get their channel for that. And for the most 14 part, what the CAMS try to do is advocate the 15 issue. Try to resolve the issue.16 And we are limited as to what we can 17 do. That's -- I can't begin to tell you enough 18 about the CAMS that sit on the front line to 19 take the calls and deal with the complaints, 20 because we are limited in how we can resolve 21 some of these issues.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 108 And for the most part, I think we 1 are able to handle the individual complaint to 2 the degree that the consumer leaves somewhat 3 satisfied or at least knowing, you know, here 4 are your options to try to resolve the issue. 5 Did you want to take the question on future?6 MS. BRODERSON: Well, I think the 7 point you raised, I think your third point, about 8 how we can address these issues, we have this 9 high volume of complaints, that's exactly why 10 we are trying to improve our data analysis to 11 help inform the kind of regulatory action the 12 Commission could take or not necessarily 13 regulatory actions, just cooperation with 14 industry to see what we can do to address these 15 consumer concerns.16 I mean, you asked what percentage 17 were remediable, you know. I don't know. We 18 don't have statistics on that necessarily, 19 because, you know, I mean, some of that it's 20 kind of subjective, but we certainly do our best21 to address -- either address each issue with 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 109 a consumer or refer it to an entity, the FTC 1 or a state PUC who can.2 So, yes, we don't have any hard and 3 fast stats on that part.4 CHAIR BERLYN: So I'm going to --5 if you don't mind, we have so many questions, 6 we are going to get back to questions for just 7 a bit, but I am going to ask if folks could hold 8 and I'm going to ask Commissioner Pai to come 9 to the table.10 It is my pleasure to introduce 11 Commissioner Pai, who is the other new arrival 12 to the Commission. And it's a pleasure to have 13 you here today. You are also not a real stranger 14 to the FCC. You served as a staff member in 15 the Office of the General Counsel for several 16 years at the FCC. And I hope that you will be 17 a frequent visitor to the Consumer Advisory 18 Committee. It's a pleasure to have you here 19 today and welcome.20 COMMISSIONER PAI: Well, thank you. 21 Thank you very much, Chairperson Berlyn. I 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 110 appreciate the introduction. And thanks to all 1 of you as well for taking time out of your meeting 2 to accommodate me.3 I just wanted to say hello and 4 introduce myself. I am Ajit Pai. I have got 5 all of four weeks of tenure now at the 6 Commission, so I feel like a grizzled veteran, 7 at this point, of the communications wars.8 But no, seriously, it has been a 9 fantastic reintroduction to the Commission. 10 I love this Agency. I love the work that we 11 do and I love this industry. And I think it 12 is such a privilege to be able to serve in this 13 capacity.14 I also wanted to thank you for the 15 work that you are doing on the Committee. I 16 think a lot of the times people, when they think 17 about the FCC, at least people within this 18 building, they would think about products and 19 services and devices and equipment, but none 20 of that really means anything until the rubber 21 meets the road and the road is the consumer.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 111 And so, you know, the question is 1 is the industry, is the Commission doing 2 everything it can to make the communication 3 services and products that we all enjoy work 4 for the consumer?5 And so to that extent, your input 6 is extremely valuable. I think the 7 Commission's decision making is just enriched 8 by having a variety of perspectives on these 9 issues. And I know that, from my own personal 10 experiences as I was explaining yesterday to 11 another committee, people have a lot of 12 complaints about communications.13 And I have now become a more frequent 14 recipient of such complaints, even from my own 15 family. So I know that, you know, there is a 16 lot of interest in making the industry work 17 better for consumers.18 And so to the extent that I can play 19 any role in, you know, helping consumers have 20 a better experience, that's something that is 21 certainly a priority for me. And I don't have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 112 anything beyond that other than to say, you know, 1 it's good to be here and if you have any 2 questions, comments, I would be happy to field 3 them.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone have a 5 quick question for the Commissioner? I know 6 you have your cards up for the other questions, 7 but you could raise your hand for this one if 8 you have a question.9 Mitsi has a question.10 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, Cable 11 and Broadband Administrator from Montgomery 12 County. Welcome. Thanks for coming to see us. 13 I was just curious, is there one particular 14 issue that is close to your heart or that you 15 are looking to focus on?16 COMMISSIONER PAI: I feel like I'm 17 sort of a jack-of-all-trades. I love, you know, 18 the full pamphlet of issues within the 19 Commission's jurisdiction. Some of the more--20 the bigger priorities, I guess, I would say is 21 a Spectrum policy writ-large. I mean, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 113 obviously, Congress has just given us incentive 1 option authority and that's going to consume 2 a lot of the Commission's time over the coming 3 months and years.4 But also to other Spectrum policies, 5 you know, working with the Federal Government 6 to relinquish or share Spectrum. Identifying 7 other bands that can be either allocated more 8 efficiently or can be used more efficiently, 9 you know, on Tuesdays or Wednesday, I guess, 10 it was that we voted on a 4.9 gigahertz item 11 to improve the use of the band, which hasn't 12 been used as much as we thought it would have 13 back in 1999 and 2002.14 So really trying to get more 15 Spectrum out into the marketplace. And I think 16 the reason is that the Spectrum shortage 17 ultimately re-downs to the detriment of 18 consumers. If there is not as much Spectrum, 19 then carriers feel like they have to impose even 20 more stringent policies in terms of voice and 21 data use or increased prices.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 114 And ultimately, like I was saying 1 in my initial comments, where the rubber meets 2 the road is the consumer is not going to have, 3 you know, the same level or quality of service 4 that he or she might have enjoyed previously.5 So Spectrum policy, I think, is the 6 biggest thing on our plate right now. I guess 7 the only other -- there are a bunch of other 8 areas within which the Commission is working 9 on, but one of the other priorities, I guess, 10 that our office has is trying to get to the 11 Commission to be a little more nimble in terms 12 of keeping pace with the marketplace and 13 technological innovation.14 I have been struggling the last 15 several weeks by how many companies across a 16 variety of different communications industries 17 have said that, you know, they are waiting for 18 Commission action on X or Y. And regardless 19 of what the action is, it would just be nice 20 to have some certainty there.21 And so to the extent that our office 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 115 can play a role in these issues, we would like 1 to bring a sense of, you now, vigor and dispatch 2 to the Agency's decision making in order to 3 benefit, you know, not just the industry, but 4 ultimately consumers.5 MS. HERRERA: Okay. If I could 6 just quickly say, that's great to hear. And 7 I would just encourage you to look not only at 8 that, but also within the FCC and your current 9 roles.10 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.11 MS. HERRERA: You have customer 12 service regulations that you have not updated 13 since they were first enacted in '92 and where 14 you are limited in what you can enforce, you 15 yourself wrote the rules and your lack of 16 updating them inhibits the services you can 17 provide.18 Your cable standards are still 19 analog, not digital. 20 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.21 MS. HERRERA: We have a petition 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 116 that has been pending on the AT&T that has been 1 sitting out there for three years, so we would 2 be happy to let -- do that, but I would just 3 sort of encourage you. There is a long list 4 of stuff that you have got in-house that probably 5 is in some work process. 6 COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.7 MS. HERRERA: And so giving it a 8 kickstart may be what you need and you could 9 probably knock them out pretty quick.10 COMMISSIONER PAI: Absolutely. 11 Please, do let us know. I mean, don't -- we 12 have an open door policy in our office and we 13 welcome, you know, if there are specific docket 14 numbers or proceedings that you want us to take 15 a look at, do let us know, because we have already 16 taken action on a few things.17 And my previous iteration of the 18 general counsel's office, I was always amazed 19 that there are some proceedings that had been 20 lingering for a couple of decades, in some cases 21 without action. So if I have anything to say 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 117 about it, that won't continue to be the case.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you so 2 much, Commissioner, for giving us your time. 3 And we look forward to seeing you again.4 COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks.5 CHAIR BERLYN: So thank you very 6 much.7 COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks for 8 having me. Appreciate it.9 (Applause)10 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So we are 11 talking here. We have so many questions, so 12 many questions, so little time. And that just 13 seems to always happen. But I don't -- this 14 is so important and we do want to figure out--15 we have our own process where we are going to 16 be helping you with this, so we need to be 17 well-informed.18 We also need to take a break and we 19 have a panel coming up. I'm wondering, Scott, 20 if when we -- we probably do have time in the 21 afternoon to -- we will be talking about this 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 118 process. And I'm wondering if Deborah and 1 Sharon might be willing to come back when we 2 are talking about our process, if there is some 3 time, when we might be able to continue this 4 discussion with questions.5 And maybe during our -- why don't 6 we take a five minute break now and we will figure 7 this out, because I don't -- we don't want to 8 lose your questions in this process, because 9 this is so important.10 So let's see if we can figure that 11 out. Let's take a five or maybe -- let's be 12 realistic. Let's take a 10 minute break, but, 13 please, be back. Thank you.14 (Whereupon, at 10:45 a.m. a recess 15 until 11:03 a.m.)16 CHAIR BERLYN: So just to let you 17 all know, what we are going to do with our 18 schedule is that I've got Sharon and Deborah 19 are going to come back at 11:50. And we are 20 going to carve a little bit of time out of the 21 Spectrum session at 11:50 and start our Spectrum 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 119 session after -- we will have about 15 minutes 1 for questions with Sharon and Deborah.2 Then we will start out Spectrum 3 session and slide our lunch -- we will see how 4 much time we need for the Spectrum session. 5 We have probably a little bit more time on the 6 Spectrum session than we might need. We will 7 see. But then we will see if we get back on 8 schedule or not, but we can slide a little into 9 the lunch if we need to.10 So we will have them back at 11:50, 11 just to let you know.12 So we have a panel here. Before I 13 introduce our panel, I know a number of people 14 came in a little late this morning, so now is 15 an opportunity to point out who you are and have 16 you introduce yourselves to the group very 17 quickly. Just say your name and identify who 18 you are with.19 So let's go around the room. If you 20 didn't get a chance to introduce yourselves this 21 morning, please, do so now.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 120 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. Well, I'm 1 one of them, Paul Schroeder, American Foundation 2 for the Blind. I've been on time every other 3 meeting though.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 5 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard, 6 National Association of State Utility Consumer 7 Advocates.8 CHAIR BERLYN: And make sure you 9 raise your hand, because -- and give it a second, 10 because the booth sometimes doesn't see you and 11 then we don't have it recorded. So say it again, 12 Charlie.13 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard, 14 National Association --15 CHAIR BERLYN: It's still not up.16 MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard, 17 National Association of State Utility Consumer 18 Advocates.19 CHAIR BERLYN: There we go. Anyone 20 else on this side? Towards the back, anyone 21 in the back? Oh, wait, there.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 121 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Is it on? 1 Chris Baker with AARP.2 MS. LEECH: Irene Leech.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Got you.4 MS. LEECH: With the Consumer 5 Federation of America.6 MS. WEIN: Olivia Wein, National 7 Consumer Law Center.8 MS. KEARNEY: Julie Kearney, 9 Consumer Electronics Association. And this is 10 like the walk of shame.11 CHAIR BERLYN: I really didn't 12 intend that.13 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, Cable 14 and Broadband Administrator from Montgomery 15 County. And I am in fine company.16 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you 17 all. I just wanted to make sure that you were 18 recognized.19 Okay. So now, we are really 20 fortunate. This is a topic, of course as you 21 all know, that is so important, the Broadband 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 122 Adoption issue. And our Broadband Working 1 Group, Mark and Kris, our Working Group Chairs, 2 could also pipe in on this, but we have three 3 folks here: Cecilia who is a Member of our CAC, 4 of course, and two others who are joining us 5 to talk about Broadband Adoption.6 I will very quickly introduce them. 7 Sitting right next to me, Elizabeth Crocker, 8 who is with the Foundation for Rural Services, 9 which is NTCA, National Telephone -- Telecom 10 Cooperative. It's no longer telephone. It 11 used to be telephone. Now, it's -- now, 12 everything is telecom. Telecommunications 13 Cooperative Association.14 And sitting next to her is Thomas 15 Koutsky, Chief Policy Counsel, with Connection 16 Nation.17 And our three panelists today are 18 going to give us some updates on Broadband 19 Adoption from various different perspectives. 20 And so we are really pleased to have them here 21 today. We didn't discuss an order for this, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 123 but I think it might be helpful to have Tom to 1 have you start us off, because I know you have 2 some stats and things like that for us.3 MR. KOUTSKY: Okay. Sure, happy 4 to. And if you could call up -- I have a slide 5 presentation that is -- there we go. That was 6 simple. It's like magic.7 MR. SCHROEDER: Debra, just 8 quickly, I apologize. I'm sorry, Paul 9 Schroeder with AFB. Tom, I could not open your 10 PowerPoint and it came late, in any event, so, 11 please, be sure to speak up -- speak out any 12 of the information that's on the screen that 13 needs to be communicated, because it's not going 14 to be accessible, at least to me and perhaps 15 others.16 MR. KOUTSKY: Sure. I will do my 17 best and I will -- but to put a word of warning 18 on that, I have a bunch of slides that I have 19 pulled from different presentations that have 20 a lot of just adoption numbers. I don't intend 21 to speak to them all. I really just kind of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 124 wanted to illustrate. I'll do my best to 1 describe what I'm trying to -- the points I'm 2 trying to illustrate.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.4 MR. KOUTSKY: And then get you 5 another copy that you can open.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.7 MR. KOUTSKY: Just, you know, I 8 would like to -- I'm really thankful and 9 appreciative of the invitation from Debbie and 10 the FCC to speak here today. You know, I used 11 to work at this -- actually, as we looked at 12 the former Commissioners or the new 13 Commissioners, I used to work at this Agency 14 as well. I have had two stints at the FCC. Most 15 recently on the National Broadband Plant Team. 16 And so these are issues that I care very deeply 17 about.18 And it is -- what is interesting 19 about my current job is that I'm able to kind 20 of go and study questions and issues related 21 to Broadband Adoption and the utilization that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 125 are facing America's communities.1 And there was one really point about 2 -- I've been like a telecommunications 3 infrastructure guy, basically, for much of my 4 career working with a lot of start-up telephone 5 companies. And coming to the National 6 Broadband Team here at the FCC really made an 7 impression on me in terms of thinking about the 8 adoption and use challenge that this nation has.9 I mean, we can kind of debate and 10 we spend -- oh, I don't even want to know how 11 much money we spend here, it's over $4 billion 12 a year on infrastructure subsidies to get 13 broadband out to rural areas. And that's 14 certainly needed in a lot of instances and in 15 a lot of cases.16 But when we have an important 17 infrastructure that, you know, is absolutely 18 critical to economic growth and social 19 development and we have a third of the nation 20 not adopting it or using it, you know, 21 sufficiently, that's a significant economic 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 126 drag upon our country's economic future and 1 social development.2 And, you know, there are even some 3 instances, as I started in my current job, we 4 have worked basically with, I'll just kind of 5 fast-forward ahead in the slideshow, states and 6 local governments to help them understand the 7 broadband challenges that they face. We 8 operate through the NTIA, State Broadband 9 Initiative Grant Program. I have listed the 10 states and areas here.11 And to really let communities and 12 states know about the challenges they face. 13 And so this, I think, is really important that 14 you are talking about Broadband Adoption from 15 the consumer perspective and from the adoption 16 perspective, because it's absolutely critical 17 that our country face these problems and that 18 this Agency face this problem in a realistic 19 problem-solving way, not a headline grabbing 20 way, but in terms of actually doing some tangible 21 -- getting some tangible results.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 127 This is -- again, these are some very 1 basic facts. You all hear this. If you read 2 enough speeches from FCC Commissioners, you get 3 all of these points eventually, so I'm not going 4 to dwell on them.5 But the real important point is that 6 as long as we have a third of the country that 7 hasn't adopted broadband, two things happen. 8 First of all, this has a direct impact on the 9 case for future broadband investment and growth 10 in terms of the network side. You know, it's 11 very difficult to get constantly upgraded 12 networks if there is -- you know, if they are 13 not necessarily fully utilized, but also, the 14 economic and social development.15 We have seen in recent years with 16 the economic difficulties in this country, a 17 definite flattening in the Broadband Adoption 18 curve. And this is -- you know, if there is 19 like one or two points you take away from one 20 another about the -- what to talk about, you 21 know, look at this graph on the right which22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 128 really shows an adoption of broadband to 1 undertaking an S-curve pattern, where it starts 2 off very low and then it escalates beginning 3 in 2001/2002 rather sharply up to until it runs 4 across about 60 percent of the United States 5 households and then it flattens off.6 It flattens off in 2009/2010 and 7 even starts to dip. And, you know, the dip is 8 actually really concerning, because it does 9 indicate that there is some, you know as an 10 economist would say, elasticity of demand for 11 broadband service.12 At certain prices, you know, people 13 start to think twice about buying it and then 14 in economic difficulties, they start to think 15 twice, you know, they even start to think about 16 disconnecting it. so that flattening is 17 really, really important.18 On the Broadband Plant Team, we have 19 built a lot of the design assumption. This is 20 actually called a Gompertz curve. There is a 21 phrase for this S-curve adoption and you see 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 129 it for every technology, consumer technology 1 that has been put in place from color TVs to 2 VCRs to, you know, computers. They all follow 3 this S-curve type adoption. They all flatten 4 out in some way.5 Now, for color TV, I think you could 6 probably argue that at around 95 percent of TVs, 7 you know, it's not that big of a deal. But for 8 broadband technology, if that S-curve flattens 9 out at 65 percent, we have a significant social 10 challenge and economic challenge in our country, 11 because that is one- third, you know, of 12 Americans that, you know, will not have the same 13 opportunities for their kids, will face it more 14 increasingly difficult to even do some things 15 such as accessing basic Government services.16 There was an interesting set of 17 studies on how expensive it is to be poor in 18 this country. It is actually very expensive 19 to be poor, because if you are limited and if 20 you don't have a car and you're limited to the 21 neighborhood grocery store, you pay for more 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 130 milk. And if you have to take half a day to 1 get your Social Security check processed and 2 wait in line, because you don't have on-line 3 access to do the same function, that costs you 4 money. That is time you had to put your kids, 5 you know, in child care or that you had to take 6 off of work.7 Just a few slides and again, you 8 know, we're happy to talk about, you know, 9 certainly these numbers. Whenever I think 10 about when Debbie invited me to do this, I almost 11 instinctively, you know, moved towards thinking 12 about the adoption gap among the elderly, 13 because she is such a good advocate for the 14 groups that she has worked with, that they do 15 stick out.16 So I have, you know, indulged her 17 with some statistics about, you know, difference 18 in adoption and ages. And I think the important 19 thing to see here from this slide are not the 20 numbers themselves, but to understand that there 21 are different reasons why people don't adopt 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 131 broadband service. And they do vary by age and 1 demographic group.2 What we see here is that for young 3 Americans or younger households, ages 18 to 54, 4 the largest barrier to entry is cost. These 5 numbers were actually demonstrated by or were 6 gathered through state surveys that Connected 7 Nation has done in our, you know, eight states 8 and we have kind of aggregated these up.9 And we asked -- you know, these are 10 scientific surveys, calling up people and asking 11 them what's the main reason you don't buy 12 broadband and really kind of rationalizing this. 13 14 So for younger Americans age 18 to 15 54, you know, the predominant reason they don't 16 subscribe is cost. It's about 33 percent of 17 them cite that as a reason. 18 For older Americans, age 70 and 19 older, the predominant reason they don't 20 subscribe is relevance. I mean, it was stated, 21 you know, there is a lot of ways that they can 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 132 state relevance. We kind of grouped them up 1 into relevance.2 And then kind of in the middle is 3 digital literacy or a lack of digital skills. 4 You know, also it does vary by age. I think 5 this is important, because what it does -- you 6 know, this is a little bit more about senior 7 technology adoption to show that even within 8 the senior community, there are a fair -- there 9 is a wide range of demographic differences.10 I mean, even -- I'll just point out 11 one, which is if all seniors over age 70-- the 12 Broadband Adoption rate is 30 percent. But of 13 seniors over 70 that live alone, the adoption 14 rate is 17 percent. These are the individuals 15 that would stand to gain the most by being 16 connected to the rest of the world and their 17 adoption rate is, basically, as low as you see 18 in just about any community.19 And I think that's rather striking. 20 Again, this is one of the neat things about 21 my job is I get to tell the survey guys what 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 133 to survey. And so --1 MR. McELDOWNEY: Did you control 2 for cost?3 MR. KOUTSKY: We did. Well, not--4 in terms of control for cost? These are -- this 5 is not -- we do -- I do in another analysis, 6 but not on these slides. I have a different 7 analysis that tries to separate out using a 8 regression analysis. This is really just more 9 of a statement of adoption rates.10 That is an interesting paper that 11 we are going to be releasing in a couple of weeks, 12 that's why I had to double check myself, because 13 I might have stolen the wrong slide.14 This is barriers. This is a slide 15 that really kind of articulates some significant 16 barriers among the different demographic group, 17 which is low-income households with children. 18 And again, I think the reason this type of 19 research is important is because it tells us 20 what we need to do in terms of solutions.21 We cannot have a one-size-fits-all. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 134 I'm going to skip ahead in the interest of time. 1 We need to have solutions that are targeted 2 towards bridging the specific gap that we are 3 trying to address. A solution that is aimed 4 at lowering the cost of Broadband Adoption is 5 going to work in some communities or in some 6 demographic groups potentially, such as 7 low-income households with kids, where, 8 frankly, those families don't need to be told 9 about the importance and relevance of broadband 10 to the future of their children.11 I mean, families understand that. 12 So these are the families that are piling into 13 libraries, you know, constantly now, so students 14 can do their homework. So for them, cost is 15 the main barrier.16 For a group like senior citizens or, 17 you know, other Americans, you know, a 18 similarly situated American, such as those that 19 live alone or other low-income families without 20 children, lack of digital skills, lack of 21 relevance are main barriers.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 135 To overcome this challenge, we need 1 to target the solutions based on the research 2 results. Then you need to execute it and then 3 you need to assess and analyze the success 4 stories.5 A couple really things I want to 6 leave you with that are initiatives that are 7 happening right now, the FCC has proposed to 8 spend some portion of the Universal Service Fund 9 on digital literacy funding. This is an open 10 proceeding right now. You know, I filed 11 comments. There are things about the proposal 12 before the FCC that I would do differently than 13 the way they have done it.14 I'm happy to talk more in detail 15 about it, but I do think this is an important 16 opening that the Commission has signaled to say 17 we think digital literacy or a lack of digital 18 skills is a barrier to Broadband Adoption and 19 we are proposing to use Universal Service Funds 20 to help bridge that gap.21 I think, you know, as a group or as 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 136 individual, you know, entities with a consumer 1 focus, I think that is something, a proceeding 2 you may want to think about getting involved 3 in, either as a CAC or as your individual groups, 4 because the FCC really could stand to hear a 5 lot of voices about the need for digital literacy 6 and training in that proceeding.7 You can't really see this because 8 of the closed captioning, but another initiative 9 the Commission has going on right now is a 10 proposal to spend $25 million on a Broadband 11 Pilot Project for their low-income fund, the 12 Lifeline Fund.13 Those of you that have been around 14 the circle for a while know that the Lifeline 15 Fund is a targeted Universal Service Fund of 16 over $2 billion a year that is targeted towards 17 low-income purchase -- low-income consumers who 18 purchase VoIP service.19 The FCC launched a genuine -- we 20 heard a bit about this this morning, they 21 launched a genuine -- a general revamping of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 137 that program earlier in the year and have opened 1 the door to transforming that program into a 2 broadband support program.3 These are pilots. This is a pilot 4 process that is basically going to take the next 5 year. The FCC has solicited applications from 6 service providers who are the recipients of 7 these funds. Those applications are due on July 8 2 nd .9 The idea behind the pilot is to come 10 up with measurable data as to what types of price 11 points would persuade low-income Americans to 12 buy broadband. There is a focus on price as 13 a barrier in this proceeding, which I know I 14 just said you wouldn't want to have a singular 15 focus. They have tried to build-in digital 16 literacy and other components into this program, 17 but they haven't proposed or subsidized that 18 in the context of a pilot.19 So there are some problematic 20 aspects to the way the FCC has established the 21 pilot, but without getting into those details, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 138 that is something else for this group, I think, 1 would be interested in monitoring and 2 understanding where -- you know, what the 3 Commission does with the results of these 4 pilots.5 I'm going to conclude really quickly 6 here and just kind of note that, you know, 7 honestly, this year is a critical year with 8 regard to the FCC's adoption programs and 9 initiatives. 10 There has been a lot of talk about 11 doing things. There has been a lot of ideas 12 floated around. There has been a lot of 13 discussion about adoption being an issue that 14 the Commission intends to really grab hold of. 15 They do deserve credit for the Lifeline Pilot 16 Program and for proposing digital literacy 17 training as part as USF.18 But this coming year will be the year 19 where we will find out whether or not those 20 proposals will come to fruition and in what shape 21 and manner they form. You know, will we see 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 139 the targeted -- you know, will we see the pilot 1 programs go to areas that need it? I skipped 2 over a couple slides, but one important fact 3 that came out recently was that the Territory 4 of Puerto Rico has a Broadband Adoption rate 5 of 31 percent.6 The Territory of Puerto Rico is 7 larger than half of the states in the United 8 States in terms of population. If the State 9 of Delaware -- if we were looking and saw that 10 the State of Delaware had a 31 percent adoption 11 rate, while New Jersey had, you know, 85 percent 12 and Pennsylvania had 75 percent, you know, 13 honestly, the Chairman of the FCC would be 14 driving over to Dover to give speeches about 15 solving the Broadband Adoption gap in Delaware.16 That's the situation in Puerto Rico 17 right now. 31 percent. That has a cascading 18 effect on the island. And so, you know, we will 19 see if there is -- you know, I'm hopeful that 20 some of these initiatives that have been 21 announced and that some of the programs that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 140 have been proposed will go to places like Puerto 1 Rico in a very targeted fashion.2 Where, honestly, you know, in a way 3 when you are at 31 percent, it might even, you 4 know, be a little bit easier to show success 5 because it is clearly a significant problem for 6 the Territory and the Territory and the 7 Government is really trying to press forward 8 and come up with tangible solutions.9 You know, and the other point is that 10 -- I think Cecilia can talk about this, but a 11 lot of the BTOP programs that were funded for 12 Broadband Adoption are going to start to wind 13 down next year. You know, some of the original 14 programs that were given funding in 2009 were 15 two or three year programs.16 And, you know, what do we do with 17 those success stories? We're going to have to 18 figure out which ones were successful and, you 19 know, in this next year we are going to need 20 to decide whether we are going to wind those 21 down or not or whether we are going to reinvest 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 141 in them.1 And with that, I will turn it over 2 to the rest of the panel.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. So, 4 Elizabeth?5 MS. CROCKER: All right. I'm 6 Elizabeth Crocker, the Executive Director of 7 the Foundation for Rural Service. And as Debra 8 mentioned, we are the philanthropic arm of NTCA, 9 which represents rural telecom carriers all 10 across the country.11 So we have about 600 rural telecom 12 companies that we work with and about 400 13 associate members who provide services to those 14 folks. And it has really been a very 15 interesting couple of years for us as well. 16 We really started the foundation as more 17 education-based and working with youth 18 primarily and that's definitely changed over 19 the past few years and we have really had to 20 branch out and now we are in a lot of different 21 areas.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 142 We have done a paper which I talked 1 to Debra quite a bit about on Aging in Place 2 and the role of broadband. We are working on 3 a Smart Agriculture Paper with the role of 4 broadband. We are just doing a lot of different 5 things and part of the reason we are doing them 6 is because our rural communities need so much 7 more right now.8 I'm laughing as he is talking, I was 9 here two weeks ago with 100 teenagers from all 10 over rural America sitting in this room 11 listening to four of our Commissioners speak. 12 And one of the questions one of the 13 Commissioners asked was how many of you, we had 14 16, 17 year-olds, have helped your parents and 15 your grandparents learn how to get on the 16 Internet and pretty much every kid in the room 17 raised their hand.18 So it's kind of fun to see that 19 statistic and then see it in reality as well.20 The interesting thing about the 21 foundation, we do a lot of different things. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 143 We do build stuffers and mailers for our 1 telephone companies to educate the rural 2 customers, so we are working on Internet safety, 3 on-line safety. We just did one on 4 cyber-bullying.5 We are going to do a mailer on Aging 6 in Place and they can get that information out 7 to their customers. We do White Papers. And 8 I brought our most recent one, because we have 9 been talking about it a lot and I would be happy 10 to give you a copy if you are interest on Aging 11 in Place and the opportunities that are out 12 there.13 We are really trying to encourage 14 our telephone companies and our 15 telecommunication companies to see the 16 potential in these opportunities, because if 17 they can get out in their community and provide 18 these services, the community is stronger, they 19 have a larger customer base. There is a lot 20 of win-wins and this is just -- it was a great 21 sort of synergy for us in reaching out to new 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 144 communities.1 I want to talk about a couple of 2 different things. The first one is our grant 3 program, because we have had some really fun 4 success stories with that. So I'm really the 5 grassroots person. I'm the one who is out 6 there. I'm talking to our members. I'm in the 7 rural communities and I see some of the stuff 8 in action.9 And I had talked to them a few weeks 10 ago about one of our telecom companies in Oregon, 11 which I just love this story, but it's Clear 12 Creek in Oregon. And I walked into their office 13 and said well, why do you have all these laptops 14 in the lobby and all these computers set up in 15 the lobby? And they had some teenagers sitting 16 there working on them and I thought well, that's 17 interesting. Is this some kind of work program?18 Well, no, they just hire teenagers 19 to come in after school and sit in the lobby, 20 because they find that so many people come in 21 to pay their bills, which I know and I have said 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 145 this before, it's unimaginable for us in 1 Washington that people actually go in to the 2 company and pay their bill in person, we don't 3 do that here.4 But it is in rural communities 5 something that happens very regularly. And 6 they have the teenagers there surfing the 7 Internet and, you know, they have folks well, 8 what are you doing and sit down next to them 9 and talk to them. And, you know, the next thing 10 you know, they are showing them things on the 11 Internet.12 It's a very, very basic grassroots 13 level, but it's something that is kind of fun 14 and that works. 15 In Toledo Telephone in Washington 16 State, one of our board members actually at FRS 17 was telling me that he had a jump from 40 percent 18 to 70 percent through his BTOP Program. And 19 part of it was really just the computer process 20 they offered on-site at their telecom. And that 21 is something that I think our Rural Telecom 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 146 Members do amazingly well.1 Our customers have -- excuse me, our 2 telecommunications companies have amazing 3 customer service, phenomenal customer service. 4 They have Geek Squads, they have folks that 5 are going into people's homes and helping them. 6 And the real difference for them is if somebody 7 has a problem with their broadband, with their 8 connection, with anything going on in their 9 home, they see those folks in the grocery store.10 The general manager of that company 11 sees them at church on Sunday, at the grocery 12 store on Monday and those people are complaining 13 to them directly. In a small town, there is 14 nowhere to run. So they really and truly thrive 15 on good customer service and it's very, very 16 important to our members.17 One of the other ones I love talking 18 about and somebody had mentioned it last time 19 or asked me about a mobile computer lab and if 20 anyone had done anything with that. We had just 21 given a grant in 2011 to Lake Pearl Economic 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 147 Development Authority in Minnesota for a mobile 1 computer lab and our money kind of finished off 2 their project and allowed them to move forward 3 with this.4 So they have a sort of shuttle bus 5 that goes to six different communities. It is 6 handicap accessible. They have a Kindle, an 7 iPad, a digital camera and seven computers on 8 the bus and they actually drive around to 9 different communities to senior centers. They 10 really focus on seniors and sort of below-income 11 levels and they really try to get out there and 12 work on adoption on a very grassroots level 13 again.14 They sent me a picture of it last 15 night. I was calling and asking them some 16 questions about the program and how it was going 17 and it's just -- it's really, really cool to 18 see that in action. They are actually serving 19 30 people a week right now, which may not seem 20 like a lot to us here in Washington, but for 21 a small rural community, that's a lot of folks 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 148 that they are reaching through that program.1 One other thing that we are doing 2 at the foundation is we are doing foundations 3 of computing and basic digital literacy classes. 4 And this one is kind of surprising, I think, 5 but when we go to one of NTCA's meetings with 6 3,000 telecom association folks, we have a lot 7 of people who are on the board of directors of 8 these companies. And many of them have been 9 on that board for 20, 30, 40 years.10 They are not necessarily telecom 11 people with a telecom background. Many of them 12 are farmers. And so, you know, they come in 13 and you would think they might have a stronger 14 background, but they don't. So we actually 15 offered a class at a recent meeting and just 16 had an overwhelming popularity for a basic 17 digital literacy class.18 And it is interesting, you know, the 19 first thing a lot of them ask is well, how do 20 I Skype with my grandkids? So that's -- but 21 it's always a great inlet and it's a great way 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 149 to get people interested and engaged in it. 1 I have a wonderful slide, I wish I had it with 2 me today, of one of my friends children at 6 3 months-old. She has her baby in a Bumbo seat 4 Skyping with her grandmother across the country 5 in a rural community.6 But I love that photo, because it 7 really shows what opportunities are out there 8 and what a great way to see and get people engaged 9 and interested and maybe they can take that next 10 step.11 So, I mean, we have a lot of kinds 12 of things going on at the foundation. I would 13 be happy to talk to you all about them in more 14 detail, but it's just a very exciting time for 15 us.16 I kind of let the folks at NTCA work 17 on the policy side and the lobbying side, that's 18 their gig. So when we start getting into19 infrastructure and costs, I defer those 20 questions to them.21 But on the foundation side, we are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 150 really about investing in our rural communities 1 and making sure they have tools they need.2 And I will tell you just on a side 3 note as well, our 100 teenagers that were here 4 last week, two weeks ago, they asked some pretty 5 tough questions. I've got to say the 6 Commissioners, I think, were a little taken back 7 by some of the questions they asked. But it 8 was kind of fun to see how engaged they were 9 in this whole sort of issue talking about digital 10 divide between rural and urban areas, in terms 11 of adoption and that sort of thing.12 And so I think we have a really great 13 group of young people coming up that are asking 14 some of these tough questions and hoping to push 15 some of these adoption issues forward for their 16 communities as well.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you, 18 Elizabeth. Cecilia?19 MS. GARCIA: Thank you, Debra. I 20 would like to thank Debra and the Broadband 21 Working Group for giving me an opportunity to 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 151 talk about a very interesting gathering that 1 the Benton Foundation and Connected Living 2 co-hosted. And some of you were actually there. 3 Debra was in the audience and Mitsi was in the 4 audience, Chris Baker helped me out on one of 5 the panels.6 We had decided some time ago, based 7 on our involvement in Illinois with the 8 Connected Living BTOP Program to look deeper 9 into some of the policy solutions that might 10 emerge from this major federal investment that 11 has been made. And as Tom points out is coming 12 to an end very soon in the BTOP Sustainable 13 Broadband Adoption and Public Computer Center 14 grants that had been made in 2009.15 And so what we are -- what we wanted 16 to do was take a look specifically at, what we 17 consider, one of the most vulnerable populations 18 and that's low-income elderly. And the NTIA 19 had identified about 20 programs funded through 20 the BTOP grants that addressed issues or 21 actually provided services for unserved and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 152 under-served communities of low-income elderly.1 So what we did on the 22 nd was tried 2 to take a very close look at one of those projects 3 that had built-in evaluation from the very 4 beginning of the process. And unfortunately, 5 when BTOP started, there were a number of us, 6 including Charles Benton, who sat on this CAC 7 for several terms, who made a lot of meetings 8 here at the FCC, but primarily at NTIA, at the 9 time, asking what efforts are going to be made 10 to evaluate this investment from the beginning, 11 so that we know what approaches work in what 12 communities, what solutions can be made 13 mid-course, so that at the end of this 14 investment, we come away with really strong data 15 similar to what Tom was talking about about what 16 approaches work and how then to use that to 17 inform policy as we move forward in bringing 18 the entire nation into good use of 21 st Century 19 telecommunications technology. We need to do 20 that.21 Unfortunately, I think, very few 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 153 projects really had the same kind of attention 1 to strong third-party evaluations that 2 Connected Living had. We looked at that as a 3 real asset for that project.4 We found some very interesting 5 findings, based on at least their initial 6 evaluation. They will be doing their last round 7 of surveys and final evaluation this summer. 8 But some of the things that they are looking 9 at are -- in addition to the barriers that Tom 10 had pointed out, I think what emerged from the 11 discussions on May 22 nd were some additional 12 barriers.13 And one of the -- for this, the 14 low-income elderly anxiety is one of those 15 intangible barriers that, as a person increases 16 in age, becomes even more apparent when it comes 17 to technology.18 And again, you have seen this 19 through every new iteration of technology. It 20 doesn't matter if it is -- it goes from the radio 21 to -- all the way through broadband access. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 154 As we get older, there is a fear that if you 1 touch something new, you might break it. If 2 you touch the computer, you're going to break 3 it.4 So what implications does that have 5 on how we do sustainable Broadband Adoption 6 training? Do we do it in a person's home? And 7 I think there is a tension that kind of emerged 8 throughout the day on the 22 nd . There were those 9 who were saying we really have to have a computer 10 in every elderly person's living space, so that 11 they are always connected. They always have 12 access.13 Then there are others who argued 14 equally passionately that no, what is more 15 important is where does that person learn best? 16 Is it maybe in a senior housing project, if 17 there is a computer lab on-site? Instead of 18 having a computer in that person's living space, 19 if they are in a common area where there is access 20 to trainers and access to other people and access 21 to, you know, the kind of support that they need 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 155 right then, it may be better for them in that 1 learning.2 So in other words, as Tom pointed 3 out, there is no one-size-fits-all solution to 4 bringing this most vulnerable population 5 on-line.6 We will have -- I don't want to talk 7 about the whole day, because we spent eight hours 8 at this. It was very interesting. We looked 9 at -- we did -- Tony Wilhelm actually came in 10 from NTIA and gave luncheon remarks.11 And the interesting thing/point 12 that he made is that by 2015, there will be more 13 people in the United States over the age of 60 14 than under the age of 15. I thought that was 15 very compelling. I guess, you know, my thinking 16 was just the opposite. That, you know, the 17 younger age cohorts were greater in number, but 18 the fact is we are an aging population.19 And so we have to pay attention to 20 this, because low-income seniors are not part 21 of the digital economy. And we need to make 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 156 sure that we do whatever we can learn, whatever 1 we can from this major federal investment. We 2 can't let it go to waste.3 We have to see what can we learn 4 from BTOP. How can we adopt those to policies 5 that bring everyone on-line in a comfortable 6 way, in a way that protects their privacy, that 7 helps with the anxiety. 8 There is another finding that we 9 heard from a number of speakers who said that 10 contrary to popular opinion, issues of isolation 11 are actually mitigated when elderly begin to 12 get engaged on-line.13 There was this theory that has been 14 floating around that the more we engage in 15 computers and we're stuck to -- you know, instead 16 of face-to-face communications with people, 17 that we get more isolated.18 Well, at least anecdotally, the 19 Digital Inclusion Initiative that was done by 20 Senior Service America in collaboration with 21 Generations On-Line is finding just the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 157 opposite. That as people get more engaged with 1 family communications, with seeing the world 2 outside of their living quarters, that's 3 actually helping to fight isolation.4 The other thing that we learned that 5 I think is very exciting and particularly 6 pertinent to any efforts in terms of developing 7 a digital literacy core, at least two of the 8 projects that we talked to on May 22 nd reported 9 back that peer coaching, seniors who come 10 through a training and then turn around and begin 11 to train their peers, it's a very successful 12 approach in at least two of the projects.13 Intergenerational is also a very 14 good approach and the New York OATS Project shows 15 a lot of good synergy between young people and 16 the elderly. But again, peer-to-peer also is 17 very, very significant.18 And I want to stop there, because 19 I would like to hear questions from the audience 20 around this.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you all. That 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 158 was great. We got so much information there. 1 Fantastic. So let's do -- Chris, is your card 2 up for a question? Excellent. Okay. Raise 3 your hand and identify yourself.4 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Actually, you 6 weren't on.7 MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Chris 8 Baker?9 CHAIR BERLYN: Hello, over there in 10 the booth? Let's try it again.11 MR. BAKER: Mark DeFalco?12 CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are on 13 now. I think you are on.14 MR. BAKER: That worked?15 CHAIR BERLYN: I think that worked.16 MR. BAKER: Okay. Well, I just 17 want to thank the panelists for coming. A lot 18 of interesting information. Although, I do 19 have to admit, I'm a little disappointed with 20 the -- some of the statistics that they didn't 21 include any mention of quality and the quality 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 159 of broadband.1 It's so important. I mean, you 2 know, saying you have Broadband Adoption is sort 3 of like saying well, you don't have to walk. 4 You know, you can take a bike. You can take 5 a car. You can fly in an airplane. It's not 6 the same thing.7 And it's important to recognize that 8 the services that can help older adults in many 9 ways require a little more quality and speed. 10 So that's point one.11 Point two, I think digital literacy 12 is so important. And I agree with you, I'm --13 I think the Benton Foundation's work on this 14 is great.15 But, you know, it's also important 16 to look at the technology as well, you know, 17 digital literacy is about trying to get people 18 to adapt to the technology. I think it's also 19 important to have technology that works for 20 people. And making these devices easier to use 21 and more intuitive, I think, will get rid of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 160 a lot of the anxiety that older adults have.1 And there just doesn't seem to be 2 as much focus on that in the policy circles. 3 So --4 MS. CROCKER: I would love to jump 5 in on that one if you don't mind.6 MR. BAKER: Sure.7 MS. CROCKER: Because this paper 8 that we just put out really addresses that. 9 And one thing we are really encouraging our 10 telecos to do, a few of them have taken a really 11 strong lead on it and we are trying to show that 12 as an example and say look at what all, you 13 know, the other companies can do.14 And they are really offering 15 opportunities for folks to Age in Place with 16 remote monitoring and video conferencing. In 17 fact, one of our board members from Tennessee 18 told me she just went to all five hospitals 19 and have out this paper and started talking to 20 them about video conferencing.21 One of the interesting things in 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 161 there was psychiatry, which is one of the easiest 1 things to do. And really especially for people 2 in rural communities who are so far from 3 specialists, that have to drive so far to get 4 some place, they might not actually do it, but 5 they might go to their local hospital that 6 doesn't necessarily have a specialist, but get 7 on-line and do a video conference.8 So we really are trying to provide 9 some of those opportunities and encourage --10 for us again, it's a win-win. The telecos have 11 a broader business base. They are investing 12 in their community making it stronger and we 13 are really providing better services for the 14 folks who live there.15 So we really are trying to do that 16 more and more in our membership.17 MR. BAKER: Thanks.18 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes, and I 19 self-edited in my slides, so I would be happy 20 to get with you afterwards, because we do have 21 -- you know, part of our surveys do include 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 162 quality and technology measurements, too. I 1 just didn't throw them up there. But I'm happy 2 to share those with you.3 You know, actually, there is an 4 interplay here between supply and demand that 5 is important to understand. I actually think 6 for a lot of particular applications of 7 broadband technology would rely upon a ubiquity 8 of service networks. Particularly of the 9 wireless variety.10 You know, a thing like a remote 11 monitoring device, you know, to help and elderly 12 diabetic patient, you know, remotely monitor, 13 you know, their condition over time, does not 14 necessarily require that person to be a 15 subscriber to broadband service. 16 What that requires is for somebody 17 to invent the device that utilizes an LTE 18 wireless network much like buying a Kindle 19 device doesn't require you to be a Sprint 20 subscriber, even though it uses the Sprint 21 Network to get you the book.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 163 I think we will start to see a lot 1 more of those types of devices as 4G service 2 gets rolled out. I think we will see a lot more 3 device-type uses of broadband that will benefit 4 a lot of, particularly, elderly, but also 5 educational tools.6 But at the same time, that is a very 7 useful thing to have, but also there is the 8 dependence on the ubiquity of that. I mean, 9 if that's only available to 85 percent of the 10 United States, that's now 15 percent, that 11 doesn't -- people won't be able to take advantage 12 of that device.13 But also, it doesn't necessarily 14 engender the growth of technology skills that 15 our country needs from its work force. We have 16 an interesting job skills gap right now where 17 there is a shortage of workers qualified to 18 perform technology tools -- technology-related 19 jobs. And yet, we have, you know, 8 percent 20 unemployment and we have, you know, more people 21 out of work now than we have had, you know, in 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 164 most of our -- most of the last generation.1 So, you know, there is a skills gap 2 that also needs to be addressed, which, I think, 3 things like digital literacy training and 4 getting computers and devices into homes, so 5 that, you know -- and into schools will help 6 overcome that skills gap.7 CHAIR BERLYN: I think Mitsi, Lise, 8 Mark.9 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera.10 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, Ken. Ken 11 is in there somewhere. Sorry. Mitsi?12 MS. HERRERA: Sorry. Mitsi 13 Herrera, Cable and Broadband Administrator from 14 Montgomery County.15 I guess what I am interested in is 16 your outcome data and how that is driving you 17 to change things? In Montgomery County, 18 Comcast as part of the NBC Universal merger had 19 to launch the Internet Essentials Program or 20 at least market it, which is a $10 a month service 21 eligible to families who have a child at the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 165 time it was eligible for free meals and now they 1 have expanded it to free and reduced meals.2 They have had a year of experience 3 with that program. In Montgomery County, and 4 so I'm saying this because I -- well, let me 5 just say it. In Montgomery County, there are 6 47,000 children in public schools who are 7 enrolled in free and reduced meals. They 8 thought that that might translate out into 9,700 9 eligible households.10 Of that, after a year, they had 353 11 families apply. They approved 202. And there 12 were 165 that were activated. That is after 13 a year of trying to promote this. They worked 14 somewhat with schools. They had various 15 messages that came out.16 And I'm saying this because we are 17 working with Comcast and we actually had a very 18 good meeting. I think I copied several people 19 here on an agenda in which we brought together 20 people who are working with low-income clients 21 to try to see how to expand that.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 166 And the reason I point it out is 1 because what we are doing is not working. And 2 the reason that -- and the only reason we know 3 that it is not working is because we are actually 4 honest with ourselves about tracking the 5 outcomes of our efforts. And that is spurring 6 us to try to figure out new ways for those things.7 In particular, with that program, 8 we are trying to figure out we have people in 9 phone banks who are willing to set-up in 10 low-income houses, so that you can come down 11 and fill it out. We are trying to figure out 12 a plan of could you have them bring the letter 13 in which they are eligible for the program and 14 Comcast finds a way that they could fax the 15 enrollment form right there, so that there is 16 somebody available to help you fill out the 17 forms.18 And there is lot of different moving 19 parts, but getting back to that, I point this 20 out not because I want to disparage what Comcast 21 is doing, but to say that it's hard and we have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 167 to think differently and figure out how to 1 partner with people who have contacts.2 So Tom, thank you very much for the 3 slides. Those are great slides. But can you 4 focus and talk about what other outcome data 5 are you looking at that helps us figure out what 6 we need to do differently?7 MR. KOUTSKY: We look at the data 8 for our programs. I didn't mention that we have 9 two Broadband Adoption Projects that we are 10 working on, one in Ohio that is focused on, 11 almost exclusively, training. And another one 12 that is working with the Boys and Girls Clubs 13 in Tennessee that is focusing much more on kind 14 of a mentorship and, you know, very targeted 15 towards foster youth families.16 But so, you know, we are starting 17 our own program, so I can only speak about the 18 data. I think Cecilia, you know, does make this 19 great point that as these NTIA programs start 20 to roll-up, we need to analyze that and we need 21 to know facts like that about programs like this.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 168 When you are kind of in an 1 experimentation phase, I think you shouldn't--2 we can be disappointed, you know, in things, 3 but I think we shouldn't be too surprised if 4 certain approaches fail.5 Honestly, you know, I think that 6 it's great that you are working with Comcast 7 to work on that project. You know, frankly, 8 you know, even though I said that cost was the 9 main barrier to entry for families with --10 low-income families with kids, it was still only 11 the main barrier to entry for about 40 percent 12 of those households.13 The other barriers, such as 14 literacy, awareness, relevance, were still 15 there. So your universe of 9,000 households 16 was immediately shrunk to 4,000. You know, if 17 your -- if my numbers are right.18 MS. HERRERA: Yes, and the --19 MR. KOUTSKY: But I'm not defending 20 the program, because I think, you know, myself, 21 I would be not as focused on in making sure we 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 169 only sell this to people that we truly know are 1 low-income. Right? And I think that you can 2 get yourself caught up in that verification and 3 validation and paperwork game to your -- I think 4 that becomes a problem, because it makes the 5 entire program more cumbersome.6 But I do think it is important that 7 if you just have a program that is basically 8 just focused on cost, right, you are saying that 9 I don't care about 60 percent of the problem, 10 basically. I'm going to look at only, you know, 11 the 43 percent of those households.12 So I think that there is part of that 13 going on here, too. But understanding it and 14 trying to devise different ways of reaching that 15 audience, I think, is an important second step.16 MS. HERRERA: Just wait. Are you 17 tracking when they come into your programs, even 18 the non-cost ones?19 MR. KOUTSKY: Oh, yes.20 MS. HERRERA: You track -- if you 21 weren't --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 170 MR. KOUTSKY: We do.1 MS. HERRERA: -- using it before, 2 at the end of the program, are you tracking? 3 Do you now sign up and get it?4 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.5 MS. HERRERA: And do you have that 6 data?7 MR. KOUTSKY: We do for our training 8 programs that we have, which is a little bit 9 easier, because we have in-person training, so 10 we know who the person is and we give them an 11 account. And we kind of, you know, figure out 12 a way to try and reach them a year later.13 We have -- that program has been in 14 place for a year, so we are just now at that 15 point of coming back to people and saying are 16 you still on-line? Our initial -- we do surveys 17 at the conclusion of training to say are you 18 likely to buy broadband now? Are you more 19 likely to buy broadband than you were at the 20 beginning of the training, etcetera?21 Those numbers have become very 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 171 positive. But, you know, part of our evaluation 1 now is to kind of go back and ask those people 2 again, are you still a broadband subscriber or 3 did you ever actually buy that computer you said 4 you were going to buy?5 We also, by focusing on training, 6 tend to end up with more motivated people. 7 People walk into a training class for a reason. 8 They want to do it because they tried to apply 9 for a job a couple of weeks ago and they couldn't 10 figure out how to do it.11 So there is a little bit of selection 12 bias in that group, too, but it is reaching 13 people at the point of need, which I think is 14 important.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Cecilia, real 16 quick. Cecilia can probably answer that, too.17 MS. GARCIA: Yes. I just wanted to 18 say that the Connected Living evaluation process 19 got the baseline information that you are 20 talking about and then did intermediate surveys.21 The interesting thing about them, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 172 it will be this summer, they are going to go 1 back to the residents of the senior housing in 2 their target area who did not partake of 3 anything. And they are going to find -- they 4 want to find out why and see what learnings can 5 come from that.6 They are also looking at price 7 points. They are asking questions like at what 8 level would you be willing to pay to continue 9 this after the subsidy is over? So we are 10 looking for some very interesting data from that 11 this summer.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We are going 13 to move very quickly. Lise, a quick question?14 MS. HAMLIN: This is Lise Hamlin 15 from Hearing Loss Association. Yes, this is 16 quick actually and you may have dealt with this, 17 but it was not clear from what you presented. 18 I noted that you saw -- you tracked 19 how many people with disabilities were there. 20 But from my perspective, people with hearing 21 loss, and I suspect this is true with other 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 173 people with disabilities, when they are --1 especially seniors with disabilities have an 2 inability to get access.3 In other words, you are trying to 4 go to a training program and you think I can't 5 hear what is going on. I can't get access to 6 the information. And I think people with sentry 7 disabilities and other disabilities have the 8 same issue and I would just put that to you as, 9 you know, have you tracked it?10 Do you want -- if you haven't, it's 11 something I think maybe you should track.12 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Lise.14 MS. HAMLIN: Yes.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Ken, a quick 16 question?17 MR. McELDOWNEY: A quick question. 18 Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action. I did not 19 hear much talked about in terms of dicing and 20 slicing in terms of people, color and folks for 21 whom English is not the primary language.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 174 And I'm wondering what is being done 1 both in the survey and also in terms of outreach 2 to those populations?3 MS. CROCKER: I'm just going to 4 answer really quickly. We don't have a lot of 5 time.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, sorry.7 MS. CROCKER: Sorry. We don't have 8 a lot of time. Rick Schadelbauer from NTCA did 9 a really nice Broadband Adoption piece last 10 year, and I would be happy to get a copy to Debra 11 and she can distribute it to the group, that 12 tackles some of those statistics and some of 13 that information as well.14 CHAIR BERLYN: And you have some 15 information on that, so does the Joint Center 16 for Policy and Economic Studies.17 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes. We have a lot 18 of cross-cuts on our website, which is19 connectednation.org/research, and you can 20 actually track -- there is a little button where 21 you can click for low-income minority, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 175 non-native, you know, types, you know.1 MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, I guess the 2 second point was what is being done, in terms 3 of reaching out in language to those 4 populations?5 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.6 MS. GARCIA: Can I just say?7 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.8 MS. GARCIA: Just real quickly, one 9 of the projects that we looked at on May 22 nd 10 was a non-BTOP-funded project in Miami. And 11 the area -- the Alliance for Aging, the Executive 12 Director there decided on his own that he needed 13 to find money to do his own experiment, mainly 14 because low-income communities of color and also 15 non-English speaking residents of senior 16 housing had very strong issues with getting 17 on-line.18 So that project, I think, has a lot 19 of learning from that as well. We will have 20 a report based on our findings available on our 21 website probably next week.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 176 MR. McELDOWNEY: Great. Okay.1 CHAIR BERLYN: I think we are going 2 to have to -- I want to get back to Deborah and 3 Sharon. Dorothy, if we could take your question 4 in writing for our team, unless it's real --5 is it real quick, Dorothy?6 MS. WALT: Well, I just have a short 7 comment or I can hold off, either one.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Short?9 PARTICIPANT: The microphone.10 MS. WALT: I have a short comment 11 or I can hold either way.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we take a short 13 comment? A short comment, Dorothy.14 MS. WALT: Yes, thank you, Debra.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure.16 MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking, 17 Dorothy Walt. The only comment I wanted to make 18 related to seniors is to have an opportunity 19 to receive training on using computers through 20 the National Deaf/Blind Equipment Distribution21 Program, if they are qualified for that program.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 177 They get free equipment and free 1 training. And the trainer comes to their home 2 and trains them. And they also go back for 3 follow-up visits and stuff like that. It 4 depends on each state's policy when they get 5 it set up. I just wanted to make that comment.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.7 MS. WALT: Thank you.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you, 9 Dorothy. That's great information.10 Okay. Thank you, panel, that was 11 really great. Appreciate that. Great data 12 points and I know there is more information 13 on-line at Connected Nation.14 MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.15 CHAIR BERLYN: And also at your 16 website?17 MS. CROCKER: That's frs.org and we 18 have paper and we can send you a PDF copy or 19 if anybody wants more information.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank 21 you so much. Appreciate it.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 178 MS. GARCIA: Thank you.1 MR. KOUTSKY: Thank you.2 (Applause)3 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, that was 4 great. Appreciate it. Oh, yes, thank you. 5 Elizabeth is going to leave some copies of this 6 up here, so you can pick some of these Aging 7 in Place and the Role of Broadband, if you want 8 to pick one up.9 So we have a little bit of time to 10 get back to some questions. We have got about 11 10 minutes, but I do want to get back to some 12 questions, if you can put your mindset back on 13 our previous topic about the Consumer Complaints 14 process.15 So oh, Ed, quick, yes? You're up. 16 Saw it first. Oh, and then Stephen, I'm sorry. 17 I saw yours second. Ed? Give it a go.18 MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme 19 with Call for Action. We actually partner with 20 media outlets around the country to set up 21 consumer help hotlines. So we do have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 179 experience in the intake processes related to 1 consumer complaints and tracking and kind of 2 keeping an eye on that data.3 I had a couple of thoughts and 4 suggestions. We do have a web form that we 5 utilize for consumers to make use of. We tend 6 to choose to classify and categorize the 7 complaints that come in internally. We don't 8 allow consumer self-selection for categories.9 We take the information and our 10 staff and our volunteers review each complaint 11 and then assign it a category. I realized that 12 there is a scaling issue and you guys probably 13 do deal with significantly more than we do, but 14 I think it's important.15 If your goal is consistency and to 16 actually have useful data, consumer 17 self-selection can make that harder to achieve. 18 You know, they are clouded with -- they are 19 upset about what has happened to them. They 20 are angry possibly about this. And it could 21 be that they pick the completely wrong category 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 180 as to what you guys would have as a definition 1 and where that would go and that can lead to 2 some pretty heavily skewed statistical 3 outcomes.4 Another thing that comes to mind is 5 the FTC has a really good set up with the Sentinel 6 Program, in that other organizations can feed 7 into that, if they choose to. So that might 8 be something to look at from a back end, is there 9 a way for other organizations who take 10 communications-related complaints to feed some 11 of their data over to you guys, so that you can 12 get a broader picture and cover a bigger swath 13 necessarily of what comes in to you.14 And just kind of a third tip, one 15 of the things that -- we used to have categories 16 and subcategories and we found it to be very 17 cumbersome, so we did decide to go strictly with 18 kind of broader categories and then a key word, 19 as a second step.20 So our system allows for a category 21 search and a key word. So you can do, for 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 181 instance, you know, wireless and then billing 1 as the key word to pick up all the 2 billing-related or, you know, you could use a 3 different key word if you chose to.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Awesome. Thanks. 5 And hopefully Ed will do something to capture 6 all of this in our follow-up as well. So 7 Stephen. Then raise your hand, let's capture 8 this quickly.9 MR. POCIASK: Yes. I'm Steve 10 Pociask with the American Consumer Institute. 11 Those are good comments, Ed. 12 Okay. You talked a little bit about 13 the tracking, the classification and, you know, 14 sort of accounting for this output of 15 complaints. My question is I really didn't hear 16 and to what extent do you actually account for 17 outcomes, rather than just the, you know, 18 output? 19 I'm talking about the actions. In 20 many cases, you provide information, referrals. 21 Do you account for that? Do you track that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 182 in cases you have intervention? Because to me, 1 that's kind of interesting. It's one thing, 2 we have a big accounting for the output, but 3 what about the outcomes?4 MS. BOWERS: That's a very good 5 question. Thank you. And I appreciate the 6 comments from Consumer Action as well.7 Our Consumer Advocacy Mediation 8 Specialists deal with consumers one-on-one. 9 And each case is assigned to a CAMS. And as 10 the CAMS work through that process, they are 11 constantly updating that record to show how the 12 consumer is being helped.13 There is times that we can't come 14 to a resolution that the consumer is satisfied. 15 But we at least document in the case what the 16 Commission -- what we have done, what the CAMS 17 have done to try to assist that person.18 We are one-on-one. The CAMS are on 19 the front line dealing with the consumer's 20 individual problems. Now, how that sort of 21 shakes out to larger numbers that we produce, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 183 we keep track of disputed amounts, how much money 1 we have actually gotten back for the consumer 2 in their complaint. But we really don't report 3 anything beyond that individual complaint that 4 is more internal to us, if that answers your 5 question?6 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Yes. 7 MS. MARTINEZ: Mia Martinez with 8 the National Asian American Coalition. I just 9 wanted to follow-up on Ken's comments regarding 10 capturing complaint data by race or ethnicity. 11 This would be extremely helpful in developing 12 a more effective targeted outreach to the 13 minority communities.14 And secondly, I checked the App 15 Store a couple of minutes ago and I saw that 16 there is an FCC App and Mobile Broadband test. 17 Perhaps the Bureau can explore possibilities 18 of having an app or developing an app for 19 submitting complaints.20 I also wanted to note that this is 21 one platform that the Federal Trade Commission 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 184 is also looking into at this moment for 1 submission of complaints and fraud. So perhaps 2 the Bureau could explore this option as well.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Very good. And one 4 more question from Lise.5 MS. HAMLIN: Lise, hello? Lise 6 Hamlin.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite.8 MS. HAMLIN: Almost. Okay. We're 9 there.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 11 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin, Hearing 12 Loss Association of America. And thank you for 13 all you are doing and all this work. I will 14 say when I mentioned to a group of different 15 organizations working with people with hearing 16 loss, I had a number of people get back to me 17 and say yes, we hear all the time from consumers 18 who have real difficulty dealing with the forms, 19 so they just give up. They just won't do it.20 And one of the suggestions that I 21 would have is making different levels not 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 185 everything should be -- I know there is formal 1 complaints and informal complaints, but there 2 may even be a less formal using social media, 3 Facebook, even tweeting. 4 I'm sitting in front of my TV and 5 my captions are off. I don't want to go to my 6 computer and fill out a form that will take me 7 half an hour to fill out and then I miss whatever 8 I could get. Probably what I would have done 9 is change the program, because I wouldn't want 10 to have to sit through a program with no 11 captions.12 But at least it gives me an option. 13 I have had a problem right now, here it is, I 14 can't resolve it. What do I do? And then you 15 get that information. And I think that that's 16 an issue.17 Somebody also mentioned about -- I 18 mean, they were talking about different ways 19 of how you get consumers complaining at all, 20 because we know our community doesn't complain 21 a lot. And I think part of our problem also 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 186 is that they -- our community doesn't know that 1 they can complain or who to go to or go to the 2 FCC.3 So even having a real clear bullet 4 list that you can complain about. You know, 5 I know people come to us or consumer 6 organizations say I can't get a hearing aid 7 compatible phone. But we never think to go to 8 the FCC and say, you know, I'm having problems 9 and these are my problems.10 See even having a real clear and 11 doing it without literature, doing it on your 12 website or getting us printed material, doing 13 various ways, I have heard several times today 14 one-size does not fit-all. And I think that's 15 a problem for you, but it's also part of the 16 solution is going tat it through different 17 avenues.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks. Luisa, do 19 you have something real quick?20 MS. LANCETTI: Yes, I do.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, I just saw 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 187 your card.1 MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti, a 2 very quick comment. And that is I think we all 3 agree that the FCC's work in this area is 4 important maybe even increasingly so and the 5 complaint data and the recording of it is very 6 powerful as well. So I think when Paul first 7 spoke, he talked about how if you don't like 8 Dallas, you know, maybe you can go to the FCC 9 and complain about it.10 So I think the FCC itself recognizes 11 and I think it's also important as we begin to 12 look at trends and collect data and numbers, 13 etcetera, that we realize in some cases these 14 are not complaints or actionable in that sense. 15 And so it is very powerful, but it's also 16 important that it be looked at with great kind 17 of sophistication and care because of the 18 powerfulness of the information that is being 19 both collected, analyzed and acted on.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Very good, 21 excellent. Oh, great. Thank you. We are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 188 going to have to move on. You will have to get 1 your question later, Mitsi.2 MS. HERRERA: That's fine.3 CHAIR BERLYN: But thank you both 4 for coming back, for hearing us. We will be 5 discussing this again later when we talk about 6 our process for responding to their questions.7 So thank you both again.8 MS. BRODERSON: Thank you.9 MS. BOWERS: Thank you.10 CHAIR BERLYN: And have a good trip 11 back to Gettysburg.12 MS. BOWERS: Thank you.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.14 (Applause)15 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. I know we are 16 starting to get hungry, which means we have 17 really good attention now. And can I call 18 Robert up to the table?19 MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob?21 MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 189 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob.1 MR. ALDERFER: Rob is good, yes.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob is good. Okay. 3 Rob Alderfer. This is a very important topic. 4 As Commissioner Pai mentioned, Spectrum is real 5 important to consumers. And we are very 6 fortunate to have Rob here with us today with 7 the Incentive Options Team in the Wireless 8 Telecom Bureau. So thank you so much for 9 joining us.10 MR. ALDERFER: Absolutely. Thanks 11 for having me.12 CHAIR BERLYN: And I want to give 13 you as much time as we need for this topic, even 14 though our stomachs will be starting to rumble 15 a bit. So thank you so much.16 MR. ALDERFER: Sure. Thanks for 17 having me, everyone, I really appreciate the 18 opportunity to talk with you today.19 As Debra mentioned, I'm Rob 20 Alderfer. I'm the Chief Data Officer in the 21 Wireless Bureau here at the FCC. I'm also a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 190 member of the Incentive Auctions Task Force, 1 which consists of staff from across the Agency 2 working on this initiative.3 And since my agenda item is entitled 4 "What Consumers Need to Know About Spectrum," 5 I thought what I would do is just talk a little 6 bit about the basics, why the FCC is focused 7 on Spectrum and then dive into some specifics 8 on Incentive Auctions, if that's useful for 9 folks.10 Okay. So what consumers need to 11 know about Spectrum. Well, the first thing they 12 need to know is that they use it frequently, 13 whether it is for Wi-Fi in their home, their 14 mobile phones, watching television with rabbit 15 ears or listening to the radio in their cars, 16 that's all Spectrum.17 And Spectrum really serves a 18 function for a number of wireless services and 19 those services are things that consumers are 20 using more and more. Wireless services are 21 really proliferating in the economy.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 191 And actually, according to CTIA, we 1 have more wireless connections than there are 2 people in the United States, which is a pretty 3 astounding phenomenon. That gives you a sense 4 of the magnitude of the trend.5 And really one of the key growth 6 areas in wireless services has been the growth 7 of wireless broadband. In the last three years, 8 mobile traffic, as a function of wireless 9 broadband growth, has increased over seven 10 times, according to CISCO. And the forecast 11 for the future is that that growth will continue 12 and even accelerate.13 So if the Commission were to just 14 stand pat and do nothing about this trend, it 15 would really strain our Spectrum resources. 16 And so what that would mean for consumers, I 17 think, is higher prices, poorer service and lost 18 opportunities, frankly. So that's why the 19 Commission is so focused on Spectrum.20 The National Broadband Plan 21 outlined a number of strategies to meet consumer 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 192 needs in the area of Spectrum really in three 1 broad categories. One is greater efficiency, 2 essentially squeezing more service out of the 3 Spectrum that we have. Sharing Spectrum, so 4 making sure that we really have services that 5 are compatible with each other doing what they 6 can to share Spectrum. And also reallocation 7 of Spectrum from legacy uses to new flexible 8 uses to allow the market to really meet consumer 9 needs.10 And I'm really going to be talking 11 about that third category today, reallocation 12 of Spectrum. The Broadband Plan outlined a 13 number of potential bands that could be 14 candidates for reallocation to meet consumer 15 needs. They really stretch both from stuff that 16 the FCC manages across to what the Commerce 17 Department and NTIA manages.18 And one of those was the broadcast 19 television band and that's where Incentive 20 Auctions comes in. So the Broadband Plan 21 recommended that the FCC, essentially, use a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 193 market-based process, known as Incentive 1 Auctions, to, essentially, enable part of the 2 Spectrum to be used for new wireless services.3 And so that's what I'm going to be 4 focusing a little bit more on today.5 And so it's helpful just to start 6 with a little bit about what Incentive Auctions 7 are. And at their core, they are really a 8 market-based means of making Spectrum available 9 for new services through a market-based process 10 while capturing value for the public and for 11 consumers.12 And as I said, they were featured 13 in the National Broadband Plan, but it's 14 actually something that economists have been 15 talking about for some time before that. And 16 they were also featured and supported in the 17 President's Executive Memorandum on Spectrum 18 in November 2010 and were most recently 19 authorized by Congress in February of this year.20 So the key mechanism in the 21 Incentive Auction process is the Commission's 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 194 ability to share financial incentives with 1 incumbent license holders, Spectrum license 2 holders in return for relinquishing some or all 3 of their Spectrum rights back to the Commission 4 for repurposing to new services. So that's 5 something new. That's something that the 6 Commission hasn't done before.7 And really what it does and why it's 8 good is it really aligns the interests of all 9 interested parties to the benefit of meeting 10 consumer needs for Spectrum. So incumbent 11 licensees, new licensees, consumers and the 12 Government can all benefit through this process.13 So I'll talk a little bit about what 14 Congress directed us to do in February of this 15 year. Actually, the Middle Class Tax Relief 16 and Job Creation Act of 2012, Title 6 of that 17 law, had a number of provisions on Spectrum, 18 one of which was authorizing the Commission to 19 conduct Incentive Auctions. That was in ' 6402, 20 for those of you that are interested in looking 21 up the bill.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 195 And, essentially, the key provision 1 in 6402 was that authority for the Commission 2 to share auction proceeds with incumbent 3 licensees in return for their relinquishing 4 Spectrum back to the Commission. So that's 5 general authority and that's something that was 6 authorized for a number of years for the 7 Commission to use at its discretion.8 Then the following section, ' 6403, 9 dealt specifically with the broadcast 10 television band. It had several provisions for 11 how the Commission should implement Incentive 12 Auctions in the context of Broadcast Spectrum, 13 including a number of protections for 14 over-the-air television viewers and 15 broadcasters.16 One of the things that section did 17 was outline a number of different ways that 18 broadcast television stations could relinquish 19 Spectrum back to the FCC.20 So one way, as you might expect, is 21 to return a license for a full 6 megahertz22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 196 channel, but that's not the only way. Stations 1 might also elect to move from, what's called, 2 the UHF band to the VHF band, so the high channels 3 to the low channels. The high channels being 4 a little more useful for wireless broadband. 5 That's another option that is available to --6 that we expect will be available to broadcasters 7 when we get to implementation of Incentive 8 Auctions.9 And also, the third option that was 10 outlined in the statute was channel sharing. 11 So as a function of digital broadcast 12 technology, more than one broadcast station can 13 actually use a 6 megahertz channel. So 14 essentially what that means, especially those 15 two latter options, they are available to 16 broadcasters to continue their over-the-air 17 broadcast operations while relinquishing some 18 Spectrum back to the FCC in return for financial 19 incentives.20 So in that regard, we really think 21 there are win-win opportunities here that will 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 197 result not just in repurposing Spectrum for 1 wireless services, but also strengthening the 2 broadcast sector and providing new business 3 options to broadcasters.4 And in the same regard, if you think 5 about relinquishing a full 6 megahertz channel, 6 there are many station groups out there that 7 may wish to sort of consolidate their operations 8 and strengthen their business going forward. 9 And this is another way to do that through the 10 Incentive Auction.11 So a couple of other things that '12 6403 did in addition to providing these options 13 for broadcasters, it, essentially, made clear 14 that stations won't be forced to relinquish 15 their rights. So this is a voluntary process. 16 Stations will have the discretion to decide 17 which options works best for them and set the 18 price at which they want to accept those options.19 And if they don't want to 20 participate, they don't have to. 21 Now, we do expect that there will 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 198 be a realignment of the band as part of this 1 process as we move a portion of the Broadcast 2 Television Spectrum to wireless services. The 3 band will need to be realigned to make the 4 Spectrum useful for wireless services.5 And so, essentially, what that will 6 mean is a new channel plan for television 7 stations. And there may be some costs involved 8 in that for broadcast stations and under the 9 law, those costs would be covered as part of 10 the auction proceeds would be used to pay for 11 that.12 And one important thing to keep in 13 mind here through this repacking process is that 14 it's something that is a little bit different 15 from the Digital Television Transition, in that 16 consumers are already digital-ready.17 So consumers have set-top boxes and 18 it's -- we don't expect that all stations will 19 be affected by the repacking process, so it's 20 going to be more limited in scope, we think. 21 And it will be a simple matter, we think, of 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 199 probably rescanning boxes for over-the-air 1 viewers that may be affected by the repacking. 2 And we don't expect that to e the full 3 population of over-the-air viewers.4 And, of course, television viewers 5 that subscribe to cable, satellite or watch TV 6 over the Internet won't be affected at all.7 So a little bit on what we have done 8 to date at the staff level to implement Incentive 9 Auctions. Perhaps one of the most fundamental 10 things we have done is get the people in place 11 to do the work, and that's the Incentive 12 Auctions' Task Force.13 You may know Gary Epstein, who is 14 the Chair of the Task Force, he sends his regrets 15 that he couldn't be here today, but he really 16 does view this as a key consumer initiative for 17 the Commission. And he has really compiled a 18 team from across the Agency to work on this 19 issue.20 And we have also -- to help us in 21 this endeavor, retained a number of economic 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 200 experts that specialize in auction design. 1 Because this is a new novel program, a lot of 2 different facets to it, we want to make sure 3 we are getting the best advice from the best 4 people out there.5 And so we have a team of economists, 6 that I would be remiss if I didn't mention they 7 are prize-winning economists, that are at 8 Stanford and University of Maryland and they 9 are advising the Commission on auction design 10 and the economic aspects of this.11 Another thing the Commission has 12 done recently back in the April meeting, the 13 Commission adopted an order that lays the 14 regulatory framework, some of the groundwork 15 for channel sharing. And, essentially, what 16 it did was, you know, adopt some basic parameters 17 for channel sharing that should compliment the 18 Incentive Auction when we move to implement 19 that. It doesn't really prejudge how channel 20 sharing would work within the context of 21 Incentive Auctions, but just sort of sets the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 201 framework for it.1 Then there was actually a channel 2 sharing workshop in May, last month, two months 3 ago, at this point, in which we gathered the 4 industry together to talk about some of the 5 practical aspects of channel sharing. And we 6 will have more workshops and development. We 7 really do view public participation and outreach 8 as a key piece of this initiative.9 And as we move forward, we are really 10 in the early stages right now. We are in what 11 I would call sort of the technical stage, in 12 which we are really focusing on the sort of 13 economic aspects and the engineering aspects 14 of this initiative and making sure that we have 15 our experts thinking about the key issues. 16 And that will inform a lot of the 17 policy that will be coming through the 18 rulemaking process.19 And as I said, we view outreach as 20 a key component of this. And so it's certainly 21 a timely discussion for the Consumer Advisory22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 202 Committee and we certainly look forward to your 1 input.2 I can talk more about the different 3 piece parts of Incentive Auctions, if folks are 4 interested in hearing about that?5 But just a few things to keep in mind 6 that I would like to really kind of reiterate. 7 First, the amount of Spectrum that is 8 repurposed out of the television bands for new 9 services will be a function of the voluntary 10 participation of broadcasters.11 And it really -- and it being a 12 market-based process, we view it as being a 13 fairly consumer-friendly way to repurpose 14 Spectrum, inasmuch as it's, essentially, market 15 actors making the decision on Spectrum 16 repurposing and they should be certainly 17 responsive to their customers.18 As I said, there are several options 19 for broadcasters to relinquish Spectrum. 20 Returning the full 6 megahertz channel sharing 21 and moving from a UHF channel to a VHF channel. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 203 These will all be teed up for the Commission 1 to consider in the rulemaking later this year. 2 But that's what the statute envisioned.3 The statute also envisions that 4 there is no involuntary relinquishment of 5 Spectrum. And stations that don't participate 6 and don't want to relinquish Spectrum will be 7 compensated for any costs involved in the 8 repacking and realignment process that will come 9 as part of the Incentive Auctions.10 And really, we think that this whole 11 initiative is a win-win for consumers of both 12 the wireless and broadcast sectors. And so, 13 as I said, we are very early on in the process 14 and we would like to get your input on what you 15 think it would take to make this initiative a 16 success.17 And I can leave it there.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much, 19 Rob. We do have time for some questions. I 20 see Ann's card up. Go ahead, Ann.21 MS. BOBECK: Hi, I'm Ann Bobeck from 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 204 the National Association of Broadcasters. I 1 just wanted to say thank you, Rob. Thank you 2 to Chairman Genachowski and his team. I know 3 that this has been a tremendous undertaking and 4 the number of staff involved to ensure that the 5 Incentive Auctions run smoothly.6 And that we very much look forward 7 to the upcoming June 25 th Workshop on TV 8 Broadcaster, the Fund Workshop. I know that 9 my boss, Jane Mago, is looking forward to 10 participating in that was well. And I think 11 those are very helpful, you know, they are 12 broadcast over the web for all of the -- for 13 all of us and members of the CAC to participate 14 in as viewers and as consumers as well.15 So I encourage all of us to tune in 16 to the upcoming workshops. I know that the 17 Commission has a series of workshops throughout 18 the summer and the fall and I think that would 19 help us kind of guide and help inform from a 20 consumer perspective the challenges associated 21 with the Spectrum allocation as it affects 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 205 viewers of television.1 So thank you very much for inviting 2 consumer participation and we look forward to 3 a robust discussion, particularly in the fall 4 as the rulemaking comes out.5 MR. ALDERFER: Thanks for the plug 6 on the workshops.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone else 8 have a question?9 MR. UMANSKY: Just very, very 10 brief.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?12 MR. UMANSKY: Hi, I'm Barry Umansky 13 with the Digital Policy Institute and I Chair 14 the meet -- the working group. And certainly 15 this is -- the issues you talked about a moment 16 ago are certainly core interest of our immediate 17 working group. We have addressed them in 18 recommendations. And I think, listening to 19 your discussion, we are pretty much all on the 20 same page and we hope it's a very successful 21 process and we will certainly be tuning in. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 206 Thank you.1 MR. ALDERFER: Great. Thank you.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott? Raise your 3 hand, Scott, so they can see you back there.4 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann with 5 CTIA. I just wanted to add my thanks as well. 6 We are really appreciative. Can you hear me 7 yet?8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I can hear on 9 that one.10 MR. BERGMANN: Okay. Good. I 11 just want to add my word of thanks as well to 12 -- for all the work that the FCC has done to 13 try to develop this process of an Incentive 14 Auction, recognizing the need to meet rising 15 consumer demand for wireless services. And 16 there is a lot of, you know, good record that 17 the FCC has helped develop about the consumer 18 benefits of mobile broadband services.19 So we are looking forward to working 20 with you all as well, too, and it is a very 21 technical exercise that the FCC is about to go 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 207 through. So sort of what the Consumer Advisory 1 Committee had on, we appreciate your focus on 2 how consumers stand to benefit from going 3 through this process. So thanks for that, Rob.4 MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks, 5 Scott.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Rob, I'm going to ask 7 this question just so that everybody can get 8 a feel for this. And that's the timing 9 question.10 So when does the FCC anticipate the 11 actual completion of the repacking process, so 12 that the auctions would actually take place on 13 the other end?14 MR. ALDERFER: So the short answer 15 is we don't know. But I'll give you the longer 16 answer, too. So what we are working toward now, 17 what the Chairman has said, is that we would 18 like to have a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking 19 developed or a series of them in the fall of 20 this year.21 That will layout some of the staff's 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 208 thinking and the Commission's thinking on this 1 process. And from there, it becomes a function 2 that really kicks off the public engagement 3 process.4 And so it's a little bit hard to 5 predict and I certainly wouldn't want to 6 prejudge what we would hear from people through 7 that process. I will say that we do view the 8 need for Spectrum as an urgent one and so we 9 are keeping that in mind.10 But in terms of how it is all going 11 to come together, I think we are really going 12 to need everyone's input through the rulemaking 13 process to know that.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right. 15 Well, thank you very much. We greatly 16 appreciate your coming down here.17 MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.19 MR. ALDERFER: Thank you.20 (Applause)21 CHAIR BERLYN: Lunch is served and 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 209 we will reconvene at about 1:00. We did it. 1 We are back on schedule.2 (Whereupon, the meeting was 3 recessed at 12:25 p.m. to reconvene at 1:11 p.m. 4 this same day.)5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 210 A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N1 1:11 p.m.2 CHAIR BERLYN: So this next session 3 is brought to you by Ed Bartholme and myself. 4 We have a topic on your agenda, as you see, 5 to have a discussion about the FCC's website. 6 And we did want to get some FCC staff to talk 7 with us about this topic and we still hope to 8 do that.9 The scheduling didn't work out for 10 that, at this particular meeting, but hopefully 11 in the future we will do that.12 But we do know that it would be 13 helpful for the FCC staff to perhaps have some 14 questions in advance that we might have about 15 the FCC website.16 Now, just as some background, the 17 Consumer Working Group did discuss the FCC's 18 website a couple of times at various working 19 group meetings and we decided that it would be 20 a good topic to present to the full CAC for 21 discussion.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 211 So I'm going to turn it over to Ed 1 and we are going to have the capability to show 2 the website on the screen and go through it with 3 all of you. And the idea here is to talk about 4 the FCC's website as a useful instrument for 5 general consuming public as well as for those 6 of us who use the FCC website on a regular basis, 7 but also as representatives of the consumer 8 populations that we work with.9 So, Ed, I'll turn it over to you.10 MR. BARTHOLME: So I --11 CHAIR BERLYN: And there we go.12 MR. BARTHOLME: We talked about 13 this a little bit at one of the previous meetings 14 and there didn't seem to be a lack of interest 15 from anyone in the room, as it pertains to the 16 website, so we thought it would be a good idea 17 to kind of all share some thoughts and insight 18 on it. Like Debbie said, our goal was to have 19 a speaker, but it didn't coincide for this 20 meeting.21 And we know that our time is short, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 212 so to speak, because we have one meeting left. 1 So we were hoping to get together a list of 2 advance questions to get that over to someone 3 in the Commission who could then address us on 4 those topics.5 So if anybody wants to start by 6 firing off some suggestions or things that you 7 see or have thought about or have questions, 8 I know one of the big things that we initially 9 looked at is we all use the FCC's website in 10 probably a somewhat different capacity than what 11 we would imagine the typical consumer going to 12 the FCC's website does.13 We look specifically for Notices of 14 Rulemaking and different dockets and different 15 things like that. We have also heard 16 anecdotally that most of the people in the room, 17 and I won't make you raise your hand, go to the 18 website and first click on where is the old 19 website and how do I get there, because that's 20 how I know how to get around things. And that 21 has been left very prominently displayed on the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 213 new website.1 So knowing all of that about 2 ourselves, we were wondering how do we translate 3 that to what your typical consumer is actually 4 going here and looking to find and do they find 5 it more beneficial than some of us who are used 6 to the old familiar might find it?7 So that's kind of the direction 8 where the dialogue started. And then as we --9 we had a call about this. As we started to kind 10 of drill down, we highlighted some things. I 11 want to open it up to you guys first and then 12 we can -- I'll share some of the things that 13 we saw as well to kind of prod along the 14 conversation, if there is a lull.15 So I turn it over to you. I'll take 16 copious notes and make sure that everybody sees 17 this and get a copy. Right, yes, also the 18 reporter. The court reporter, yes.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we flash the 20 website back up on the screen? There. There 21 we go.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 214 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 1 CHAIR BERLYN: Ann?2 MR. BARTHOLME: Ann, you had --3 MS. BOBECK: Hi, it's Ann Bobeck 4 from NAB. One of the things that I always 5 thought would be the simplest button on the home 6 page is if there was a consumer button for 7 consumers or for the public, just in general.8 I know that as a petitioner, we are 9 fairly well-versed in both the old and slowly 10 migrating to the new FCC's website. But if I 11 were a consumer, even today coming to the new 12 FCC's website, there is a lot of information, 13 but it's hard, it's difficult to navigate.14 And if there were just a consumer's 15 click here button and then sort of had a consumer 16 generated sort of home page, I think, you know, 17 there is take action at the top, but that's kind 18 of buried at the top. It's sort of, you know, 19 difficult. There is a lot of quick links. 20 There is bureaus. But as a consumer, I might 21 not know who those bureaus are or really what 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 215 they do.1 But I think that that might just be 2 a starting point.3 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. So kind of 4 along the lines of the top navigation bar, stick 5 one up there that just says consumer, so that 6 that way --7 MS. BOBECK: Yes.8 MR. BARTHOLME: -- it's readily and 9 exactly where it --10 MS. BOBECK: Yes, for consumers, 11 yes.12 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.13 MS. BOBECK: I'm just trying to 14 think if I were visiting the FCC for the first 15 time, I would have no idea what all this 16 information meant.17 MR. BARTHOLME: Sure.18 MS. BOBECK: For the average bear.19 MR. BARTHOLME: Definitely. 20 Anyone else have any opening shots or questions?21 MS. HAMLIN: Yes.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 216 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise Hamlin?1 MS. HAMLIN: Am I coming through?2 CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite yet.3 MS. HAMLIN: Hello?4 CHAIR BERLYN: There you go.5 MS. HAMLIN: There I am. Okay. 6 One of the things that -- recently, I was putting 7 together a PowerPoint for a presentation, so 8 I wasn't specifically looking for proceedings. 9 I was looking like somebody who might be 10 searching for information.11 And what I found was if I went out 12 of the site and Googled what I wanted, FCC and 13 then whatever the topic was, it was much easier 14 to find information than if I went into the site 15 and went to the search engine on the site. I 16 couldn't find it.17 And you are right about the links, 18 too. Okay, I'll get to a page, let's talk about 19 captioning and then it will say okay, other 20 things to talk about. They would never take 21 me where I wanted to go.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 217 So I'm not the tech person here, but 1 it sounds like to me there is a search engine 2 problem as well as -- two problems. 3 Organizational problem and maybe the consumer 4 page might be a way to get around that. But 5 there is also how do I find this? It's really 6 difficult to find what you are looking for.7 CHAIR BERLYN: Stephanie?8 MR. BARTHOLME: Stephanie?9 MS. PODEY: Stephanie Podey from 10 NCTA. It seems like they tried to organize it 11 using this encyclopedia concept and I've just 12 found that a lot of the information I'm looking 13 for winds up being there, which I find through 14 a Google search. And it's just if it's 15 confusing for us, I'm sure it's terrible for 16 consumers.17 MR. BARTHOLME: Dorothy, did you--18 MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking. It 19 has been a long time since I looked at the 20 webpage. I don't remember if this was on there 21 or not. If it isn't, I would suggest you add 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 218 to it.1 Do you have a person assigning the 2 information, rather than -- in other words, some 3 deaf people whose first language is ASL and they 4 would prefer to read information through an ASL 5 interpreter. So I'm wondering if that's on the 6 website? If not, you might want to add that. 7 Thank you.8 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin again. 9 The other thing that I remember finding on this 10 is that some pages were easily printable and 11 other pages were not. And it would be -- most 12 of the information you want to be able to 13 download easily and print out. So I would 14 suggest that that be consistent.15 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 16 CHAIR BERLYN: Can I just pose a 17 general question for anyone in the room? Does 18 anyone in the room have any firsthand knowledge 19 about any consumer use of the website? Does 20 anyone know about consumers using this website?21 PARTICIPANT: No.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 219 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 1 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, 2 Montgomery County. I have a Consumer Advisory 3 Commission and, by and large, the report has 4 been that they really don't know where to find 5 anything on the site.6 And one thing that used to happen, 7 the Media Bureau used to have a telephone 8 directory that was issue-based. So if this was 9 my issue, this is the person to call or who is 10 in charge. So that's lacking on this one. It 11 takes -- before it was one step to search people, 12 if you knew who to search for.13 Now, it's a couple steps. But more 14 importantly, I don't know who is handling what. 15 And I say even for practitioners that's true, 16 because there is a lot of change-over, people 17 who used to be there, so who is the new person 18 who handles that?19 The other thing overall I would say 20 is that it's very difficult to find any of the 21 reports, which I find ironic, because I feel 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 220 like the FCC spends a lot of time issuing 1 reports. 2 Before, they used to have a way in 3 which the reports and the ones that they have 4 annually were kind of listed and then it would 5 list, you know, whatever the most current year 6 was along with all the back ones. And that has 7 just kind of disappeared into places. In a lot 8 of the information that they -- I was just 9 looking through while we were talking, so like, 10 for example, the Media Bureau, if you go on one 11 section and it asks for the open proceeding, 12 it will list that there is an open proceeding 13 about closed captioning.14 But if I go to the subject and look 15 at closed captioning, it provides some kind of 16 evergreen information, but no link to the fact 17 that there is any active proceeding in this area.18 So if I'm a consumer, I can't go in 19 by the subject, which is the thing I'm most 20 likely to be familiar with, and look to find 21 out what is the FCC doing right now on closed 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 221 captioning.1 MR. BARTHOLME: Ann?2 MS. BOBECK: Ann Bobeck, NAB again. 3 Mitsi, if you would go to the transition, the 4 old FCC website, you go to the Media Bureau, 5 you can still see the subject matter expert list. 6 So there is the --7 MS. HAMLIN: I can't hear you.8 MS. BOBECK: The subject matter 9 expert list for the Media Bureau still is in 10 the FCC's website. It's just easier to access 11 through the old -- the transition website.12 MS. HAMLIN: Right. But my -- what 13 my concern is I feel like at some point, they 14 are going to stop supporting the old website.15 MS. BOBECK: Right.16 MS. HAMLIN: I mean, it depends how 17 long we keep complaining, but --18 CHAIR BERLYN: That's one of the 19 questions we don't have the answer to.20 MS. BOBECK: Right.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Is how long that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 222 transition button will still be there.1 MS. HERRERA: Right. What would be 2 also beneficial, I think, that we make as a 3 recommendation or request is that that would 4 be certainly something that would be helpful 5 in all the bureaus to have a subject matter 6 expert list.7 So if you had a question on CGB, who 8 is the contact person that I would need to be 9 to -- to go to if I have a complaint? Then I 10 need to go to the Enforcement Bureau, who? 11 Which question should I direct to what call 12 centers? There could be some troubleshooting 13 or experts that they could list.14 I think that that would be helpful. 15 Certainly, you know, the 8 th Floor Advisors are 16 fairly easy to find, because they are on the 17 home page and the Commissioners. But I think 18 that's something that they could expand. It's 19 just the Media Bureau, I think, was the first 20 and being the most established bureaus.21 But that could be helpful beyond one 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 223 bureau.1 MR. BARTHOLME: Barry?2 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, just three quick 3 things. I want to agree with Ann. I think the 4 Media Bureau is a good model for how to do this 5 right to link experts with topics and so forth.6 Also, I have been trying to use a 7 variety of other agencies website, some federal 8 some state, and by comparison, I think the FCC 9 has done a pretty darn good job. I'll have to 10 admit though that the instant after I go to 11 fcc.gov, I do click the old one. 12 And the one beef I have with the old13 one, it's a new beef, when you looked at the 14 old site, the upper left has a search engine, 15 search the FCC. You fill in your key word hit 16 it and it goes to another search the FCC and 17 you've got to fill it in again. I'm sure that 18 can be cured.19 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 20 MR. UMANSKY: End of comment.21 MR. BARTHOLME: So a couple other 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 224 things that we had down to bring up and discuss 1 were, you know, how long is the old site going 2 to be there as a transition or is it going to 3 somehow kind of be buried back into a permanent 4 fixture that you just have to do a couple hoops 5 to jump through to access it? You know, will 6 it always say transition.fcc.gov?7 Some other concerns that we had 8 briefly discussed are kind of the usability 9 aspect of the website, not just from a I'm 10 looking for a specific piece of information and 11 it's hard to find, but when I show up and it 12 is dark blue on black text for different -- you 13 know, like a really good one, I feel like if 14 you could show the computer screen on the screen?15 Up here in the top right corner, it 16 has got display options in dark blue on black. 17 And for somebody who actually would like to 18 change the appearance, I don't think they are 19 ever going to stumble upon the display options.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Hum.21 MR. BARTHOLME: One of the things 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 225 that came up in our call was also the 1 accessibility of the site in different 2 languages. You know, the FCC issues the ability 3 to broadcast in other languages in our country. 4 And, obviously, consumers in our country 5 interact with the FCC sometimes in other 6 languages.7 There is a little flag up in the top 8 right corner. Most of us didn't even realize 9 that there was any way to get the site into 10 another language until Art Neill pointed out 11 that there is, in fact, a flag in the corner 12 and that if you do click on that flag-- maybe 13 I'm not clicking correctly here.14 Anyway, if you do click on the flag, 15 it does give you the ability to bring it up in 16 Spanish. As soon as you get it to come up in 17 Spanish, it basically looks like the old website 18 and it's not a translation of the existing 19 website. It's more of a here is a list of all 20 the Spanish resources that we have, so that you 21 can make use of them.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 226 And, obviously, we would like to see 1 it be that you would actually translate the site, 2 so that the Spanish-speaking user or people in 3 another language had the same experience and 4 the same interaction, not just a list of here 5 is what we have in Spanish that you can make 6 use of potentially. Ken?7 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes, I do not know 8 of any website that uses a flag to indicate other 9 languages. I mean, that is just -- I mean, much 10 less something that is an 1/8 of an inch high, 11 I'm not even sure what flag it is. I mean, do 12 you have any idea what flag it is?13 MR. BARTHOLME: It is the American 14 Flag that is there.15 MR. McELDOWNEY: But I mean, so that 16 --17 MR. BARTHOLME: But that --18 MR. McELDOWNEY: Would anyone, 19 would any consumer who is saying oh, I want 20 something in Chinese, I'm going to click on the 21 American Flag? I mean, it's just -- give me 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 227 a break.1 MR. BARTHOLME: No. I am guessing 2 that it's actually a more common European model 3 where you click on the Great Britain flag or 4 the Spain flag to get the --5 CHAIR BERLYN: Right, right.6 MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, no. I mean, 7 Microsoft does this and it is culturally 8 insulting, because for Spanish, they put the 9 flag of Spain.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.11 MR. McELDOWNEY: Which really goes 12 over big in Mexico I'm sure.13 MR. BARTHOLME: No, no, and that's 14 what I'm saying. That's where I think it comes 15 from. I don't necessarily know that that 16 translates the best for use in this environment.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.18 MR. BARTHOLME: Julie?19 MR. McELDOWNEY: On the other hand, 20 the flag was probably made in China. Sorry.21 MS. KEARNEY: It's Julie Kearney 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 228 from CEA. With all due respect, I think we are 1 really nit-picking here. And I think in terms 2 of translation, which I think there can be some 3 value, so for those of us practitioners, many 4 of us in the room, we really -- a translation 5 of regulations could be potentially perilous, 6 I think, to a lot of people.7 So I think we need to just be careful 8 getting as far down into the weeds. I think 9 the FCC has done a fabulous job with the site. 10 I will admit I do find the site difficult to 11 navigate, but, you know, I have my personal 12 preferences. And actually, I try not to go back 13 to the old site. I try to like, you know, hang 14 in there, so I can get used to the new site.15 But, you know, I just warn against 16 getting too nit-picky here.17 MR. BARTHOLME: If I could just 18 respond to that, Julie. I don't think that our 19 intent or our goal is to, obviously, be 20 excessively nit-picky. I think that part of 21 what we were presented with when the discussion 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 229 about the new website first came about was, this 1 is a tool for outreach.2 MS. KEARNEY: Right.3 MR. BARTHOLME: This is a way for 4 the Commission --5 MS. KEARNEY: Right.6 MR. BARTHOLME: -- to interact with 7 the public.8 MS. KEARNEY: Um-hum.9 MR. BARTHOLME: And I think that the 10 Commission has to realize that when it comes 11 to having an interface in another language, it 12 has to be the same or the people who communicate 13 in that language are going to know that the same 14 attention isn't being given to them as a 15 constituent as someone who has English as their 16 primary language.17 So I realize that the sensibilities 18 and the practicality of translating a rulemaking 19 procedure are probably not there --20 MS. KEARNEY: Yes.21 MR. BARTHOLME: -- as a landing page 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 230 where it is instructing you with how to interact 1 with the FCC or how to file your complaint with 2 the FCC.3 Those things should be made 4 accessible to everyone. And I think that is 5 the perspective that we are discussing.6 MS. KEARNEY: Okay. 7 MR. BARTHOLME: The language issue 8 from, not necessarily, you know, can you do every 9 single thing and make sure that it is coming 10 across that way.11 MS. KEARNEY: Yes.12 MR. BARTHOLME: Mitsi?13 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera. It 14 may be helpful if somebody explained or put in 15 writing what the logic is behind the site 16 reorganization. So, you know, is the idea that 17 we group things by topic? And so if you are 18 looking for it, you search by topic and then 19 you find something.20 But there is, obviously, some scheme 21 they picked and it's just not really apparent. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 231 And if you knew that, then maybe it would make 1 it easier to navigate.2 It's also -- you know, like I looked 3 and you click on -- there used to be -- when 4 we first had our first meeting, there was some 5 portion of this site in which people could vote 6 on things they liked or things they wanted to 7 see and that just sort of has disappeared. So 8 I don't know if -- what happened there.9 And then it also seems like there 10 is a lot of stuff that is not organized by subject 11 or topic. It's just kind of thrown out there. 12 So it's either just chronologically what we 13 had, the most current thing and it relies on 14 a lot of searching. And I'm concerned that if 15 you don't know the right search term, it won't 16 come up.17 So if you just made it -- if you made 18 it a little easier like if it is an encyclopedia 19 and I open up on this topic, here is a list of 20 the six things in that topic, as well as a search 21 feature.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 232 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes. Yes, and I am 1 kind of jumping off from that point. I think 2 that we can all agree, at least I would hope 3 we all agree, that visually it's a much more 4 interesting website to visit.5 The question is how do we get the 6 usability and the consumer interaction to the 7 point where it still has the same accessibility 8 of information and organization and those sorts 9 of things? Does anybody else have any comments, 10 questions?11 CHAIR BERLYN: And I think we 12 certainly can continue to take questions and 13 thoughts that you have. The idea here is to 14 develop some questions and ideas that we can 15 pass on to the website folks here and continue 16 the dialogue.17 So this has been really helpful. 18 Thank you all. This is great. So thanks and 19 thanks, Ed, for walking us through some of this 20 on the screen.21 Very good. Okay. So we just need 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 233 two minutes for setup and then we will start 1 our next presentation.2 So our next topic is one that I 3 believe either at our last meeting or in a 4 working group, was one that CAC Members wanted 5 to have addressed at our next meeting. And so 6 we -- Scott was able to have James Bird, Senior 7 Attorney, join us with the Office of General 8 Counsel, Head of Transactions Team, to share 9 with us the "After the Merger," that's the topic 10 here of our discussion, to talk about sort of 11 what happens after a merger.12 But in this case, so you're going 13 to talk about some specific site, I believe, 14 of a particular merger. And what happens to 15 some of the conditions and that's, I know, of 16 interest to many folks around the room.17 So thank you very much for coming 18 today and joining us. Thank you.19 MR. BIRD: Yes, thank you. 20 Actually, I'm planning to give a more general 21 -- I will raise examples from particular 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 234 mergers.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Good.2 MR. BIRD: But I think it is -- as 3 an overall view, it's important to understand. 4 First, thank you very much for inviting me and 5 giving me an opportunity to share with you some 6 ideas about how we approach what happens after 7 a merger has been approved by the FCC.8 What I would like to do in broad 9 outline, first, as a disclaimer, I'm speaking 10 here -- these are my personal views. These have 11 not been approved by the Commission. But I do 12 have about 12 years experience working on merger 13 reviews and their aftermath at the Agency.14 What I would like to cover is, first, 15 a brief explanation of the FCC's role in 16 reviewing merger applications here and, in 17 particular, the standard that we apply and the 18 role of conditions that come out of that review. 19 And then look at some of the different types 20 of merger conditions, because that affects how 21 they can be enforced and monitored.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 235 And then look at the ways the 1 conditions are enforced. And then also look 2 at the way the compliance with conditions as 3 monitored and also the effectiveness of the 4 conditions as monitored. And finally end up 5 with the question of how do you modify existing 6 merger conditions?7 So first, the FCC's authority to 8 review applications for -- that relate to 9 mergers -- you want that a little closer?10 Okay. The FCC's authority in most 11 -- the one we rely on primarily is our authority 12 to review transfers of licenses, transfers and 13 assignments of licenses or authorizations that 14 are granted by the Agency.15 And the standard of review that we 16 apply is is it in the public interest? This 17 is under ' 214 in Title 2 of the Act, and ' 310(d) 18 in Title 3.19 The public interest standard has a 20 couple components. A very important one is does 21 it comply with the Act itself and the rules that 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 236 are issued under the Act?1 And if it passes that hurdle, then 2 the second thing we look at is what are the 3 potential benefits that could arise from this 4 combination, this transfer? And then we look 5 at what are the potential harms that might arise 6 and we balance the two. And if the benefits 7 outweigh the harms, then we approve the 8 transfer.9 There are three possible outcomes 10 generally. One, we can approve it. Two, we 11 can approve it with conditions. And three, if 12 we can't do either of those, then we designate 13 it for an administrative hearing before an 14 Administrative Law Judge where all the facts 15 will be subject to courtroom trial-type 16 procedures.17 So the role of merger conditions in 18 this process is generally twofold. One is a 19 merger condition will help mitigate potential 20 harms. And the other is it can substantiate 21 claimed benefits.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 237 So that if we get past the first 1 stage, it complies with the statute and rules. 2 We are in the second stage. We are balancing 3 harms and benefits. The merger condition can 4 affect that balance. You know, we say if we--5 without this condition, we might not approve 6 it, but if we can mitigate the harms with 7 conditions or substantiate benefits, then it8 will be allowed. So those are the roles that 9 the conditions play. It's fairly important in 10 the Commission's consideration.11 There are two general types of 12 merger conditions. One are structural 13 conditions. That's like these are often 14 applied in a horizontal merger where you will 15 have two companies that are coming together and 16 decreasing, potentially decreasing, the level 17 of competition in a market.18 One of the things that can be done 19 is you can look over all the markets these 20 companies are involved with. What we took as 21 an example, when Verizon purchased AllTel, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 238 Verizon Wireless purchased AllTel, that was two 1 big wireless companies and in some parts of the 2 country that was fine. There was not much 3 overlap. In other parts there was a lot of 4 overlap.5 And so a structural change is nice 6 in many ways. A one time change. You say 7 divest one or the other where you overlap. So 8 we preserve the existing level of competition.9 The other kind of a condition is a 10 behavioral or conduct condition where the 11 applicants are told to do something. This 12 creates an obligation on them that they did not 13 have before that will either mitigate a harm 14 or affirm a benefit.15 And here, there is a much greater 16 variety. It's not just divesting. It can be 17 we would like you to do the following things. 18 We would like you to provide the following 19 services to confirm that you are going to do 20 a benefit.21 For instance, when Comcast and NBCU 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 239 came before us, that was not a horizontal merger 1 so much as a vertical one. And so divestiture 2 in vertical mergers where you are -- where 3 someone up the supply chain is merging with 4 someone below, the divestiture doesn't work so 5 well. And so you rely more on the conduct 6 conditions.7 And in that one, they said well, this 8 will result in many benefits. We will have --9 we will be able to consolidate local programming 10 and have better local programming. We said 11 well, that's nice, but in order to count as a 12 benefit in our merger review, it has to meet 13 certain criteria.14 It has to be -- we have to be pretty 15 sure it's going to happen. It can't be just 16 an empty promise. And so one way that a merger 17 applicant can prove that it is going to happen 18 is to make an absolute commitment that it will 19 and we will put that in as a merger condition 20 and follow it.21 So that's one type of condition or 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 240 mitigating harm. If people fear, for instance, 1 that a vertical merger will result in prejudice 2 to competitors at one level or the other, we 3 can put on a condition that will mitigate that 4 harm by requiring the merged entity to act more 5 like they would have acted before the merger.6 Now, there are different types of 7 merger conditions. And this is the structural 8 and conduct remedies. There are also different 9 ways that the condition can be presented in the 10 order.11 The order might direct specific 12 conduct. Divestees provide this service. It 13 can also direct specific consequences. In the 14 mergers of the RBOC when they combined, like 15 Bell Atlantic, NYNEX, SBC, Ameritech, there were 16 specific consequences in the merger order that 17 said you should do this to maintain competition 18 or to increase your competition with the 19 remaining companies. And if you don't, then 20 you will pay this fine. And that was specified 21 in the order.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 241 The order might establish -- many 1 orders don't establish such specific 2 consequences. The order can alternatively 3 establish a framework for private dispute 4 resolution.5 When we had the merger between the 6 Hughes Company, which owned DirecTV, and when 7 DirecTV was purchased by News Corporation, that 8 was a vertical merger. And there were some 9 concerns about whether or not there would be 10 discrimination against other programmers and/or 11 the provision of programming to other providers.12 And the Commission in that case, I 13 think for the first time, established an 14 arbitration remedy, so that the private parties 15 could resolve disputes about that. We said what 16 the standard was and we created a baseball 17 arbitration which is a kind of final offer 18 arbitration which gives a great incentive for 19 the parties to settle, to come closer to each 20 other and then to settle the dispute. So that's 21 another type of condition.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 242 The order may also include specific 1 reporting obligations to make sure that the 2 applicants are complying with the conditions. 3 And it may provide for termination and it often 4 does.5 I mean, the conditions generally 6 will last for a fixed period of time. They don't 7 generally go on forever. Sometimes they 8 provide for a re-evaluation at a certain point 9 in time to determine whether it ought to be 10 continued.11 Okay. The enforcement of merger 12 conditions depends in part on the type of 13 conditions and the provisions in the FCC order 14 that I just described. Some conditions are more 15 or less self-enforcing. The -- for instance, 16 the RBOC merger conditions, if they didn't do 17 such and such, then they would pay a fine. But 18 it was pretty much out there.19 Another self-enforcing condition 20 can be -- and this is very infrequent and I can 21 only think of one or two examples, which mimic 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 243 a little bit are the provisions in other 1 regulations which say here is the requirement 2 that you must meet. And if you don't meet it, 3 the license goes away. That's Capital 4 Punishment. It's a very extreme condition. 5 That's not usually used.6 But there are the -- the arbitration 7 remedy is also a kind of self-enforcing 8 condition, because the parties outside will 9 enforce it.10 Another way that conditions can be 11 enforced is by if someone is not meeting the 12 condition, you can have a complaint to the Bureau 13 or to the Enforcement Bureau. And I understand 14 there is a complaint portal. CGB has a 15 complaint portal where people go on the website 16 and, just as a side comment, it's interesting 17 to follow the presentation on the website, 18 because it has been an issue of a lot of 19 discussion around here as well as outside.20 But there is an enforcement portal, 21 which I think is fcc.gov/complaint. Not an 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 244 enforcement portal, but a complaint portal that 1 will lead citizens, if they have a complaint 2 about a merger, to the process of how they can 3 register that with the Commission.4 For monitoring compliance with 5 conditions, some conditions in the merger order 6 itself will provide for monitoring and regular 7 reports, periodic reports by the applicants as 8 to their compliance with the conditions. There 9 were a number of these, for instance, in the 10 Comcast/NBCU order.11 Another way that things are 12 monitored is by complaints and petitions from 13 interested parties. Some of the conditions are 14 designed so that -- our hope is that there won't 15 be complaints, that people will be complying 16 and then we won't hear about it.17 But we do have the complaints will 18 come in and that's another way of monitoring. 19 The bureaus, the different bureaus that 20 regulate the various industries keep an eye on 21 things. They are constantly in communication 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 245 with the participants. They get input from 1 citizens who have complaints, so they are 2 constantly monitoring that.3 And also, the Enforcement Bureau as 4 well has an opportunity to monitor as they look 5 at the complaints that come in.6 Monitoring the effectiveness of the 7 conditions. This occurs through several 8 mechanisms. One is the relevant industry 9 Bureaus have just their general experience and 10 their oversight as they watch what is happening 11 out there in the industry.12 They are well-aware of what was 13 stated would ge a potential harm or benefit from 14 a merger transaction. And as they observe going 15 forward, they see is the condition working? 16 Isn't it working?17 A good measure is the complaints 18 that are received. If they get a lot of 19 complaints, that indicates there is a problem 20 with the condition. Now, the complaints may 21 be you put all these conditions on and it's still 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 246 having a problem, so they can get that kind of 1 feedback.2 Another way we monitor 3 effectiveness is through other proceedings. 4 There are several competition reports that are 5 required by our statute on an annual basis or 6 other periodic bases and those -- as they look 7 at the quality of competition in the industry, 8 one of the things that they will take into 9 account is how well are things working, 10 including are the merger conditions that were 11 put on as concentration increased doing what 12 they were intended to do?13 Perhaps one of the most effective 14 ways of looking back and measuring effectiveness 15 is the next merger comes along, a similar issue 16 is presented. And we will get -- first of all, 17 the Agency itself is very concerned about what 18 -- how to address these new problems, so we will 19 look back at our own experience and judge it, 20 but also the filings that come in.21 If the condition has been 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 247 successful, the filings will say, please, put 1 something like that on this one, too. If it 2 has been unsuccessful, they will say well, that 3 didn't work, they something else or make these 4 modifications in light of the experience you 5 have had.6 And we have done this, I know with 7 the arbitration remedy. We have tinkered with 8 that to try to address some of the concerns that 9 have come up.10 Finally, modifying merger 11 conditions. Conditions are placed on at the 12 time of the merger. The market place in all 13 of the markets we regulate is changing 14 constantly with technology and other things. 15 So it is sometimes necessary to monitor them. 16 There are changed conditions that make what 17 was once an appropriate condition, no longer 18 appropriate.19 There are also disputes that arise 20 over the ambiguities in the language of a 21 condition. And people can come in at any time 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 248 and petition the Commission to modify a 1 condition on a merger. We don't -- this doesn't 2 happy that frequently. We do get with some 3 frequency requests to clarify.4 You know, because often these 5 conditions are put on at a time when no one really 6 knows what is going to happen when these 7 companies combine, when there is that change 8 in the marketplace. And so the conditions are 9 written on the basis of what is potential, what 10 is going to happen. And when actual experience 11 starts happening, often it will -- things will 12 come up that were not anticipated at the time 13 the condition was written.14 So there might be an ambiguity or 15 a need to revise a condition in some way. And 16 that is done through the modification.17 So that's the kind of very quick run 18 through of the general structure and I'll be 19 glad to answer any questions.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. That was 21 very informative. Paul and then Claude.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 249 MR. SCHROEDER: Thanks. Paul 1 Schroeder with the American Foundation for the 2 Blind.3 I know that the Disability Work 4 Group had raised this issue partly out of concern 5 that disability issues were not, in our view, 6 being considered as part of merger conditions. 7 And that may be because we haven't been pushing 8 them hard enough. But I wonder if you could 9 speak to how -- well, first of all, have there 10 been, to your knowledge, conditions that related 11 to accessibility?12 I believe I have read somewhere that 13 there are things like deployment of advance 14 services, ensuring the diversity of information 15 sources and services to the public, those kinds 16 of things are considered generally in the 17 mergers as well as advancing technology, quality 18 of communication services.19 So there is plenty of ways in which 20 accessibility ought to be considered. And I 21 know we did -- several of us did put in letters 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 250 for a recent telecom merger where one company 1 clearly had a superior record of accessibility.2 To a second though, you know, both 3 could certainly use improvement. And that 4 would have been a good opportunity for the FCC 5 to make a very clear statement of disability 6 access as part of the condition.7 So (A) has that ever been done, to 8 your knowledge? And (B) how can we best 9 intervene to make that happen? And I guess (C) 10 is there something that CAC ought to do about 11 that?12 MR. BIRD: Thank you. Good 13 question. I am struggling to remember where 14 I have actually seen a condition addressing 15 disabilities. You are correct that that is part 16 of the general public interest mandate put upon 17 us by Congress. So it's certainly an 18 appropriate question to raise.19 One of the questions that comes up 20 frequently is, with respect to conditions, are 21 they specific to the merger? In other words, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 251 is the merger creating a problem that this 1 condition is necessary to fix?2 And the example that you raised is 3 a good one, I think, where you say these two 4 companies are merging. One of them has a better 5 record. If it is the company that is the 6 purchasing company, that would be a good thing. 7 But I know that in some companies, I think, 8 when -- I'm thinking CenturyLink, Embarq or the 9 one that preceded that was CenturyTel, Embarq 10 or CenturyLink when there were two records and 11 companies with respect to issues of consumer 12 service and performance.13 The Commission did put some 14 conditions on that, so that would have -- I think 15 it's an appropriate issue to raise. And I would 16 encourage you to do it. It is important to raise 17 it in the context of the proceeding. But I think 18 there is a basis for that.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Clause?20 MR. STOUT: Hi, this is Claude. I 21 would like to build on what Mark just mentioned 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 252 or excuse me, Paul just mentioned. First of 1 all, the FCC did address disability issues 2 historically. We remember when AOL combined 3 with Time-Warner and the Time-Warner/ AOL, I'm 4 not sure who was the purchasing company and who 5 was the purchased company there.6 But the FCC made it clear to AOL that 7 they had to make their instant messenger 8 services interoperable with other services. 9 That was a big get for the disability community. 10 And I would hope that your office moving forward 11 when you are considering merger applications, 12 you can make that a regular item on your 13 checklist, because companies should be actively 14 pursuing hiring of disabled employees, making 15 sure that their products and services are 16 accessible to disabled consumers.17 And that way, you are helping to 18 serve the public interest, because we are part 19 of the public. And the public interest is in 20 our interest. And I want to thank you for that.21 MR. BIRD: Thank you. Yes, I 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 253 remember AOL/Time-Warner.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's okay. 2 Yes, yes? Oh, I wasn't sure up or down. Ken?3 MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. I may be a 4 little bit off point here, but we work a lot 5 with banks when they are going through mergers. 6 And the regulatory agencies will suppose or, 7 you know, impose things and I guess the banks 8 will indicate what they will be doing in terms 9 of serving the public interest.10 And part of that is in terms of what 11 foundation -- what they are going to be doing 12 in terms of the combined foundation, what they 13 will be doing maybe in terms of educational 14 programs with the community, commitments to 15 diversity and things like that.16 Is this ever addressed in merger 17 proposals that come to the FCC?18 MR. BIRD: Yes. In fact, if you 19 look at the conditions in the Comcast/NBCU 20 merger, there were a number of conditions that 21 addressed the public interest part of our 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 254 standard that involves providing the paid 1 programming, it's public access, education and 2 government programming, children's television 3 was addressed and has been addressed in a couple 4 of the mergers.5 But that is definitely one of the 6 services to the community, particularly in 7 broadcast mergers is a topic that is often 8 addressed in the merger.9 MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I have seen 10 it in broadcast, but has that been done when 11 telecom mergers have been approved?12 MR. BIRD: I think the conditions 13 on telecom mergers primarily address the 14 provision of the service, getting the service 15 out and preserving competition in that 16 marketplace. USF, however, which is the public 17 interest part of getting this service out does 18 come up in merger conditions. And I think in 19 AllTel, Verizon/AllTel there was a specific 20 condition about that.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Do you have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 255 a question, Mitsi?1 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera. 2 CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are on.3 MS. HERRERA: Montgomery County, 4 MD. Is it on? My question is can you talk about 5 the process for after you impose the merger 6 conditions, how you monitor compliance? 7 Earlier this morning, I talked about one of the 8 conditions of Comcast merger with NBC Universal. 9 Was it they offer certain things? They have 10 a three year cycle in which they have to do these 11 things. It has not gone well the first year.12 So what happens both from that 13 perspective of just the overall compliance 14 picture?15 And then it seems to me that some 16 times in these mergers, there are conditions 17 that are imposed, but there wasn't a lot of 18 research that went into the benchmarks that are 19 set. 20 So, for example, using school lunch 21 as a benchmark for income eligibility. It turns 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 256 out that there are lots of problems engaged in 1 that. So does the Bureau do something so that 2 you kind of learn from those lessons if we have 3 a similar or another type of thing that we have 4 got a way that we don't keep making the same 5 difficult to monitor conditions as part of them?6 MR. BIRD: Okay. Well, a couple of 7 answers. One is I'm not -- I'll have to look 8 at that specific Comcast condition, but I know 9 that in a number of the conditions like that 10 one in Comcast, there were quarterly reports 11 due from the applicant.12 Now, if the quarterly report shows 13 they are not meeting the conditions, then that's 14 an action item for either the Bureau or the 15 Enforcement Bureau to take action to stimulate 16 them to comply with the condition. There are 17 those sanctions which can be applied if they 18 are not complying.19 MS. HERRERA: So I'm sorry, do --20 the sanctions are those things that have to be 21 put into the merger itself as an enforcement 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 257 or is there sort of a standing set? Because 1 they have already gone and merged. 2 MR. BIRD: Right. No, the 3 enforcement -- once an order comes out, it's 4 an order of the Commission. If they are not 5 complying with the condition, they are violating 6 an order of the Commission and the Enforcement 7 Bureau has authority to enforce with the 8 sanctions that are available to them.9 The second question about learning 10 from experience, that's a great question. And 11 we do learn from experience. It is very helpful 12 to us to have input from the public, because 13 you will see things that sometimes we don't see. 14 So if you would -- you know, if you say just 15 let us know if something is not working, if the 16 measure is wrong, just let us know about that, 17 because that's -- we do want to learn from that. 18 We want the conditions to be effective.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Great. 20 Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your 21 coming here --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 258 MR. BIRD: Thank you.1 CHAIR BERLYN: -- and giving us that 2 report. Thank you.3 (Applause)4 CHAIR BERLYN: We now have our 5 working groups and Scott is going to come and 6 tell us where we are going. Hold for 7 instructions. So we have until 3:00 for our 8 working groups, which includes a short break. 9 You can take it before your working group, after 10 your working group, but we will be meeting back 11 here promptly at 3:00.12 So it is now 2:00. Paul, can you 13 give Scott your mike there?14 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes.15 CHAIR BERLYN: So he --16 MR. SCHROEDER: Coming your way.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, sorry there, 18 Scott.19 MR. MARSHALL: Not to worry. Hang 20 on one second. This is Scott and I'll be right 21 with you.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 259 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.1 MR. LEWIS: This is Clayton. Would 2 it be possible for me to get patched into the 3 Disability Working Group?4 MR. MARSHALL: Yes. If you call in 5 on the -- or hang on that number that you are 6 on now, yes, you can participate.7 MR. LEWIS: Sounds good. Thanks.8 MR. MARSHALL: It's like no 9 problem. All right. Let's see, I'm sorry. 10 Yes, we have breakouts. Right across the hall 11 here without going upstairs or anything of that 12 sort, that would be on your left hand side just 13 go past the intersecting hallway where the 14 restrooms are, keep going straight and that's 15 TWA-402 and 442, that's adjoining rooms.16 And then going up the --17 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?18 MR. MARSHALL: Yes?19 CHAIR BERLYN: Which one are we 20 going to have in there?21 MR. MARSHALL: Oh, okay. All 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 260 right. Oh, I'm sorry. Picky, picky, a minor 1 detail, a minor detail.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Well, first of all, 3 we are going to have disability stay --4 MR. MARSHALL: Disability will stay 5 here.6 CHAIR BERLYN: -- here. Okay.7 MR. MARSHALL: Because of the 8 captioning availability and all that sort of 9 stuff.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 11 MR. MARSHALL: Who else wants to 12 meet, first of all?13 CHAIR BERLYN: Media. Media 14 Working Group is going to meet, so shall we put 15 them in the first --16 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, one of those 17 rooms, yes.18 CHAIR BERLYN: -- one then?19 MR. MARSHALL: That would be fine.20 CHAIR BERLYN: In 402?21 MR. MARSHALL: 402.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 261 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 1 MR. MARSHALL: That would work. 2 Media 402. Broadband, do you want to meet?3 MR. BARTHOLME: We'll stay here.4 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Well, you do 5 have a choice.6 MR. BARTHOLME: We could take a long 7 break though.8 MR. MARSHALL: You are pretty big, 9 so you should probably go up to 468, which is 10 up the stairway and to your right.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.12 MR. MARSHALL: Up the stairway and 13 then make a right and then it will be on your 14 right, that's TWC-468. Okay. And anybody else 15 want to meet? Universal Service? Okay. 16 Universal Service, why don't you do 442, which 17 is right next to 402.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Right.19 MR. MARSHALL: And then --20 CHAIR BERLYN: Consumer wants to 21 meet.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 262 MR. MARSHALL: -- Consumer, you 1 have a choice. You can either stay here at the 2 other end of this room or the only other rooms 3 I have available are on the second floor and 4 that's not a problem, but you will need one of 5 us to guide you up there to get through the locked 6 doors and all that kind of stuff.7 MR. BARTHOLME: We will happily 8 stay here.9 MR. MARSHALL: You'll happily stay 10 here. All right. So I guess that takes care 11 of it. All right. Thanks, everybody. We will 12 see you around 3:00.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Okay. 14 That works.15 (Whereupon, at 2:06 p.m. a recess 16 until 3:10 p.m.)17 CHAIR BERLYN: We are going to jump 18 right into our working group reports and action. 19 I'm going to call on the Disability Working 20 Group first and, Lise, if you could report back 21 and share some information with us?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 263 MS. HAMLIN: Okay. Thank you. 1 This is Lise Hamlin from Hearing Loss 2 Association. We are going to give a quick 3 report of the whole committee and then Rebecca 4 Ladew had sent out, through Scott's email to 5 you, a report on speech-to-speech and she will 6 give a real -- we will both do real brief updates 7 on where we are here.8 First, I wanted to give you a heads 9 up on right now we have not brought 10 recommendations, but we are planning to for our 11 last meeting in October. So we are going to 12 be catching up here. So we expect to have a 13 recommendation on speech-to-speech.14 We will be also working on a new 15 issue which is accessible textbooks. There are 16 now textbooks coming out that have, the 17 eTextbooks that have video on audible content. 18 And we will put together a recommendation for 19 that as well that we can bring forward.20 We are going to also take a look at 21 mobile health care, the same kind of problems, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 264 so that -- remote health care, so there are 1 problems with access to, so we are going to take 2 a look at that and see if there is a 3 recommendation that may or may not come out. 4 We are going to take a look at that.5 And finally, we are also looking at 6 what is happening with mobile captioning and 7 new entries into the marketplace and how we can 8 recommend -- how the FCC can facilitate that.9 There was also some discussion now 10 with -- we are not sure we are going to come 11 up a recommendation on this, but you should be 12 aware that now that video description is getting 13 on board and we are going forward with CVAA, 14 monitoring of compliance with the new rules is 15 going to be an issue.16 So I think what will happen from the 17 Disability Working Group is we will take a look 18 at how that is happening, what -- how we can 19 see that people are actually fulfilling their 20 obligations. And if at some point in the future 21 we feel that we need a recommendation on that, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 265 we may come forward with that as well.1 We also just landed -- Clayton is 2 moving to the Department of Ed.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh really?4 MS. HAMLIN: Yes. I hope that was 5 public, Clayton. Ken told our group. So we 6 are losing him from the group, but we wish him 7 well and we want to thank him for all his work 8 on the group. And so now, I'm going to turn 9 it over to Rebecca for her report on 10 speech-to-speech.11 MS. LADEW: Hi. If the FCC wants 12 individuals with speech disabilities to enjoy 13 connectivity with others under the Broadband 14 Program, the Wide Area Network, then the FCC 15 should start thinking about installing the rules 16 and regulations for speech-to-speech that were 17 proposed under the 1998 Notice of Proposed 18 Rulemaking.19 It is urgent that these rules and 20 regulations be installed or replaced to meet 21 the 21 st Century technological advances.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 266 Also, updating the rules and 1 regulations will assist in adding a new service 2 that the speech disabled community would like 3 to have installed, video-assisted 4 speech-to-speech.5 There is a video speech-to-speech 6 trial going on in Virginia that I will be 7 participating in. California recently had its 8 trial. Hopefully more states will follow suit.9 Updating the rules and regulations 10 for speech-to-speech and the installation of 11 video speech-to-speech would greatly enhance 12 the Next Generation 911 services for the speech 13 disabled community.14 It is hoped that the Disabilities 15 Working Group and the full CAC will give its 16 full support on this issue.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you 18 very much, Lise and Rebecca. I appreciate that 19 and appreciate your report and the work that 20 your working group is doing. Thank you. I see 21 Ed is still working with his group back there. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 267 The working group is still working. Shall we 1 -- we are going to skip the Consumer Empowerment 2 Working Group for now.3 And, Barry, are you ready to report? 4 I see you at your computer there.5 MR. UMANSKY: What we have arrived 6 from this today, we have --7 PARTICIPANT: The mike.8 MR. UMANSKY: Hello? We have 9 decided to defer until October. A matter 10 dealing with political broadcast advertising 11 disclosure, it's clear this is not a good time 12 for -- to expect any resolution or changes by 13 the FCC nor the Congress. So stay tuned for 14 that in October.15 Oh, you do have before you, and they 16 are both in your packet, two documents. One 17 has been edited and we are going to put it on 18 the screen in a few minutes. Okay. Any more 19 and I'll be eating it. I think this is not on. 20 Hello?21 PARTICIPANT: The switch.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 268 CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe raise your 1 hand. No, I think it's working.2 MR. UMANSKY: I've raised all seven 3 hands here.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Yes.5 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. 6 CHAIR BERLYN: You have a great 7 voice, but it's --8 MR. UMANSKY: Are you there yet?9 PARTICIPANT: Do you want to try 10 this one?11 CHAIR BERLYN: No, I think it's 12 working.13 PARTICIPANT: Okay. 14 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. I will just 15 spare you a repeat. What we have before you 16 now, two recommendations. One deals with 17 emergency messaging. And you might recall at 18 an earlier CAC meeting, we were talking about 19 the results of the First National Test of the 20 Emergency Alert System.21 And in the original presentation, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 269 we talked about how people watching over 1 multi-channel video providers, some might have 2 some difficulty if they were hearing impaired.3 During the course of the discussion, 4 there was a consensus developed that when it 5 comes to emergency alerting and emergency 6 communications, through EAS or other means, that 7 this group has an interest in everyone being 8 able to receive them, regardless of whether they 9 might be hearing-impaired, visually-impaired 10 or part of the deaf/blind community.11 That was fine and that was our 12 recommendation from last year.13 Now, we are looking at other changes 14 in the emergency alerting. Kicking in later 15 this month is the new requirement for what's 16 called Common Alerting Protocol. It's a 17 technology to be adopted now by broadcast 18 stations and multi-channel providers.19 It seems clear that down the road 20 a technology like this will be applied to mobile 21 wireless services, perhaps even to social media, 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 270 all with the goal of ensuring that members of 1 the public, when there is an alerting message 2 to be distributed, have a fighting chance of 3 hearing it, seeing it, sensing it.4 So the recommendation we have for 5 you just looks to what is happening now with 6 the Common Alerting Protocol and looking to the 7 future of other technologies. I have talked 8 to many people here. I have talked to members 9 of our working group and other members of the 10 CAC, in general, and there seems to be a 11 consensus and support and we certainly accept 12 any discussion or recommendations on that one.13 Is there a motion?14 CHAIR BERLYN: Motion to --15 MR. UMANSKY: Accept.16 CHAIR BERLYN: -- accept the 17 recommendation from the floor? A motion?18 MR. UMANSKY: Thank you. Is there 19 a second?20 CHAIR BERLYN: Can people verbalize 21 this as well?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 271 MR. UMANSKY: It was Mitsi Herrera.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So 2 discussion on the recommendation? Any 3 discussion? Lise?4 MS. HAMLIN: Can I --5 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise, raise your 6 hand.7 MS. HAMLIN: Can I just ask where 8 this is in our -- is it in our packet?9 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, it is.10 CHAIR BERLYN: It is in the packet.11 MS. HAMLIN: Which one is it? What 12 does it say on top?13 MR. UMANSKY: Well, it says -- the 14 heading is "FCC Consumer Advisory Committee 15 Further Recommendation Regarding the Provision 16 of Emergency Messages to the Public." We sent 17 this draft to Scott many days ago and then many 18 days ago he --19 CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there.20 MR. UMANSKY: -- sent it 21 electronically and you have hard copies in your 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 272 packet.1 CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there. Do 2 you see it, Lise?3 MR. UMANSKY: You got an email from 4 Scott about three or four days ago with this 5 document and it's also in hard copy in the 6 packet.7 CHAIR BERLYN: The hard copy is in 8 the packet.9 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Thank you.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Any -- oh, Mitsi?11 MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, 12 Montgomery County. I don't have any -- I think 13 it's a good effort and I don't have any objection 14 to it. I would just say that if it's possible 15 for looking at, at some point, what the FCC 16 has done with our recommendations, it may be 17 useful that you recast this as the CAC recommends 18 one, two, three, four, because you have now got 19 four items in here, two are numbered.20 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. The first 21 paragraph describes what we did before. I think 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 273 what we should recommend though is that when 1 we get back together in October, that we have 2 representatives from the Commission's staff 3 talk about their assessment of the EAS National 4 Test, the effectiveness of the Common Alerting 5 Protocol and perhaps give us a glimpse of how, 6 in the future, there may be additional ways of 7 alerting the public to emergency information. 8 Okay. All right.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Any further 10 discussion? Okay. I'll call the question.11 All those in favor say aye.12 ALL: Aye.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Any opposed? I'm 14 sorry? Oh, okay. Any abstentions? Okay. No 15 abstentions, Scott. And no opposed.16 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. For the next 17 presentation, if we could ask those in the booth 18 to put the -- there we go. Great. What I have 19 done is split this up, so that people can see 20 it in very large print.21 What we have done is taken the second 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 274 recommendation that the working group, our Media 1 Working Group, has advanced to you and we have 2 shortened it, tightened it and made it a little 3 more consumer-focused.4 The opening paragraph is the same, 5 given the background of how the Commission is 6 responding to --7 PARTICIPANT: Is this the Spectrum?8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.9 MR. UMANSKY: It certainly is.10 CHAIR BERLYN: This is the --11 MR. UMANSKY: That's the only one 12 left to talk about.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, would you just 14 read the header, that might -- just so people 15 can find it in their packet?16 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, there you go. 17 "FCC Consumer Advisory Committee Recommendation 18 Regarding Spectrum Reallocation and 19 Reauthorization." Okay. 20 MR. MARSHALL: Barry, did I 21 understand you correctly, what you are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 275 presenting now is different than what was 1 distributed --2 MR. UMANSKY: Right. What we have 3 done --4 MR. MARSHALL: -- in the packet? 5 Okay. Go ahead.6 MR. UMANSKY: -- we have had 7 meetings of --8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, changes.9 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.10 MR. UMANSKY: -- our Media Working 11 Group.12 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.13 MR. UMANSKY: We have consulted 14 with others and we are offering for you, 15 basically, something that will take this screen, 16 another page and then one sentence. So we put 17 it in large print.18 The first paragraph is what you have 19 seen verbatim from the original recommendation. 20 So we move to the next page, it says "Whereas, 21 the public has an interest in both the expansion 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 276 of wireless broadband services and the continued 1 provision of valuable over-the-air television 2 broadcast services and local stations. 3 Therefore, be it resolved that the FCC's 4 Consumer Advisory Committee, CAC" --5 PARTICIPANT: Slow down.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, slow down just 7 a bit.8 PARTICIPANT: Our interpreter is 9 interpreting.10 MR. UMANSKY: Oh, I'm sorry. CAC.11 PARTICIPANT: Don't mumble and slow 12 down.13 MR. UMANSKY: Although, it's on the 14 screen.15 PARTICIPANT: Okay. 16 MR. UMANSKY: And even those at home 17 --18 CHAIR BERLYN: Some may -- yes.19 MR. UMANSKY: -- see it on the 20 screen.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Some may not be able 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 277 to do that.1 MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Again, 2 nothing has changed up to the paragraph that 3 is on your screen. Let's start out, "urges that 4 consistent with the terms of the," and this is 5 the legislation discussed earlier by the FCC 6 staff, "Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation 7 Act of 2012. FCC regulatory proceedings to 8 reallocate and reauthorize portions of the 9 Spectrum heretofore used for over-the-air 10 television broadcasting, in short, one, that 11 the impact to television viewers is minimized, 12 while at the same time maximizing benefits to 13 wireless consumers.14 And two, that terrestrial 15 television stations, terrestrial stations 16 retain the ability to offer and consumers retain 17 the ability to benefit from high definition, 18 multi-cast programming and innovative new 19 services, such as mobile DTV."20 That is the recommendation offered 21 for you. It has been approved by the Media 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 278 Working Group and of others with whom we have 1 spoken today.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Do --3 MR. UMANSKY: Put it back up.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, put it back on 5 the screen while we are talking about it. Do 6 I have a motion to move the recommendation? 7 I need a motion from the floor before discussion. 8 I have a motion to move it from Mary. Second?9 MS. LEECH: Second.10 CHAIR BERLYN: And I have a second 11 from Irene. Discussion? Scott, I saw your 12 card go up first. Scott, raise your hand and 13 pull the mike.14 MR. BERGMANN: I forget every time.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.16 MR. BERGMANN: Sorry about that. 17 Scott Bergmann from CTIA. Can everybody hear 18 me okay now?19 CHAIR BERLYN: I think so.20 MR. BERGMANN: So I just have -- I'm 21 not on the Media Working Group, but I wanted 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 279 to thank the members of the Media Working Group 1 for trying to refocus this recommendation a 2 little bit more towards consumers. So I 3 appreciate that.4 And I guess, to that note, I wanted 5 to suggest that the second recommendation has 6 added the concept of consumers by consumers 7 retaining the ability to benefit da, da, da. 8 But I wanted to ask about that first part of 9 Recommendation No. 2, which talks about 10 terrestrial stations retaining the ability to 11 offer.12 And it seems to me like that would 13 depend on which options a broadcast station 14 chose under the new Act, right? The Act 15 provides a variety of different things.16 So I guess my recommendation -- and 17 some of them are inconsistent with that, right? 18 If someone chose to really push their Spectrum 19 or to channel share, they might not retain that 20 ability.21 So I guess my recommendation would 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 280 be to start No. 2 with a focus on consumers. 1 So, you know, as you guys have really nicely 2 captured with No. 1, I think you have recognized 3 there is a balance, right? There is going to 4 be upside to consumers and you also want to 5 minimize disruption to them as well, too.6 And I guess I would encourage folks 7 to orient the second recommendation to consumers 8 as well, too. So just to flow No. 2 from 9 consumers retaining the ability to benefit from 10 those services that you guys listed there as 11 well, too.12 So I guess that was thought one. 13 And thought two was just to make sure -- I think 14 the intent of this recommendation is to be 15 consistent with the Act that was passed and --16 which reflects a balancing of different public 17 policy benefits one way or the other. And I 18 just wanted to make sure that that was the case. 19 And if it's not the case, to find out. So those 20 were my two comments.21 Again, thank you guys for being 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 281 willing to -- particularly given that this is 1 a Consumer Advisory Committee focused on the 2 consumer perspective on this recommendation.3 MR. UMANSKY: Yes?4 MS. KEARNEY: This is Julie Kearney 5 from CEA. And I think Mitsi and I are both a 6 little confused. What is our goal with this 7 recommendation? Because the statute, you know, 8 gives the Commission some very clear direction 9 on what --10 MR. UMANSKY: It does.11 MS. KEARNEY: -- they are to do. 12 So are we -- I would like just to understand 13 further, do we need to tell the Commission what 14 they need to do?15 MR. UMANSKY: No. I think there is 16 a couple of very clear consumer elements of that, 17 you know, Middle Class Tax Cut Extension. And 18 this recommendation is keyed to and suggests 19 the Commission, of course, will follow the lead, 20 the mandate of Congress.21 But to point out how there are 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 282 consumer benefits here, isn't just an 1 industry-wide issue.2 MS. KEARNEY: Do --3 MR. UMANSKY: That --4 MS. KEARNEY: Okay. I guess my 5 question is do we do this with every piece of 6 legislation that comes down? Did we do this 7 with CVAA, telling the Commission to follow what 8 Congress told them to do? I just wonder what 9 the -- you know, what do we want them to do?10 MR. UMANSKY: The expression of the 11 desires of the Consumer Advisory Committee. 12 It need not replicate every element of every 13 statute, but it's simply an expression of their 14 interest in the matter.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Mitsi?16 MS. HERRERA: Okay. So beyond the 17 fact that it is -- I'm not really clear what 18 the value-added necessary consumer spin of it 19 is. But substantively, I am somewhat concerned 20 that impact on viewers is minimized is a somewhat 21 murky and nebulous term. And I don't 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 283 necessarily -- I mean, I haven't been in the 1 Media Working Group.2 MR. UMANSKY: Right.3 MS. HERRERA: But to some extent, 4 over-the-air broadcast is the least efficient 5 use of Spectrum. And to -- and there is only, 6 what is it, under 10 percent of people who have 7 televisions use over-the-air --8 MR. UMANSKY: Right.9 MS. HERRERA: -- to receive those. 10 So I'm not necessarily sure that protecting 11 the right of those 10 percent of the population 12 to continue to get it over-the-air is something 13 that -- and the impact on them has to be minimized 14 in moving forward with wireless broadband.15 MR. UMANSKY: Well, for better or 16 for worse, that's what the statute requires, 17 that there are people that their only choice 18 is over-the-air television. That quantum will 19 probably continue for quite a while.20 MS. HERRERA: So --21 MR. UMANSKY: There is nothing in 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 284 this statement that is antithetical to what the 1 Congress has directed the FCC to do.2 MS. HERRERA: Okay. So I have not 3 reviewed the statute in any -- I haven't reviewed 4 it at all. So can you point out in that -- in 5 the resolution what is the resolution stating 6 that goes beyond what the statute directs the 7 FCC to do?8 MR. UMANSKY: Nothing.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Can we put it back 10 up on the screen? Thank you.11 MS. HERRERA: Then I'm not really 12 understanding --13 MR. UMANSKY: It is --14 MS. HERRERA: -- then why we are 15 submitting it. If it's -- I mean, most of the 16 things that we have had have sort of been 17 pointing out things that have fallen through 18 the cracks or raising the awareness of specific 19 things from, in a lot of ways, a consumer and 20 a user perspective that sometimes people at the 21 top don't look at.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 285 And I'm just trying to understand. 1 Is it that because we want to be engaged on 2 the issue with the FCC? Because one of the 3 things we talked about was looking to see how 4 the FCC dealt specifically with the 5 recommendations that we gave.6 MR. UMANSKY: Right.7 MS. HERRERA: So if we are sort of 8 just giving a recommendation that says we 9 resolve that you should follow the statute, I'm 10 -- it makes it difficult, I think, to look to 11 see the value that we have created and provided.12 MR. UMANSKY: I have looked at the 13 last 11 or 12 years worth of recommendations 14 coming from this Advisory Committee. And in 15 many issues, the Advisory Committee simply 16 expresses its opinion, its views, which in some 17 cases are completely congruent with what 18 relevant statutes are and the thrust of FCC 19 proceedings.20 But that has not barred this 21 Committee from expressing itself on issues it 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 286 considers to be important to consumers. This 1 would not be breaking new ground in terms of 2 the role of the Consumer Advisory Committee at 3 all.4 It would be an expression of a 5 viewpoint and a direction. And it is not 6 antithetical to the terms of the statute. Ann?7 CHAIR BERLYN: I have Ann and then 8 Luisa.9 MS. BOBECK: Hi, Ann Bobeck with the 10 National Association of Broadcasters. I just 11 want to point out it is entirely consistent with 12 the statute to promote advance wireless 13 broadband service in terms of availability of 14 Spectrum, but also crucial to the point to 15 preserve free over-the-air television --16 MR. UMANSKY: Right.17 MS. BOBECK: -- to the 46 million 18 television sets and the people that are reliant 19 on free over-the-air television. Remember who 20 those people are. It is the elderly, Hispanic. 21 It is often the low-income folks, persons with 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 287 disabilities.1 So to say that it is not efficient, 2 I honestly take disagreement that a one-to-many 3 service is not an efficient use of Spectrum. 4 We can have an off-line discussion that.5 But, you know, the statute6 recognized the value of both services and I would 7 think that if you took a poll around this table 8 and all the folks that went through the DTV 9 transition, then -- and the 95 out of the top 10 100 programs that are on broadcast television 11 as the most popular television programs, I think 12 a lot of consumers do value free over-the-air 13 television.14 So I think it is important as the 15 Advisory Committee that should we want to value 16 a Spectrum reallocation, that it is important 17 that anything that remains post-reallocation 18 as we repack the broadcast Spectrum, that 19 consumers don't lose that access, particularly 20 those at-risk consumers.21 I think that's the intent of the 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 288 recommendation, to recognize there is value in 1 freeing up in a Spectrum Incentive Auction for 2 new services, but not disenfranchise consumers 3 in the process. I think that's an important 4 public policy goal for this Advisory Committee 5 to recognize.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Luisa?7 MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti. 8 Obviously, my company is --9 CHAIR BERLYN: Just raise your hand 10 and identify yourself.11 MS. LANCETTI: My company is very 12 keen, obviously, on Spectrum matters and was 13 involved in trying to fashion effective Spectrum 14 legislation that can now be the basis for these 15 important Commission proceedings.16 With that said, I am worried that 17 there be unintended consequences here, because 18 I do hear on one hand the notion that this is 19 only meant to confirm what the statute is 20 requiring and, therefore, the Commission should 21 be guided by and implementing the legislation.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 289 But then other comments suggesting 1 that no, perhaps this should go beyond that in 2 terms of the consumer impacts and issues.3 So with that said, and having not 4 been involved in the Media Group deliberations, 5 I'm a little concerned that, again, we not have 6 unintended consequences as a result of this 7 resolution.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Paul and then Julie 9 again. Paul needs a mike. Can someone --10 MR. SCHROEDER: Am I stealing from 11 you, Barry? Uh-oh. Well, now, Paul Schroeder, 12 American Foundation for the Blind.13 I have got the old language here in 14 front of me, but can -- before I say anything 15 further, can you remind me what the new language 16 says in the section that referred, it was Item 17 No. 2, under the therefores, high definition, 18 multi-cast programming, innovative new 19 services, mobile DTV, etcetera?20 MR. UMANSKY: Right. Okay. 21 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 290 MR. UMANSKY: I would say that --1 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry, pull the mike 2 up.3 MR. UMANSKY: Again, according to 4 the legislation itself, that the proceedings 5 of the Commission to reallocate or reauthorize 6 portions of the Spectrum heretofore used for 7 over-the-air television broadcasting ensure: 8 (1) That the impact to television viewers is 9 minimized while at the same time maximizing 10 benefits for wireless consumers.11 And (2), which I think is your focus, 12 that terrestrial stations retain the ability 13 to offer and consumers retain the ability to 14 benefit from high definition, multi-cast 15 programming and innovative new services, such 16 as mobile DTV.17 MR. SCHROEDER: Right. Paul 18 Schroeder with AFB. Then this is exactly, I 19 think, where, I would say, the Consumer Advisory 20 Committee could step in and suggest that, in 21 fact, in this section we clarify that, since 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 291 there has been such a challenge facing 1 broadcasters in terms of how to allocate 2 portions of Spectrum for description channel, 3 for example, compared to the Spectrum allocated 4 for Spanish, as a second audio channel.5 That perhaps we add that language 6 in here to express that this is an opportunity 7 for the Commission to make clear that that is 8 a direction that would be helpful to see 9 broadcasters go with this public Spectrum.10 MR. UMANSKY: Any other comments?11 CHAIR BERLYN: Julie?12 MS. KEARNEY: This is getting 13 interesting. I think just given the discussion 14 we are having here, and a lot of us including 15 Ann and Scott and Luisa and Mary, we are all 16 pretty familiar with the legislation.17 There are a lot of consumer benefit 18 that aren't just limited to this. There was 19 First Responder language. There was -- you 20 know, there are different elements.21 And I think I would be more 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 292 comfortable taking the Act in its, you know, 1 sort of entirety and focusing on the different 2 consumer benefits, rather than just this 3 specific benefit or directing the Commission 4 to -- in their implementation, that they look 5 to benefits for consumers like broadcasting, 6 like advanced communication services, like 7 First Responders, you know, that we take a higher 8 level approach.9 I'm just SCEA. I'm not comfortable 10 with a specific, you know, direction that this 11 is going in. So I would rather have a high level 12 approach, take some more time to look at the 13 Act and look at the benefits, the full benefits 14 for consumers.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott, do you have 16 your card -- did you have your card up a second 17 time?18 MR. BERGMANN: I see that now.19 CHAIR BERLYN: You did or -- okay.20 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann, 21 CTIA. I'll get it eventually. I think there 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 293 is a lot of merit to what Julie suggests. And 1 this is one of the challenges about trying to2 opine about a piece of legislation that affects 3 a variety of different piece parts.4 Right? It reflects our national 5 goals in terms of over-the-air broadcasting, 6 in terms of mobile broadband, in terms of public 7 safety and having the chance to have the whole 8 Committee work on its interpretation probably 9 would be beneficial, right, to address 10 accessibility issues that Paul has raised as 11 well, too.12 So I would certainly be more 13 comfortable with that approach as well, too.14 CHAIR BERLYN: Lise and Mitsi.15 MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin here. Let 16 me just say that while some people here actually 17 are real familiar with this, I am not. I don't 18 know if I'm the only one here who is not real 19 familiar with this statute.20 And, for me, I'm finding that I'm 21 not -- I'm listening to the back and forth, but 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 294 I don't have enough background. So I'm 1 wondering, and I see other suggestions, if the 2 Committee would consider giving us more 3 background and more information between now and 4 maybe the next meeting or if you want to vote5 in the interim. I don't know if there is a need 6 for a big rush for this to come out.7 But I would feel personally more 8 comfortable if I had more information to work 9 with.10 MR. UMANSKY: Yes. I don't believe 11 --12 MS. HAMLIN: Would you raise your 13 hand, because I can't hear you?14 MR. UMANSKY: Yes.15 MS. HAMLIN: Every time you go off 16 mike.17 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, if I can just--18 CHAIR BERLYN: And get close to the 19 mike there, Barry.20 MR. UMANSKY: -- respond here. Hi. 21 I'm not sure what the number of arrows we have 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 295 on our quiver in terms of dealing with this 1 procedurally, but I would be amenable to a small 2 task group be set up to put together another 3 draft, one that could be distributed 4 electronically to the Members of this plenary 5 Advisory Committee. And if we can vote in the 6 interim, that's fine.7 If not, this may have to wait until 8 the fall. But I see that there are a number 9 of people with some good ideas. And I think 10 that to that extent, we would have something 11 that would be -- reflect those sentiments to 12 the extent that they have support, that's fine.13 CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?14 MR. MARSHALL: I was just going to 15 point out --16 CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry. Mitsi 17 had her card up before you. So can we get her 18 comment and then your's?19 MR. MARSHALL: Sure.20 MS. HERRERA: Mitsuko Herrera, 21 Montgomery County. I don't disagree with what 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 296 Julie and Lise have said. I am sensitive to 1 the fact that I think it is significantly 2 expanding the scope of work. If the resolution 3 wants to be tailored just to address the impact 4 on over-the-air television, people who receive 5 television over-the-air, in the Act, does it 6 spell out any type of other things that the FCC 7 should be doing?8 In my community, we have had lots 9 of complaints from people that when they had 10 digital television, they lose certain channels. 11 They have had certain issues related to their 12 ability to continue to receive those signals.13 And so what I'm wondering is rather 14 than just saying that you want to minimize the 15 impact, should you actually be before you start 16 getting rid of more Spectrum, try to address 17 those issues related to the transition to ensure 18 that people who are relying on over-the-air 19 reception actually get good reception and that 20 the reception extends to the distances that it 21 needs to.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 297 MR. UMANSKY: Right. Part of the 1 Act and part of the provisions of FCC proceedings 2 deal with replicating service areas, deal with 3 ensuring that people that can receive 4 television, in particular, choices on the dial, 5 continue to receive those choices. That's one 6 of the challenges of repacking the Spectrum.7 So, yes, you will find that those 8 issues are clearly in the statute and in the--9 it will be part of the FCC's Rulemaking 10 Proceedings.11 MS. HERRERA: So, I mean, if what 12 we are looking at doing is advocating on behalf 13 of consumers, so in this area, there are lots 14 of people who sort of sit in this no man's land 15 between Baltimore and Washington, D.C. And 16 they sort of complain about, you know, which 17 channels they got or which ones they didn't.18 And I get the calls, so that's why 19 I'm mentioning it. But if what we are talking 20 about is that we want to promote and make sure 21 that the FCC looks after the consumer interest 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 298 of those people who receive over-the-air 1 signals, then I would just feel that having that 2 spelled out a little bit more in the resolution 3 would be more helpful to the FCC.4 MR. UMANSKY: Again, the statute 5 went beyond just talking about those people that 6 receive it over-the-air. We are talking about 7 a communication service and its ability to 8 provide that service continually to the public.9 One can look to the litany of FCC 10 proceedings dealing with cable carrying and 11 nonduplication, the whole relationship of 12 over-the-air broadcasting other media.13 And looking at the context now of 14 the Spectrum reallocation, there are larger 15 communications policy issues than just simply 16 people being able to view it over-the-air.17 I think, again, I would be amenable 18 to having a small task group look at this one 19 more time. The hour is late.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, we --21 MR. UMANSKY: And perhaps if that's 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 299 one of our choices, Madam Chairperson, we would 1 appoint that group.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Do we need a motion 3 for that, Scott?4 MR. BERGMANN: Sure.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. So could we 6 have a motion on the floor to do that? And, 7 Scott, do you need to do anything? Do you have 8 a --9 MR. BERGMANN: I would still point 10 out to folks who may not track the issue --11 CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.12 MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann, 13 again, with CTIA. I was going to point out for 14 folks who don't track --15 CHAIR BERLYN: I don't think you are 16 on mike.17 MR. BERGMANN: -- these issues, 18 that the FCC has not yet released its NPRM on 19 implementing the statute yet. So there is time. 20 The FCC has targeted the fall for at least an 21 NPRM, so --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 300 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 1 MR. BERGMANN: -- in contrast to 2 some of the other issues where we are weighing 3 in after the record is closed, here the FCC is 4 still in the process of putting together these 5 Notices of Proposed Rulemaking.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. 7 MR. BERGMANN: So there is the 8 advantage of having some time.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So a 10 recommendation from the floor?11 MS. LEECH: We've got a motion that 12 is alive?13 MR. UMANSKY: Yes.14 MS. LEECH: Do we adjust that --15 MS. HAMLIN: Can't hear you, Irene.16 PARTICIPANT: I can't hear her.17 CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, yes, we have --18 there is a recommendation to approve the --19 MR. MARSHALL: I think a motion to 20 refer back will take precedent, would it not, 21 on a motion that has been made and seconded?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 301 MR. UMANSKY: Right.1 MR. MARSHALL: And what -- I think 2 you are not only referring it back to the Media 3 Subcommittee, but you want some additional 4 volunteers to look at it.5 CHAIR BERLYN: Which is no --6 MR. MARSHALL: Which is no problem.7 CHAIR BERLYN: We can always have 8 that for the working group.9 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, yes.10 MR. UMANSKY: So I think a11 motion --12 CHAIR BERLYN: So we have a motion 13 to --14 MR. UMANSKY: To refer back --15 CHAIR BERLYN: -- refer it --16 MR. UMANSKY: -- for further work.17 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further work.18 MR. UMANSKY: Should do it.19 CHAIR BERLYN: Some -- okay. Ann 20 made that motion.21 MR. UMANSKY: I think I'm correct 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 302 on that.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Second. Okay. 2 Voting on referring it back to the working group 3 --4 MR. UMANSKY: Right. No 5 discussion.6 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further 7 consideration.8 MS. HERRERA: Can we refer it back? 9 I mean, because it got raised about -- Mitsi 10 Herrera. Because it got raised about the NPRM. 11 Could the working group look at making 12 recommendations to the FCC of issues to include 13 in the NPRM to get comments on?14 MR. UMANSKY: It's my understanding 15 these recommendations do actually wind up in 16 relevant docketed proceedings, do they not?17 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, absolutely.19 MR. UMANSKY: Yes, I think that's 20 already part of the process.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 303 MR. MARSHALL: Part of the 1 relevance.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Let's move forward. 3 This Committee can do whatever it --4 MR. MARSHALL: Yes, that's already 5 part of the process.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So all those 7 in favor, say aye.8 ALL: Aye.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Opposed? 10 Abstaining? Anyone abstaining? Nope, okay. 11 No nos, no abstaining. Thank you very much, 12 Barry --13 MR. UMANSKY: All right.14 MR. MARSHALL: Well done.15 CHAIR BERLYN: -- for all your hard 16 work there.17 MR. UMANSKY: All right.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Next up, 19 Consumer Group, are you ready? Ed?20 MR. BARTHOLME: This is Ed 21 Bartholme with Call for Action. I actually 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 304 wanted to get some clarification on something 1 that was just brought up during that group, as 2 it might pertain to our group.3 There was a question raised about 4 whether or not it would be possible if there 5 was further discussion on something to have a 6 vote on something in between this meeting and 7 the next meeting.8 CHAIR BERLYN: It is possible. We 9 could call a special meeting by conference call, 10 so we have our next meeting in October, but we 11 could call a conference call if we have issues 12 to be considered before then. So absolutely.13 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 14 MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott. All 15 the notice requirements in the Federal Register16 would still apply though and we would have to 17 have an open meeting here at the headquarters 18 and hopefully local people would attend. Then 19 out of towners would call in on the conference 20 line, that's the way it would have to work.21 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 305 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. 1 MR. BARTHOLME: Seeing as how that 2 is a possibility for another group --3 MR. MARSHALL: Yes.4 MR. BARTHOLME: -- I think I would 5 like to jump on the bandwagon, so to speak.6 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.7 MR. BARTHOLME: Maybe I'm trying to 8 drive attendance for the special meeting by 9 having more than one topic to discuss.10 No, we had put together a 11 recommendation that was in everybody's packet 12 today concerning interruption of wireless 13 services. There were some last minute 14 suggestions for adjustment. And, you know, 15 while everybody seems to be coming at it from 16 the same approach, I think that there is some 17 haggling on some finer points just to get 18 everybody exactly on the same page.19 So I think we would like to take 20 advantage of a little bit more time on this, 21 especially given the fact that Art Neill from 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 306 UCAN, who was the primary driving force behind 1 this, couldn't actually be here today. So 2 without his input, you know, I want to make sure 3 that we are staying true to his original intent 4 behind this recommendation.5 So I would like to table what was 6 in your packet today, look forward to an updated 7 draft coming out and hopefully we can move on 8 that at an interim meeting.9 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's fine, 10 Ed. And so that will definitely drive us to 11 a special interim meeting.12 MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. 13 CHAIR BERLYN: We now have two 14 recommendations to look forward to for that 15 meeting. So we will try and plan that as soon 16 as possible and you and Barry will give us a 17 heads up.18 MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.19 CHAIR BERLYN: We also have another 20 issue which I'll be discussing shortly after 21 all of our reports.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 307 So and you have nothing else?1 MR. BARTHOLME: No, that's all for 2 today.3 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you, 4 Ed.5 MR. BARTHOLME: Thank you.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Mark and Chris, 7 Broadband Working Group? You're going to give 8 us a third issue?9 MR. DeFALCO: Hi, Mark DeFalco. 10 There is danger in going after these first two 11 groups or these last two groups here, I think, 12 so, no. We have a recommendation to -- I don't 13 know. Does what we gave you, Scott, need to 14 be read in or not?15 MR. MARSHALL: Well, somebody has 16 -- everyone has it in their packet, so it was 17 distributed in advance.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Everyone has it. 19 Paul has it.20 MR. MARSHALL: Unless somebody 21 really has a burning desire --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 308 MR. DeFALCO: Okay. It's the 1 document that is listed "Broadband."2 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Just read the 3 headline there.4 MR. DeFALCO: Yes, "Broadband -5 GPI06-15-12." This has been circulated and I 6 don't think there is any controversy. So this 7 should be a real easy one to hopefully get 8 through.9 And then just by way of a report on 10 what we discussed at our breakout session, we 11 believe we will have another recommendation for 12 you for the October meeting. Again, I don't 13 think it will be a controversial recommendation, 14 but we will have another recommendation coming 15 for the next meeting.16 So with that, I think you are ready 17 to maybe vote this one in?18 MR. MARSHALL: We have to move the 19 recommendation and second it.20 MR. SCHROEDER: I would move 21 adoption of --22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 309 MR. MARSHALL: Before we --1 MR. SCHROEDER: -- the GPII motion.2 CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Paul.3 MR. DeFALCO: Paul moved.4 CHAIR BERLYN: Anyone second?5 MR. UMANSKY: Second.6 CHAIR BERLYN: We have a second.7 MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it?8 MR. SCHROEDER: And I may want to 9 make one comment on it as well.10 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay, Paul.11 MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it, 12 first, please?13 CHAIR BERLYN: Barry seconded.14 MR. DeFALCO: Barry, okay, good. 15 All right. Discussion?16 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, Paul 17 Schroeder.18 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Paul.19 MR. SCHROEDER: American 20 Foundation for the Blind. I think the GPII is 21 terrific. I do want to suggest adding a 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 310 sentence at the end that would go something like 1 this.2 The GPII, though it may foster 3 access, does not, and I was debating between 4 mitigate or effect, the need for implementation 5 of accessibility policies.6 The reason I raise that is GPII is 7 often talked about in these glowing almost 8 religious terms and I think it is great. I mean, 9 I don't want to minimize it, but I also don't 10 want people to get carried away to believe that 11 this is the solution that ends all need for the 12 hard work that has been done on accessibility 13 policies, because it doesn't.14 It may work. It should compliment 15 and hopefully foster those, as I said. So I 16 would propose the addition of that sentence, 17 just to make clear that that's our view.18 CHAIR BERLYN: And can you read it 19 again a little more slowly?20 MR. SCHROEDER: The GPII, though it 21 may foster access, does not mitigate the need 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 311 for implementation of accessibility policies.1 CHAIR BERLYN: Does not mitigate 2 the --3 MR. MARSHALL: Need to implement.4 MR. SCHROEDER: The need to 5 implement, would be fine, accessibility 6 policies.7 MR. MARSHALL: Accessibility 8 policies. Okay. Got it.9 MR. SCHROEDER: I guess I would move 10 that as --11 MR. MARSHALL: Move the amendment.12 MR. SCHROEDER: I don't know if I 13 can move that as a friendly-amendment, since 14 I made the motion. I suppose I can.15 CHAIR BERLYN: Chris and Mark, do 16 you accept that as a friendly-amendment?17 MR. BAKER: Yes.18 MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. If they do.19 CHAIR BERLYN: It's accepted as a 20 friendly-amendment. Sounds good.21 MR. SCHROEDER: All right. Then we 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 312 can -- any other discussion?1 CHAIR BERLYN: May foster, okay. 2 Further discussion? Mitsi?3 MS. HERRERA: Can I offer a 4 friendly-amendment to the Paul? Could you move 5 that sentence to the second -- to become the 6 second sentence and then add the word, something 7 like nonetheless or nevertheless to start the 8 third sentence?9 MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, I would have 10 no problem with that. Thank you. Good 11 suggestion.12 CHAIR BERLYN: Chris? Chris?13 MR. BAKER: Can you hear me?14 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, I can.15 MR. BAKER: Now you can. I don't 16 know. I mean, I think it's you need an 17 explanation of what it is before you start saying 18 what it does not do. That would be my only --19 I mean, I'm fine with the change. I just wonder 20 if it makes more sense, it's more readable if 21 you talk about what it does than what it doesn't 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 313 do?1 MS. HERRERA: I mean, can we make 2 it, however, the GPII does not, whatever you 3 had, mitigate the need for? It just seems odd 4 it says though it may foster access in the middle 5 of it. But it's 3:50 and it's not bad, so if 6 people are fine with it, I'm happy to withdraw 7 my friendly --8 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I think it works 9 either way. The way I'm looking at it, I don't 10 think it really -- it doesn't strike me as 11 difficult, because it's so short.12 MR. BAKER: Right, right.13 CHAIR BERLYN: So I think you get 14 the point either way, the way I look at it.15 MS. HERRERA: Then to simplify 16 things, I'll just withdraw my --17 CHAIR BERLYN: Your friendly --18 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. That works.19 MS. HERRERA: I'll withdraw it.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right. 21 So we have a friendly-amendment that has been 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 314 accepted. We have a motion and a second. 1 Further discussion? 2 Seeing none -- oh, Chris?3 MR. BAKER: I just wanted to thank 4 Clayton Lewis who sort of came up and brought 5 this idea to our attention for doing it. And 6 I didn't know he would be getting off the 7 Committee, but I want to thank him.8 CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes.9 PARTICIPANT: It would be a great 10 good-bye gift to Clayton.11 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.12 PARTICIPANT: A very appropriate 13 one.14 CHAIR BERLYN: The Clayton Lewis 15 recommendation. Okay. Thank you, Broadband 16 Working Group. Oh, call the question.17 All those in favor of this 18 recommendation say aye.19 ALL: Aye.20 CHAIR BERLYN: Opposed? 21 Abstaining? Excellent.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 315 MR. MARSHALL: No abstentions?1 CHAIR BERLYN: No abstentions. 2 This is a no abstentions day.3 Okay. Universal Service Group?4 MS. GARCIA: We really have nothing 5 to report.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Nothing to report. 7 No recommendations this time. Thank you, 8 Cecilia.9 Okay. That is it for our working 10 group reports.11 Now, we have another important item 12 that came out of our morning, this morning. 13 Sorry, Rick, I know it's challenging to see each 14 other there.15 We have another item from our 16 morning from our report for -- about the Consumer 17 Complaints process. As you heard this morning, 18 they are working on a reform of the Consumer 19 Complaints process and they are looking to the 20 Consumer Advisory Committee for some help and 21 they laid out a couple of areas where they would 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 316 like some feedback.1 So what we would like to do is to 2 setup a Task Force that would help with this 3 process over the next two months to give the 4 FCC some feedback. And hopefully it wouldn't5 require too many meetings, because we don't want 6 to add to the meetings that are going to be 7 required for this.8 But the way I see it, we probably 9 need a meeting at the beginning to sort of 10 organize ourselves, find out what exactly we 11 were going to look at and do. And then a meeting 12 after we take a look at what the FCC wants us 13 to do to get together and discuss it and provide 14 some feedback.15 We also may, as a result of this, 16 want to write up a recommendation to the FCC 17 based on our findings.18 And the perfect timing for that 19 would be our special meeting, so we would have 20 time. Perhaps the time would work out to do 21 that.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 317 So what we want to do is to setup 1 a Task Force. And one of the things that this 2 Task Force would do is to test this new -- test 3 the FCC's Consumer Complaint system. So we 4 would test it each individually, do that on our 5 own and provide feedback and perhaps they would 6 develop some sort of response form that we would 7 be able to use to give feedback on it and also 8 come up with some other ideas and feedback for 9 them.10 So there is a couple of different 11 things that we would do for them and, generally, 12 help them get on the right path with this 13 Consumer Complaint Reform.14 So what I would like to do with the 15 Task Force is have people volunteer, who are 16 willing to do this. I think it's a really good 17 opportunity for the CAC to provide direct input 18 into this process, but I want to do it just on 19 a volunteer process.20 I don't think it will be all that 21 time-consuming. As I mentioned, two meetings.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 318 I don't know whether they will be maybe 1 in-person and on the phone. We will see how 2 that works. Two meetings, possibly three, but 3 hopefully no more than two. And then the time 4 that it would take you just to really try out 5 the Consumer Complaint process.6 So Scott and I will send something 7 around in the next week or so asking for 8 volunteers to serve on this Task Force. And 9 we will try not to make it too huge, but, you 10 know, a good group who are willing to roll up 11 their sleeves and do this with us.12 So I hope that you will participate. 13 Okay. Did I miss anything?14 MR. MARSHALL: Comments from the 15 public?16 CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, we have 17 comments from the public. Did I miss anything 18 on the complaint?19 MR. MARSHALL: No, no, I think you 20 got it.21 CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good. 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 319 Finally, are there any members -- anyone from 1 the public who have any comments for the CAC? 2 I didn't get any emails, I don't think, Scott.3 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Then a motion 4 to adjourn.5 CHAIR BERLYN: So again, we are 6 going to meet in October. We will get the exact 7 date out to you as soon as we confirm 8 availability of this meeting room and make sure 9 that we don't have any conflicts with dates.10 And I think that's it. Any further 11 comments from anyone around the room?12 MR. MARSHALL: Debbie, did you 13 raise any dates with the group at all?14 CHAIR BERLYN: I didn't. Do you 15 want me -- did you check the availability for 16 that one date?17 MR. MARSHALL: Well, let's -- could 18 we run by October 19 th ?19 CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. One date that 20 we are --21 MR. MARSHALL: And get a quick 22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 320 reaction.1 CHAIR BERLYN: One day we are 2 looking at is October 19 th , which is a Friday. 3 Okay. It doesn't --4 MR. MARSHALL: Nobody is running 5 out the door screaming.6 CHAIR BERLYN: Nobody is screaming.7 MS. KEARNEY: It doesn't work for 8 me.9 CHAIR BERLYN: People are checking. 10 It doesn't work for Julie.11 MS. LEECH: That would be tight for 12 me.13 CHAIR BERLYN: It would be tight for 14 Irene. It's not good for Lise. Okay. We have 15 two. It's not good for you, Ed? Not good for 16 Ed, oh. All right. Now we've got--17 MR. MARSHALL: Three.18 CHAIR BERLYN: -- three.19 MR. MARSHALL: Okay. 20 CHAIR BERLYN: What happened with 21 the 26 th ?22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 321 MR. MARSHALL: It's not available. 1 This room is not available.2 CHAIR BERLYN: The room is not 3 available on the 26 th . Well, we will get back 4 to you. 5 MR. MARSHALL: Right.6 CHAIR BERLYN: It may have to stick 7 with the 19 th , but I'll get back to you to see 8 if the date changes. But it will be -- we are 9 hoping to stick with the month of October, so 10 that it is not too far from now. But also look 11 for that special date between now and October 12 for our special meeting.13 So do I have a motion to adjourn? 14 Oh, I don't know, I got a couple of hands on 15 that. Motion to adjourn. Do I hear a second?16 PARTICIPANT: Second.17 CHAIR BERLYN: And all those in 18 favor?19 ALL: Aye.20 CHAIR BERLYN: All right.21 MR. MARSHALL: Thanks, everybody.22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 322 CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, everyone.1 (Whereupon, the meeting was 2 concluded at 3:59 p.m.)3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10